Magi 168 Discussion/169 Predictions

[naruto-niichan]

I always though it would be called Magnostadt though. Makes way more sense than Magnoshutatt.

Well one has to wonder if this is a comparison to the "Third Reich"..... now that it was made clear that the word here is "Stadt" there's an obvious comparison with the germans who wanted the best for themselves but didn't care much about others.

And on the other hand they have the background of the Jews, getting mocked for centuries until they finally found a place they can call home. And which is threatened by other countries surrounding it. Reminds me of Israel quite a lot.

Now that's a pretty wicked combination

The war chapter is off to a decent start, can't say I'm that impressed by a little show of power by Magnoshutatt given that they're only handling fodder at the moment so not sure why there is a clamor for this as a top 10 already killing fodder will always appear impressive when they're ridiculously overpowered. I'd rather reserve judgement for the war when all hell really breaks lose, i.e. Kou empire actually joining the battlefield with their elite, because that is where the real interest lies with how Magnoshutatt will attempt to preserve itself in the face of two powers.

I'm not impressed because the magicians dominated the normal Leam soldiers. That's nothing outstanding, true. I am impressed because of two things:

1. You usally have a war starting with some leaders facing and going all "bla bla let's do that, huh that guy there looks cool" or some silly jokes/comments like this isn't even a war. Or you have lots of tactical talk. Or you have some really strong rushing in but getting dominated. Here it's neither rushed nor dragged. A short little chat between Mogamett and Scheherazade and then it's a full-on clash. What I liked here was the fast pacing and a partly different way to start the war.
   
2. The drawings. To me Shinobu managed to make this appear as a pretty huge war. I could practically feel the immense Leam masses attacking the small but powerful Magnoshutatt. Mangaka often fail the depict the whole scale of a war but Shinobu proved to have an excellent understanding of how to portray such a huge event.

Now you're definitely right that the really difficult stuff is yet to come but I think I haven't been this pleased with a "Beginning the war" chapter in other manga. Thus I really enjoyed it.

[Alibaba 4 King]

I can only imagine the nuke Magnoshutatt has in reserve would necessarily be used when both sides have practically massacred the magicians to the point of pissing off Mogamet.

I have seen a couple people talk about a giant bomb Aladdin wants to stop and this has me a bit confused. The way I understood this whole scenario the chancellor's "power" that Aladdin is trying to stop is the use of black metal vessels. After seeing what his rukh alteration Zemi is about Aladdin confronts Mogamett concerning the black djinn and moga admits to working with Isnan in order to create a "power to oppose the goi kings".

[Skyguardian]

Well one has to wonder if this is a comparison to the "Third Reich"..... now that it was made clear that the word here is "Stadt" there's an obvious comparison with the germans who wanted the best for themselves but didn't care much about others.

And on the other hand they have the background of the Jews, getting mocked for centuries until they finally found a place they can call home. And which is threatened by other countries surrounding it. Reminds me of Israel quite a lot.

Now that's a pretty wicked combination

Now that you mention it... But on the other hand they discriminate against the Goi the same way they were once discriminated.
It really is a complex situation.
I wonder what this war will "accomplish" in the end.

[relory]

Well one has to wonder if this is a comparison to the "Third Reich"..... now that it was made clear that the word here is "Stadt" there's an obvious comparison with the germans who wanted the best for themselves but didn't care much about others.

And on the other hand they have the background of the Jews, getting mocked for centuries until they finally found a place they can call home. And which is threatened by other countries surrounding it. Reminds me of Israel quite a lot.

Now that's a pretty wicked combination

It... really is But I think it has much more to do with Israel than Nazi-Germany. It's been discussed (in some other thread here :S) that the term "Goi/Goy" is an actual term used for "non-Jews".

This is a very sensitive subject (since it's so relevant to what's happening in the world right now!), but Magnostadt's resemblance to Israel is kind of creepy... Just like the magicians in Magi, the Jews were "given" their own country after centuries of discrimination, but... a Jew-state which discriminates/leave out "non-chosen" people are not much better than the discrimination they've experienced themselves.

And just like the Magicians in Magi - 99.9% Jews are really good and well-meaning people who just wants to be at peace, but then you have that Zionist-group which is promoting a flat-out racist ideology. I'm not too fond of that.

/Rant over. I really like this chapter too though I wonder what will happen next!

[Uriel]

To be more fair, it's a situation that it's not exclusive to the Palestine currents events. As far as we see, the same can be applied in every country. Yes, EVERY country.

I think the author picked that resemblance just because it's Arabic themed manga and that implies that some stuff will be highly related to some events in that area. Most of the references, though, are from early Egypt and Iran rather than Israel...But well, both nations have a tight history.

[relory]

Yeah, I don't think the current Israel/Palestine conflict will be dragged into the Magi world. When I say that this is a "sensitive" subject, it's because it's still "controversial" to critizice Israel in many countries (especially in the US); the label "anti-semitism" is just around the corner in most discussions (when it has nothing to do with "race"). And I agree that there's a certain amount of nationalism/racism(or the word I cannot remember right now) in ALL countries. However, Israel is the first country (as far as I know) to be given a specific group of people. I know I overly simplified everything, I'm tired tonight x')

I do think Magnostadt's allusion to Israel serves the purpose of having a different view on politics, which is something the mangaka really loves She brings in all these different cultures, political views and people, and it makes the story so rich. I don't think she's deliberately(sp?) trying to make an allegory and a solution to the current situation of the world IRL, but maybe we could learn a think or two anyway? Lets see what she has in store Good night everyone! xD

[Hamy]

I'm not impressed because the magicians dominated the normal Leam soldiers. That's nothing outstanding, true. I am impressed because of two things:

1. You usally have a war starting with some leaders facing and going all "bla bla let's do that, huh that guy there looks cool" or some silly jokes/comments like this isn't even a war. Or you have lots of tactical talk. Or you have some really strong rushing in but getting dominated. Here it's neither rushed nor dragged. A short little chat between Mogamett and Scheherazade and then it's a full-on clash. What I liked here was the fast pacing and a partly different way to start the war.
   
2. The drawings. To me Shinobu managed to make this appear as a pretty huge war. I could practically feel the immense Leam masses attacking the small but powerful Magnoshutatt. Mangaka often fail the depict the whole scale of a war but Shinobu proved to have an excellent understanding of how to portray such a huge event.

Now you're definitely right that the really difficult stuff is yet to come but I think I haven't been this pleased with a "Beginning the war" chapter in other manga. Thus I really enjoyed it.

Not sure about those reasons because it does sound like you may have had to wade through some mediocre handling of war but I can assure you those are probably some of the more generic handling that really aren't praiseworthy anyways, if your experience is limited to the big three then I would suggest looking through more materials. So I can't say that it goes on the level of impressive war chapter for me. Leaving Seinen publications aside if I were to look at some great Shounen war chapters first thing that comes to mind is Houshin Engi which would definitely top my list for impressive wars, from start to end (then again the manga did tend towards tactics more than anything). FMA would probably be a good recent example of impressive wars in shounen handled well.

I'm actually not too happy by the lack of tactical talk because it does make for a boring war simply because we don't see much creativity with how they plan to handle their opponents, especially in a case with a war of this scale because at the end of the day Reim is a far bigger empire than Magnoshuttat so if anything they need to plan better in such an asymmetrical war. I see that you prefer a head on clash but these sort of things tend to easily sway in the favor of who has more fire power, when in actuality you've got a shit ton more of options, and its really not the smartest strategy given Magnoshuttat's situation.

Put another way it would have been more reassuring to have seen some thought in Magnoshuttat's opening act like them manipulating the terrain to their advantage - like creating man made molts or craters to make traveling the terrain difficult - than simply seeing their top magicians strut their stuff. Or better yet attacking the first wave in the ocean before they reach landfall - the water and lightning magicians would have had a field day there. I mean you had a chapter to show the devastating tactical advantage a character like Kougyoku Ren could pose in naval warfare with her extreme magic so its kinda disappointing for me to not see even an attempt at that with several magic users manipulating their elements in a similar manner. Rather than seeing Mogamett trash talk them with "LOL its magic biatch" but I guess it kinda is the point that Mogamett is going to suffer big time for his arrogance at looking down on his opponents, because that's what it is arrogance toward the Goi. Still not as if Magi is devoid of strategy in their battles so I'll just look forward to future chapters~

I have seen a couple people talk about a giant bomb Aladdin wants to stop and this has me a bit confused. The way I understood this whole scenario the chancellor's "power" that Aladdin is trying to stop is the use of black metal vessels. After seeing what his rukh alteration Zemi is about Aladdin confronts Mogamett concerning the black djinn and moga admits to working with Isnan in order to create a "power to oppose the goi kings".

I just called it a bomb in a figurative sense, and I think many people as well when they call it a bomb or a nuke, it could be anything really, but yeah I agree high likely hood is that its black metal vessels or perhaps some penultimate weapon akin to a black metal vessel. Either way its most likely the result of their research with the black magoi seeing as we're only aware that they definitely are looking into tapping its potential but haven't actually seen the practical use of it. Given that these guys in the academy are excellent magicians and have made great strides in magical research its definitely going to be scary since they have such a stockpile of magoi (300,000 worth of it give or take accumulated over years) at hand especially compared to the pawns used by Al Sarmen which have utilized black magoi. On that note Al Sarmen if they do step in would either want that very scary weapon(s) used or take it themselves.

[naruto-niichan]

It... really is But I think it has much more to do with Israel than Nazi-Germany. It's been discussed (in some other thread here :S) that the term "Goi/Goy" is an actual term used for "non-Jews".

This is a very sensitive subject (since it's so relevant to what's happening in the world right now!), but Magnostadt's resemblance to Israel is kind of creepy... Just like the magicians in Magi, the Jews were "given" their own country after centuries of discrimination, but... a Jew-state which discriminates/leave out "non-chosen" people are not much better than the discrimination they've experienced themselves. !

Yup, I knew. You're right that they resemble the Jews a lot more but I wouldn't go as far as saying that the Jews in Isreal look down on all the non-jews surrounding them.
That's why the magicians in Magnostadt are some kind of Nazi-Jews lol (me being silly here, just ignore it).

It's a difficult topic though, I'm curious to see how Shinobu will handle it.

Not sure about those reasons because it does sound like you may have had to wade through some mediocre handling of war but I can assure you those are probably some of the more generic handling that really aren't praiseworthy anyways, if your experience is limited to the big three then I would suggest looking through more materials. So I can't say that it goes on the level of impressive war chapter for me. Leaving Seinen publications aside if I were to look at some great Shounen war chapters first thing that comes to mind is Houshin Engi which would definitely top my list for impressive wars, from start to end (then again the manga did tend towards tactics more than anything). FMA would probably be a good recent example of impressive wars in shounen handled well.

I'm actually not too happy by the lack of tactical talk because it does make for a boring war simply because we don't see much creativity with how they plan to handle their opponents, especially in a case with a war of this scale because at the end of the day Reim is a far bigger empire than Magnoshuttat so if anything they need to plan better in such an asymmetrical war. I see that you prefer a head on clash but these sort of things tend to easily sway in the favor of who has more fire power, when in actuality you've got a shit ton more of options, and its really not the smartest strategy given Magnoshuttat's situation.

Put another way it would have been more reassuring to have seen some thought in Magnoshuttat's opening act like them manipulating the terrain to their advantage - like creating man made molts or craters to make traveling the terrain difficult - than simply seeing their top magicians strut their stuff. Or better yet attacking the first wave in the ocean before they reach landfall - the water and lightning magicians would have had a field day there. I mean you had a chapter to show the devastating tactical advantage a character like Kougyoku Ren could pose in naval warfare with her extreme magic so its kinda disappointing for me to not see even an attempt at that with several magic users manipulating their elements in a similar manner. Rather than seeing Mogamett trash talk them with "LOL its magic biatch" but I guess it kinda is the point that Mogamett is going to suffer big time for his arrogance at looking down on his opponents, because that's what it is arrogance toward the Goi. Still not as if Magi is devoid of strategy in their battles so I'll just look forward to future chapters~

Always with the big walls of texts Ham

I think this is a misunderstanding. I'm well aware that FMA did pretty well with the war, others probably do too (though I haven't read Houshin Engi). The point was that I think it was a good start. Nothing too exceptional but compared to a lot of other Shounen series definitely noteworthy. I was comparing Magi with other fantasy shounen series out there (Series that are somehow similar) not everything that's out there. Expectations differ according to what you're reading and in case of Magi, mine were fulfilled. There's always room for improvement though.

Agreed about the tactics. There definitely are/were more possibilities but like you said that probably is related to Mogamett's arrogance. On the other hand we've only seen one chapter so it's impossible to judge this war. Tactics or preparations might play an important role later on, who knows.

There's probably another misunderstanding here. It's not like I prefer a head on clash, I love tactics as long as they're witty and not bland. The tactical talk I mentioned was of the second kind, something you usually see in Shounen (though it's not my intention to bash the "genre", I'm well aware there are a lot of exceptions).
We probably will have a lot more of an easier time discussing the war when there are more chapters

[lawlett-kun]

i liked the chapter. nothing out of the expected circle... I hope to see something great from these several strongest mages. on the other hand I wonder how strong scherezade really is compared to alladin and judal. cant wait!

[Mr. Arashi]

Guessing a nice plotwist about Magic nuke is a transformation of white Rukh into black. But not only life beigns, the nature itself falling to depravity, that would be super-awesome.

[frozen18ice]

anybody noticed the earring on alibaba's ear i wonder if it does something, i wonder if the monkey he got from winning the match also got a house hold vessel being it is now his pet,

[matzik1212]

Nice chap

I don't even know with who to side lol . In a way i don't like Reim and i hate Kou and the Chancellor as well but still i can understand why Magicians are doing this . Great powers are just for the use of selfish people. It's not surprising this turn of events . Plus Scheherezade kinda looks annoying

I wonder what will Aladdin do here . I mean with Alibaba in the opposing party everything will get messed up or maybe they will come to an agreement 'cause of that ? Hmm looking forward to see the next chap

[ca12nag3]

Yeah, I don't think the current Israel/Palestine conflict will be dragged into the Magi world. When I say that this is a "sensitive" subject, it's because it's still "controversial" to critizice Israel in many countries (especially in the US); the label "anti-semitism" is just around the corner in most discussions (when it has nothing to do with "race"). And I agree that there's a certain amount of nationalism/racism(or the word I cannot remember right now) in ALL countries. However, Israel is the first country (as far as I know) to be given a specific group of people. I know I overly simplified everything, I'm tired tonight x')

I do think Magnostadt's allusion to Israel serves the purpose of having a different view on politics, which is something the mangaka really loves She brings in all these different cultures, political views and people, and it makes the story so rich. I don't think she's deliberately(sp?) trying to make an allegory and a solution to the current situation of the world IRL, but maybe we could learn a think or two anyway? Lets see what she has in store Good night everyone! xD

So what part of the Magicians country is Israel?
-they use the term goi that simply means nothing more then being not-jew. Its the same as Gaijin being not-japanese. If the author tried to use it in a discriminating way? Kinda but i dont think that this represents jews more then others.

-People that are non magicians are rounded up in hidden gettos. sounds like camps of WW2
-Non magicians serve as magical fuel. sounds like the factories in camps of WW2
-Magicians feel superior to others that are not magicians. Nazi (National Socialistic) propoganda? Other then the ultra orthedox jews who DONT even believe in the state israel, no jew feels superior to another or should i say doesnt feel more superior then anyone else feels more superior to another.
-Magician state is almost being crushed between 2 superpowers. Hmm this smells like WW2 all over again. Be reminded that Israel didnt lose any wars against multiple states actually won them.

To clarify more on the state of things in Israel, and the Palestine state. The Palestine state is not Israel and doesnt belong to Israel. Sure Israel goes into it to pacify terrorists and this is debatable to what kind of effect it has and what use it has. Still this is not the same as rounding people up into underground bases and use them for magical powers.

P.s. im a jew