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Thread: Will Byakuya become a beast?

  1. #61
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    As a big fan of him, I'm one of those who thinks he has no more room to grow. All he can achieve is defeating a normal Quincy, which isn't going to be much of an achievement if he can get his Bankai back and can use it without the risk of getting it stolen.
    By normal Quincy, I mean all the SR, except Bach and Haschwald. I don't see him inferior to others already in his current state.
    Sorry, but honestly, no true fan of a character would say that character 'had no room to grow.' That statement shows a lack of respect for the character that speaks louder than words. As long as one is still living, he or she has some porential to grow. That is called 'life experience.' And when Byakuya returns, it will be something special. Unlike you, I don't think that he has to defeat the 'big bad' to make an epic return. I'm banking on Kubo to come up with something worthy of the character. A 'big fan' of Byakuya's would be looking forward to that.

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  3. #62
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Sorry, but honestly, no true fan of a character would say that character 'had no room to grow.' That statement shows a lack of respect for the character that speaks louder than words. As long as one is still living, he or she has some porential to grow. That is called 'life experience.' And when Byakuya returns, it will be something special. Unlike you, I don't think that he has to defeat the 'big bad' to make an epic return. I'm banking on Kubo to come up with something worthy of the character. A 'big fan' of Byakuya's would be looking forward to that.
    With all respect, I have to disagree with you here.

    For me, characters with room to grow are those;
    a) who haven't shown us a Bankai; Kyouraku, Ukitake, Unohana, Shinji, and the list goes on.
    b) who haven't shown the captain-level class completely; Renji.
    c) who have no honed skills apart from immense strength and can use time to improve; Kenpachi.
    d) who are yet to make an appearance of significant degree; Ryuuken.
    e) who have the potential to defeat an enemy boss; Ichigo.

    If he comes back and defeats As Nodt, I wouldn't call it worthy of his character. I'm yet to be convinced that Bankai Byakuya couldn't defeat As Nodt at that time, and it's not tough to imagine Shikai Byakuya won't be winning against him, either, so, I don't know.
    I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm not very optimistic about that.

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  5. #63
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Sorry, but honestly, no true fan of a character would say that character 'had no room to grow.' That statement shows a lack of respect for the character that speaks louder than words. As long as one is still living, he or she has some porential to grow. That is called 'life experience.' And when Byakuya returns, it will be something special. Unlike you, I don't think that he has to defeat the 'big bad' to make an epic return. I'm banking on Kubo to come up with something worthy of the character. A 'big fan' of Byakuya's would be looking forward to that.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-13.html

    Everyone has his limit. Byakuya has one as well. He was captain who showed us his bankai really quick and his feats weren't very impressive. Even with that Bankai of his.

  6. #64
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-13.html

    Everyone has his limit. Byakuya has one as well. He was captain who showed us his bankai really quick and his feats weren't very impressive. Even with that Bankai of his.
    Says another non-fan. As an actual fan of the character, I choose to believe differently. And with Byakuya in the spirit realm getting healed, I'd say that Kubo's on my side. But I guess future chapters will tell, won't they?

    ---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    With all respect, I have to disagree with you here.

    For me, characters with room to grow are those;
    a) who haven't shown us a Bankai; Kyouraku, Ukitake, Unohana, Shinji, and the list goes on.
    b) who haven't shown the captain-level class completely; Renji.
    c) who have no honed skills apart from immense strength and can use time to improve; Kenpachi.
    d) who are yet to make an appearance of significant degree; Ryuuken.
    e) who have the potential to defeat an enemy boss; Ichigo.

    If he comes back and defeats As Nodt, I wouldn't call it worthy of his character. I'm yet to be convinced that Bankai Byakuya couldn't defeat As Nodt at that time, and it's not tough to imagine Shikai Byakuya won't be winning against him, either, so, I don't know.
    I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm not very optimistic about that.
    Well, at least you didn't mistakenly call yourself a 'realist.' I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. But I think that you are missing the point. It's not all about being the star of the show. Byakuya gets little screen time, but he manages to have developed as a character anyway. And in his more recent fights, he has had to change his style of fighting. Now, he lost the bankai that has been so much a part of his arsenal. What is more compelling than griping about how he can't go any farther is to see the psychological/mental changes and appreciate him for the supporting character he is. I am sure that he will, in no way, disappoint actual fans when he returns. And if you don't like it, that's fine. Just don't try to convince others that he has nowhere to go. That is extremely shortsighted and a gross underestimation.
    Last edited by Firebird0ne; January 02, 2013 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #65
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Says another non-fan. As an actual fan of the character, I choose to believe differently. And with Byakuya in the spirit realm getting healed, I'd say that Kubo's on my side. But I guess future chapters will tell, won't they?
    I like Byakuya, but I'm not his huge fan who believes he would be on mop-the-floor-with-Aizen level after visiting Soul Palace. If you can't take the discussion you write just "Says another non-fan". You want to believe otherwise, because you wouldn't be satisfied. Kubo is on your side? Hahah, nope. Fanboys are on Byakuya's side. :P

  8. #66
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Sorry, but honestly, no true fan of a character would say that character 'had no room to grow.' That statement shows a lack of respect for the character that speaks louder than words. As long as one is still living, he or she has some porential to grow. That is called 'life experience.' And when Byakuya returns, it will be something special. Unlike you, I don't think that he has to defeat the 'big bad' to make an epic return. I'm banking on Kubo to come up with something worthy of the character. A 'big fan' of Byakuya's would be looking forward to that.
    I'm on this point. Searching too much for reason also won't lead to any good place here, this is a story, look at what we have at hand. Byakuya has been focused on a lot, hes even been "taken away" for a brief moment and people raged. Hes the only one who got handled badly by Wonderreich out of the more prominent captains (CC not included) and he also got a huge tie to the emotional spectrum of his character. Well we do have one other that got handeled, another fan favorite and hes about to learn the art of killing so another character getting a huge upgrade here.
    Kenpachi also has been a rival for Byakuya for a long time, this has been hinted at time and time again, to boost one so far over the other, I am not buying that.
    Hes a genius, he trained but nothing says he trained as hard as he could before, he just didn't need to. Now he does, to protect Rukia and all he loves (emphasis on Rukia). Byakuya has tons of room to grow if we look at what is being insinuated, that Byakuya will go trough the most epic training of all Bleach history.
    He never was perfect, might not be but he sure as hell can improve a ton. He will become a beast :P
    Could the Sage of Six Paths be named Sanada Yukimura?

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  10. #67
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    I like Byakuya, but I'm not his huge fan who believes he would be on mop-the-floor-with-Aizen level after visiting Soul Palace. If you can't take the discussion you write just "Says another non-fan". You want to believe otherwise, because you wouldn't be satisfied. Kubo is on your side? Hahah, nope. Fanboys are on Byakuya's side. :P
    Ahem...Fanboys do not write the manga. Kubo does. Fanboys did not save Byakuya. Kubo did. And he didn't do that because of fanboys either. If you look back at his battles with the Espada and with Tsukishima, you will see that Kubo is playing out psychological/mental games and taking on an altered mindset of 'battle.' I never said he would 'wipe the floor with Aizen.' I said that his return and next battles would be compelling for the psychological factor. Byakuya is loyal to Ichigo and even he doesn't expect to steal the show and kill the 'big bad.' He is a supporting character and will be of interest as such. Says a true fan of the character...

  11. #68
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by nitsthegame View Post
    sorry for late reply...:P:P

    If she would have been his zanpuktou then she wouldnt have enjoyed him fighting..... thats my point...
    Why not? Zanpakutou is a part of the wielder, it should reflect the one who carries it, like Mayuris twisted stuck up baby with poison, or Shunsuis that can't be eked out because it just doesn't want to. Or Yamas fiery very proud Zanpakutou (as hinted in non cannon material but still) and so on and so forth. Hell even Toshiros cold demeanor is reflected in his Zanpakutou.
    I might be wrong, I just hope I am right because it's always nice to land a prediction so early in the story 8)
    Could the Sage of Six Paths be named Sanada Yukimura?

  12. #69
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Ahem...Fanboys do not write the manga. Kubo does. Fanboys did not save Byakuya. Kubo did. And he didn't do that because of fanboys either.
    It is because of fanboys that Byakuya still lives and wasn't killed earlier. It is because his fanboys that Kubo is trying to do something with his character.

    Quote Quote:
    If you look back at his battles with the Espada and with Tsukishima, you will see that Kubo is playing out psychological/mental games and taking on an altered mindset of 'battle.' I never said he would 'wipe the floor with Aizen.' I said that his return and next battles would be compelling for the psychological factor. Byakuya is loyal to Ichigo and even he doesn't expect to steal the show and kill the 'big bad.' He is a supporting character and will be of interest as such. Says a true fan of the character...
    Still, there's no room for him to improve. He will get his Bankai back, he will say something about fear, and then he will beat As Nodt with his Bankai. All mindset changing didn't help him overcome fear. Now we'll see change in his attitude towards battle and fear. Nothing else. He won't get significantly stronger. He can't be. If he had a room to improve he would have improved long ago.

  13. #70
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Well, at least you didn't mistakenly call yourself a 'realist.' I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. But I think that you are missing the point. It's not all about being the star of the show. Byakuya gets little screen time, but he manages to have developed as a character anyway. And in his more recent fights, he has had to change his style of fighting. Now, he lost the bankai that has been so much a part of his arsenal. What is more compelling than griping about how he can't go any farther is to see the psychological/mental changes and appreciate him for the supporting character he is. I am sure that he will, in no way, disappoint actual fans when he returns. And if you don't like it, that's fine. Just don't try to convince others that he has nowhere to go. That is extremely shortsighted and a gross underestimation.
    Actually, I don't think Byakuya gets little screen time. He's one of the most popular characters in the manga. He's also one of the strongest. In fact, I would go as far as calling him a major supporting character with his connection to Rukia and Ichigo, as well as being a strong captain at the same time.
    I do also recall his fight with Tsukishima quite well, well enough to know that he had a change of attitude in his fighting, but let's pass.
    I'm sure he isn't going to disappoint his fans, which definitely includes me. I don't know why you are constantly trying to imply I'm not a fan of him or something, though I'm not insulted by your words by any means. It's fine.

    I wasn't really trying to convince you into anything. I just wanted to state my mere opinion and the things on which I based them, which should be fine, as you said.
    Anyway, we are defining the concept of room to improve differently, I guess. If he comes back, defeat the Quincy as he was supposed to, talk to Ichigo, Renji, Rukia and assist them mentally or whatever you'd like to add, I don't consider any of these as a room to improve.
    To me, room to improve is equal to character development in power sense and nothing else. It's my view of it.
    Besides, I'm not on the side that keeps telling Byakuya became irrelevant or useless to the plot, which is certainly not the case, for the reasons you listed. I just think he will actually be back as Byakuya, not superior to his original self.

  14. #71
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    It is because of fanboys that Byakuya still lives and wasn't killed earlier. It is because his fanboys that Kubo is trying to do something with his character.



    Still, there's no room for him to improve. He will get his Bankai back, he will say something about fear, and then he will beat As Nodt with his Bankai. All mindset changing didn't help him overcome fear. Now we'll see change in his attitude towards battle and fear. Nothing else. He won't get significantly stronger. He can't be. If he had a room to improve he would have improved long ago.
    You do realize that your response makes it sound like you did not even read my post. I made no claims to what will happen with him beyond the fact that his return will be epic in its own way and that his performance would be worthy of his role as a supporting character. There is plenty of room for Byakuya to grow, and no matter how much you hate on him, you can't erase him from the manga. Although, I'm sure you'd love to try. Dream on...

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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    You do realize that your response makes it sound like you did not even read my post. I made no claims to what will happen with him beyond the fact that his return will be epic in its own way and that his performance would be worthy of his role as a supporting character. There is plenty of room for Byakuya to grow, and no matter how much you hate on him, you can't erase him from the manga. Although, I'm sure you'd love to try. Dream on...
    Hate? And you dare to say that I didn't read your posts? You have a serious problem. Byakuya is one of those characters that doesn't serve any purpose in this manga anymore, but fear of fanboys' rage is keeping him alive.

    It was you who said, that saying "he has no room to grow" is "lack of respect" and "real fan wouldn't say that". It's Bleach, we already saw his limit, but you want to believe he will be stronger. IT IS FACT. He has NO ROOM for improvement. You want him to have. Getting bankai back is the only thing he can do.

  16. #73
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Actually, I don't think Byakuya gets little screen time. He's one of the most popular characters in the manga. He's also one of the strongest. In fact, I would go as far as calling him a major supporting character with his connection to Rukia and Ichigo, as well as being a strong captain at the same time.
    I do also recall his fight with Tsukishima quite well, well enough to know that he had a change of attitude in his fighting, but let's pass.
    I'm sure he isn't going to disappoint his fans, which definitely includes me. I don't know why you are constantly trying to imply I'm not a fan of him or something, though I'm not insulted by your words by any means. It's fine.

    I wasn't really trying to convince you into anything. I just wanted to state my mere opinion and the things on which I based them, which should be fine, as you said.
    Anyway, we are defining the concept of room to improve differently, I guess. If he comes back, defeat the Quincy as he was supposed to, talk to Ichigo, Renji, Rukia and assist them mentally or whatever you'd like to add, I don't consider any of these as a room to improve.
    To me, room to improve is equal to character development in power sense and nothing else. It's my view of it.
    Besides, I'm not on the side that keeps telling Byakuya became irrelevant or useless to the plot, which is certainly not the case, for the reasons you listed. I just think he will actually be back as Byakuya, not superior to his original self.
    I guess that's understandable. I differ a little in that I think psychological growth is a critical part of character development and advancement potential. Think of it this way. If Byakuya's fears for Rukia and Renji had not interfered with his mind, he would not have frozen up. Thus, he might have been still on his feet and fighting with some effectiveness, even without bankai. He has a wicked flash step, senka and he knows Senbonzakura's weakness. Even if As Nodt uses the bankai, Byakuya can counter with speed, getting into the 'safe zone' to attack. If he can counter the fear-inducing thorns, that is. That is why I said in an earlier post that I think it would be really compelling to see him be the first shinigami to defeat his bankai with a shikai and other abilities. That may not be a power upgrade, but it is a maturing of Byakuya as a fighter in that he will have to develop greater strategy and speed to accomplish such a thing.

    ---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Hate? And you dare to say that I didn't read your posts? You have a serious problem. Byakuya is one of those characters that doesn't serve any purpose in this manga anymore, but fear of fanboys' rage is keeping him alive.

    It was you who said, that saying "he has no room to grow" is "lack of respect" and "real fan wouldn't say that". It's Bleach, we already saw his limit, but you want to believe he will be stronger. IT IS FACT. He has NO ROOM for improvement. You want him to have. Getting bankai back is the only thing he can do.
    Boy, you really like bashing him, don't you. But as much as you do, you can't counter the fact that Byakuya is in the spirit dimension, and that Kubo will give him an epic return. You do not make the facts and everyone does not see this as you do. Byakuya is still alive, and that means he has a significant role to play, whether you like it or not.

    And for your information, strength does not simply have to do with power. It has to do with resolve, strategy skill and maturity. Byakuya serves a purpose and has room to grow, which he will do in future chapters. See you there.
    Last edited by Hakuteiken; January 02, 2013 at 01:19 PM.

  17. #74
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I guess that's understandable. I differ a little in that I think psychological growth is a critical part of character development and advancement potential. Think of it this way. If Byakuya's fears for Rukia and Renji had not interfered with his mind, he would not have frozen up. Thus, he might have been still on his feet and fighting with some effectiveness, even without bankai. He has a wicked flash step, senka and he knows Senbonzakura's weakness. Even if As Nodt uses the bankai, Byakuya can counter with speed, getting into the 'safe zone' to attack. If he can counter the fear-inducing thorns, that is. That is why I said in an earlier post that I think it would be really compelling to see him be the first shinigami to defeat his bankai with a shikai and other abilities. That may not be a power upgrade, but it is a maturing of Byakuya as a fighter in that he will have to develop greater strategy and speed to accomplish such a thing.
    I actually think if he can defeat his Bankai with his Shikai, that will really be a massive development. It looks far too early to assume it's going to happen, but it would be a shocking revelation to Quincy side. Though, I'd also love to see him defeating fear master As Nodt with his Bankai, since it's one of the most terrifying in that sense.

    ---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Hate? And you dare to say that I didn't read your posts? You have a serious problem. Byakuya is one of those characters that doesn't serve any purpose in this manga anymore, but fear of fanboys' rage is keeping him alive.

    It was you who said, that saying "he has no room to grow" is "lack of respect" and "real fan wouldn't say that". It's Bleach, we already saw his limit, but you want to believe he will be stronger. IT IS FACT. He has NO ROOM for improvement. You want him to have. Getting bankai back is the only thing he can do.
    Actually, if we judge by his limits of power, this may not be his actual limit. He is fairly young, after all.
    However, developing a new technique within the little given time to improve isn't that probable, so, we'll probably not see his improved mastery over Bankai within the story's time.

  18. #75
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    Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Boy, you really like bashing him, don't you. But as much as you do, you can't counter the fact that Byakuya is in the spirit dimension, and that Kubo will give him an epic return. You do not make the facts and everyone does not see this as you do. Byakuya is still alive, and that means he has a significant role to play, whether you like it or not.

    And for your information, strength does not simply have to do with power. It has to do with resolve, strategy skill and maturity. Byakuya serves a purpose and has room to grow, which he will do in future chapters. See you there.
    Show me, how can he improve? His mental set was perfect throughout the whole manga. He didn't lack resolve. He never needed more resolve or reason to fight. By overcoming his fear he won't improve his strategy or intelligence. And maturity? Overcoming his fear doesn't have anything to do with maturity.

    And don't speak about his "epic return" as this is a fact. I told you, beating As Nodt with little Talk No Jutsu about fear is everything he will do. And regaining bankai is his improvement. We don't even know if he is there for training. Maybe Kirinji will heal him and send him back.

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