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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
But what Exodi meant there was that he wasn't going to be able to confront a SR opponent without his Bankai, especially if the opponent is As Nodt, and uses his Bankai on Byakuya again. Other than that, I do agree with you that Byakuya is one of the most well suited captains out there to be able to hold his ground with Shikai alone.
We cannot really say he has reached his limit, either, but in less than a century, he went as far as developing some hax final technique like Hakuteiken, so, perhaps the story won't be prolonged enough for further improvement.
Without bankai, an individual like Byakuya can never hope in hell to oppose a sternritter (unless they act dumb).
A sternritter as blut which works like....
Blut Vene / Blut Arterie
50% ....... ....50%
30% ........... 70%
80%......... ... 20%
With blut vene at max power, they can tank a powerful shikai force such an enraged & pissed off Yama's nuke, Yama's slash, Survived being in Zanka No Tachi west, Survive a Massive GT to the neck (though Vollstandig is activated) & etc. It's an extreme defence that enables them to tank a bankai's destructive force.
But with Blut Vene at full power (100%) they can't switch over to Blut Arterie which enables them to greatly damage even a bankai.
In Byakuya's case, HE DOESN'T HAVE A BANKAI so the sternritters can enjoy BV at full power all them & he wouldn't be able to do shit (literally).
I haven't even included Vollstandig with grants a greater boost that the normal bankai itself. It pushes the spiritual body to the absolute MAX.
A weak & undeveloped Uryu (not even vc lvl at the time) used Letzt Stil (the outdated, weaker & less sustainable verson of Vollstandig) & crippled a captain in BANKAI MODE with a single holy arrow. He completely decimated his bankai by literally spiting it in half.
Kirge, a captain lvl developed quincy (realising he was no match for Ichigo without Vollstandig & especially after Bach told him to go all out against him) used Vollstandig & his speed & power increased explanatory his power, speed & defence.
He was capable of not only absorbing particules (that's all Uryu could do) but also an entire being itself.
Allon was a victim of this, Orihime, Chad, Sunsun & Rose were all next (in fact they were just about to be absorbed) but Ichigo (the most badass shinigami) saved their asses.
Byakuya will need his bankai when he faces As Nodt again, but I would love to see him tweak the bugger's nose and (like I said in another post) be the first to beat his own bankai with a shikai. I would roll over and die laughing. XD
A woman who ranted on continuously about her power
A big ape the screamed sonic boom in short range
A moron that thought it was a good idea to copy a crazy Kenpachi
They were three "naive" (in fact the entire sternriters were "naive") morons who should have used their own powers with caution instead of acting carelessly.
Look who is assuming too much now. Loyd fought Kenpachi & he copied his fighting style (stupid mistake).
Royd fought Yamamoto & was the more careful of the two (& actually copied a better fighter's memories, Juha Bach).
Komamura lost a fight against who? Oh yes Aizen & enhanced Tousen so try again.
Rukai never held her own.
Toshiro's bankai was stolen & it was made useless by Yama so try again.
AND YOU ARE FORGETTING ONE IMPORTANT THING. Where is Vollstandig is your post? Oh right you never mentioned it
Komamura: Better question...who the heck has that guy BEATEN? He needed Hisagi's help to beat Tousen! I don't remember him ever not getting his butt kicked.
Hitsugaya: There was still time for his opponent to pull out Vollstandig or something before Yama-jii lit up his bankai and dried things up. So YOU TRy AGAIN!
Rukia was fighting one of the SR's until after Byakuya fell. Look back and see.
2) The opponent used Toshiro's power which was rendered useless by Yamamoto & nothing else happend (the invasion occured in a flash).
3) Read the manga for yourself. http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...4-page-13.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...4-page-17.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...05-page-8.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...05-page-9.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-10.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...07-page-5.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...07-page-6.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...7-page-10.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...7-page-11.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...7-page-12.html
[QUOTE=Kay3795;3215796]1)2) The opponent used Toshiro's power which was rendered useless by Yamamoto & nothing else happend (the invasion occured in a flash).QUOTE]
Eh, I think it was a little more than a flash, kiddo. More like a flash and several loud bangs...and more than enough time for Hitsugaya's opponent to power up, since As Nodt had time to start fighting Renji, have a conversation with Byakuya, then go on to beat the living hell out of him. There was time...
Just stop. Komamura had 4 fights. One against a fraccon which he one-shotted, another against Aizen who is known for one-shotting & the last against an enhanced resurreccion (complete unlike the failed Vizards) wielding, shinigami bankai wielding opponent who was captain lvl before achieving those upgrades. TRY AGAIN
I did & she wasn't fighting them. They merely appeared & Rukai was about to fight, then Byakuya "supposely died", then Rukai turned her back & was one-shotted. That's all that happend.
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---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------
And please, everyone, get back on topic. Tons of threads tend to be filled with same kind of discussions.
Last edited by Hakuteiken; December 23, 2012 at 07:12 PM.
First of all, there is no need for you to be cocky and rude, Kay. We are allowed to have different opinions. Secondly, Soul Society was not trashed in a few minutes. Get real! It took time for the captains just to get to the battle site, then Renji had time to fight a bit before Byakuya even showed up. There was a lot of talk and some fighting too. It definitely wasn't over in a few minutes. That's just ridiculous. Third, Komamura has been losing battles in and out of canon since the start of Bleach, so stop focusing only on the last little battle with Aizen. And finally, Rukia's battle was not shown, but that doesn't mean she stood there picking her nose while Renji and Byakuya were fighting As Nodt. As I said, there was time. And her opponent wasn't just going to stand there as fan himself while she was looking around...sheesh!
lol, and getting back to the topic, Byakuya is ALREADY a beast and will only get more beastly.
Last edited by Firebird0ne; December 23, 2012 at 07:11 PM.
It works the same way as the quincy Vollstandig. It died due to it being a relic (incomplete object) fragile but it is still the same tech in the sense that it PUSHES THE SPIRIT TO THE VERY LIMIT/MAXIMUM.
In fact if anything it is stronger being able to push Ichigo to an extent & being able to absorb captain lvl opponents. Juha made this modification.
---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------
Komamura lost to Aizen twice & lost to an enhance Tousen. What point did you make extactly? That he always loses? You must have igonored his opponents then.
Rukai was one shotted. She didn't battle (read the manga -_-)
---------- Post added at 12:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
Nowhere does it say that the entire battle happened in about 16 minutes. You are inferring that, not necessarily correctly from a 'sound bite.' Don't read too much into that. It did not say that the whole battle took that anount of time, only that 1000 shinigamis died in that time. The whole conflict took longer.
No one's saying that the quincy's aren't powerful, but read the writing on the wall. Their 'trump card' is stealing bankai and using it against the shinigamis. They didn't attack until they had the medallions, which is an ADMISSION that their own powers weren't enough to win.
Name a few opponents that Komamura has beaten.
And don't assume you know what Rukia was doing. Even if the battle took only 16 minutes, she was DOING SOMETHING during that time, not just standing there staring at her opponent. Why don't you try standing there for that long and see how long it really is, then do that while watching a battle on TV. There is NO WAY that she was standing there all that time.
And finally, Kubo likes to surprise us. Since he went to the trouble of having As Nodt mock Byakuya about not being able to beat a bankai with a shikai, I just think it would be funny and very much in Byakuya's character to try to find a way to defeat him without bankai, although I admit I don't know how he would do that. But it's fun to imagine anyway.
Last edited by Firebird0ne; December 23, 2012 at 07:54 PM.
1000 shinigami died in 7 MINS NOT 16 MINS
You are implying they ain't powerful. Their trump card is Vollstandig. Quincy's holy form, Quincies' final form (which works like the FGT). It pushes the spiritual power to the very max (it's power boost is greater than the normal bankai itself).
I'm gonna smack you the next time you mention Komamura. Not only did he fight a complete enhance Tousen (who is probably superior to all captains except Yama), he also fought Aizen.
Yes she was running to the battlefield with her sword draw out & she got distracted by Byakuya's supposely death then got one-shotted by the enemy (read the manga).
Byakuya knew he needed bankai (a bankai gives 5 to 10 boost in power) to match As Nodt (this was said by many captains as well). Ok supposedly he matched As Nodt's with bankai, As Nodt still has VOLLSTANDIG (the trump card of the quincies that pushes the spiritual power to the very limit, a trump card that exceeds bankai). What is Byakuya gonna do then?
That's why I said, "Unless Byakuya becomes Ichigo (or atleast a main character like Uryu or Chad or Orihime), it ain't happening." He doesn't have the time to train properly either (shinigami need YEARS for significant growth).
Last edited by Kay3795; December 23, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
First of all, Byakuya is a main character, but because of his popularity, rather than his amount of screen time. Secondly, I read the manga. I just understand it differently than you do. I read different meaning into it, which is very natural, considering that because it is a 'comic' much is not directly stated and has to be interpreted. You simply interpret the pieces differently than me. But don't have a conniption about it. You are taking this way too seriously. I will not waste any more of my time arguing with someone who clearly can't stand to accept another person's right to different interpretation. Grow up. Really.
In any case, this thread is not about your love of quincys and your desperate attempts to say they could trash SS without the bankai stealing. Read again. You will see that they waited to attack until they could steal bankai. They are afraid of the bankai, which means Vollstandig is not the trump card. If it was, then As Nodt wouldn't have bothered to use Byakuya's bankai. He would have used that power instead. Live with it.