Will Byakuya become a beast?

[Exodi]

Byakuya is probably a much more versatile fighter than someone like As Nodt can only dream to be. Him getting his Bankai stolen was a sacrificial move from his perspective. Since he only expected a seal, he thought they could figure out and counter the Bankai sealing somehow with Renji's Bankai alone. He isn't useless.
But what Exodi meant there was that he wasn't going to be able to confront a SR opponent without his Bankai, especially if the opponent is As Nodt, and uses his Bankai on Byakuya again. Other than that, I do agree with you that Byakuya is one of the most well suited captains out there to be able to hold his ground with Shikai alone.

We cannot really say he has reached his limit, either, but in less than a century, he went as far as developing some hax final technique like Hakuteiken, so, perhaps the story won't be prolonged enough for further improvement.

While saying Byakuya would be useless was a little much, I do think that he has less of a place in battle without his bankai. The Sternritter have shown that they aren't just plain fodder.

[kkck]

If he died and was then revived back with some sort of Orihimesque power (like many people expecting Minazuki to revive back everyone), it would be a cheap trick and it would be pointless if he stayed at the level he was.
Now, I cannot see any difference between Byakuya and any other character. Aside from Captain-Commander, everyone is coming back and most of them had either difficulty in dealing with their opponents or were defeated. And they aren't going to be receiving any power-ups (Bankai enabling aside), so, I don't see a reason for Byakuya to be powered up right now. If there is a method that magically powers up people aside from healing them to 100% health, why could it be that it's only applied to four people and not the entire Gotei 13?

Well, the issue in this case would be that plot wise as far as we saw the captains do not particularly need a powerup. The captains were in a bad position during the war because they were unable to use bankai, their power was limited to a fraction of it, while the stern rittern could use all of their power. An actual power boost becomes even more unnecessary plotwise when you consider just how many allies SS has. Currently there are 12 captains, orihime, chad, ishin, urahara, tessai, yoruichi, lisa, hiyori, love, rose, hachigen, the royal guards, kukaku, ganju and the fullbringers. Even if there are over 20 stern rittern left and juhabach the numbers actually fit for a nice confrontation so far. The issue at hand as far as the shinigami allies are concerned is not in itself getting a power boost but rather being able to use their full power in battle.

The issue at hand as far as a potential powerup for the guys at the royal palace right now is that there is no reason in particular for all of them to not get exactly the same benefits from the food (except for ichigo who is the one with the greater amount of actually dormant power contrary to renji, rukia and byakuya who do not have any dormant power, they have to literally become stronger the standard way). All of them went through the spring treatment, they will all likely get the special food and they will all perhaps get their zampakutos back into proper shape (ichigo and renji have their bankais broken and we have seen byakuya's sealed blade and rukia's shikai get broken once and there is still the possibility that byakuya's hakuteiken got some long term damage which can be repaired by nimaiya now even if his bankai is no available right now). There is also the consideration that while byakuya is a captain level shinigami he is still comparatively young by shinigami standards, there is no reason for him to not be able to grow stronger.

Note that I did not say I thought any of them would be going through a significant power boost though. I just think that all of them will enjoy the same comparative fruits from being properly healed and eaten kirio's food.

Taking in consideration how kirio's food works I don't think actually putting the gotei 13 through her food is an option at this point. The method she uses to feed people is extreme to the point of making her skinny overnight. If she depletes her reiatsu at that rate then obviously feeding more people puts a much greater strain on her body. Feeding the entire gotei 13 has the implication that she has to have enough reiatsu to do so. If just two people got her that thin then I can't imagine her doing more than a few at a time. Then we have to consider how long it takes for her to get her fat back. In all likelihood 4 people is just about as many as she can handle at a time, the number was likely not random (and coincidentally it would also be the number of royal guards she would have to feed at a time if she ever does that).

[Hakuteiken]

While saying Byakuya would be useless was a little much, I do think that he has less of a place in battle without his bankai. The Sternritter have shown that they aren't just plain fodder.

Byakuya said SR aren't opponents that can be defeated without Bankai, too.
Maybe after Urahara and Mayuri somehow counters the medallion to prevent Bankai stealing, he could devise a plan and use Renji's Bankai power to get his own back. He is a better tactician than the most.

[Kay3795]

First of all, Byakuya is a main character, but because of his popularity, rather than his amount of screen time. Secondly, I read the manga. I just understand it differently than you do. I read different meaning into it, which is very natural, considering that because it is a 'comic' much is not directly stated and has to be interpreted. You simply interpret the pieces differently than me. But don't have a conniption about it. You are taking this way too seriously. I will not waste any more of my time arguing with someone who clearly can't stand to accept another person's right to different interpretation. Grow up. Really.

In any case, this thread is not about your love of quincys and your desperate attempts to say they could trash SS without the bankai stealing. Read again. You will see that they waited to attack until they could steal bankai. They are afraid of the bankai, which means Vollstandig is not the trump card. If it was, then As Nodt wouldn't have bothered to use Byakuya's bankai. He would have used that power instead. Live with it.

Read the manga again.
Not only are you making mistakes with your words you are are also not admitting the fact that the invasion literally ended in a few mins. This happend to show the overwhelming ruthlessness & power of the quincies incomparation to SS. It says it in the manga itself "above captain class fighters". You simple should accept that instead of arguing the pointless.

My love for the quincies? Don't make me laugh. I'm showing you what happend in the manga. The sternritters remained ruthless killers & continuously trained under his majesty, Juha Bach while Yama & the new breed of shinigamis gone soft. The invasion was a massacre not a war.

Why did they steal bankai? How can you ask such a stupid question? Because they can, because it eases the strain because it reduces the effort, because it cripples their enemies, because it increases their power. You want more?

[Hakuteiken]

Well, the issue in this case would be that plot wise as far as we saw the captains do not particularly need a powerup. The captains were in a bad position during the war because they were unable to use bankai, their power was limited to a fraction of it, while the stern rittern could use all of their power. An actual power boost becomes even more unnecessary plotwise when you consider just how many allies SS has. Currently there are 12 captains, orihime, chad, ishin, urahara, tessai, yoruichi, lisa, hiyori, love, rose, hachigen, the royal guards, kukaku, ganju and the fullbringers. Even if there are over 20 stern rittern left and juhabach the numbers actually fit for a nice confrontation so far. The issue at hand as far as the shinigami allies are concerned is not in itself getting a power boost but rather being able to use their full power in battle.

Exactly what I'm thinking here.
Bankai enabling is enough of a power up.

The issue at hand as far as a potential powerup for the guys at the royal palace right now is that there is no reason in particular for all of them to not get exactly the same benefits from the food (except for ichigo who is the one with the greater amount of actually dormant power contrary to renji, rukia and byakuya who do not have any dormant power, they have to literally become stronger the standard way). All of them went through the spring treatment, they will all likely get the special food and they will all perhaps get their zampakutos back into proper shape (ichigo and renji have their bankais broken and we have seen byakuya's sealed blade and rukia's shikai get broken once and there is still the possibility that byakuya's hakuteiken got some long term damage which can be repaired by nimaiya now even if his bankai is no available right now). There is also the consideration that while byakuya is a captain level shinigami he is still comparatively young by shinigami standards, there is no reason for him to not be able to grow stronger.

Actually, I expect the food expect to vanish by the next stage. I don't know what's going to happen next, but it looks like Nimaiya has some violent way of doing things, a reminiscent quality of Mayuri (I wonder if this Nimaiya guy also have met Mayuri in person, too).
I also expect Byakuya to get stronger by time, since he probably hasn't hit his ceiling yet. His efficiency in using his skills could only go upwards from now on, but I doubt we will get to see such an improvement in short term.

Taking in consideration how kirio's food works I don't think actually putting the gotei 13 through her food is an option at this point. The method she uses to feed people is extreme to the point of making her skinny overnight. If she depletes her reiatsu at that rate then obviously feeding more people puts a much greater strain on her body. Feeding the entire gotei 13 has the implication that she has to have enough reiatsu to do so. If just two people got her that thin then I can't imagine her doing more than a few at a time. Then we have to consider how long it takes for her to get her fat back. In all likelihood 4 people is just about as many as she can handle at a time, the number was likely not random (and coincidentally it would also be the number of royal guards she would have to feed at a time if she ever does that).

I can agree with this more or less, but if that was the case, I'd not be picking two vice-captains for the four man group, I guess, as injured as they could be.
Moreover, there was also Tenjiro's healing pond, which seemingly didn't have such a restriction, but they weren't taken to there, either.
I don't know. There are some holes surrounding the Guards at the moment (like on who they are using these abilities unless a battle situation emerges). We will have to wait and see to get clarified.

[Kay3795]

Well, the issue in this case would be that plot wise as far as we saw the captains do not particularly need a powerup. The captains were in a bad position during the war because they were unable to use bankai, their power was limited to a fraction of it, while the stern rittern could use all of their power. An actual power boost becomes even more unnecessary plotwise when you consider just how many allies SS has. Currently there are 12 captains, orihime, chad, ishin, urahara, tessai, yoruichi, lisa, hiyori, love, rose, hachigen, the royal guards, kukaku, ganju and the fullbringers. Even if there are over 20 stern rittern left and juhabach the numbers actually fit for a nice confrontation so far. The issue at hand as far as the shinigami allies are concerned is not in itself getting a power boost but rather being able to use their full power in battle.

The issue at hand as far as a potential powerup for the guys at the royal palace right now is that there is no reason in particular for all of them to not get exactly the same benefits from the food (except for ichigo who is the one with the greater amount of actually dormant power contrary to renji, rukia and byakuya who do not have any dormant power, they have to literally become stronger the standard way). All of them went through the spring treatment, they will all likely get the special food and they will all perhaps get their zampakutos back into proper shape (ichigo and renji have their bankais broken and we have seen byakuya's sealed blade and rukia's shikai get broken once and there is still the possibility that byakuya's hakuteiken got some long term damage which can be repaired by nimaiya now even if his bankai is no available right now). There is also the consideration that while byakuya is a captain level shinigami he is still comparatively young by shinigami standards, there is no reason for him to not be able to grow stronger.

Note that I did not say I thought any of them would be going through a significant power boost though. I just think that all of them will enjoy the same comparative fruits from being properly healed and eaten kirio's food.

Taking in consideration how kirio's food works I don't think actually putting the gotei 13 through her food is an option at this point. The method she uses to feed people is extreme to the point of making her skinny overnight. If she depletes her reiatsu at that rate then obviously feeding more people puts a much greater strain on her body. Feeding the entire gotei 13 has the implication that she has to have enough reiatsu to do so. If just two people got her that thin then I can't imagine her doing more than a few at a time. Then we have to consider how long it takes for her to get her fat back. In all likelihood 4 people is just about as many as she can handle at a time, the number was likely not random (and coincidentally it would also be the number of royal guards she would have to feed at a time if she ever does that).

Take into consideration that even most captains (if not all) of the gote1 13 haven't even stepped into the palace & take into consideration that the special treatment the main characters are getting is mostly because of Ichigo himself (not being a regularly) but most importantly take into consideration that Kirio is basically just setting them up for the next training section (otherwise the'll "die like dogs") so her means of granting reiatsu is temporally as well as that means staying within the royal dimensions.

Also take into consideration that Juha Bach doesn't just sit down, he is a man exemplifying effective action. I imagine he in at Vandenreich in a secret war room with his fellow sternritters planning for the royal guards "let's retreat & wait for them to assemble". The royals don't have the time to babysit SS concerning their work (remeber they stay objective).

[kkck]

Actually, I expect the food expect to vanish by the next stage. I don't know what's going to happen next, but it looks like Nimaiya has some violent way of doing things, a reminiscent quality of Mayuri (I wonder if this Nimaiya guy also have met Mayuri in person, too).
I also expect Byakuya to get stronger by time, since he probably hasn't hit his ceiling yet. His efficiency in using his skills could only go upwards from now on, but I doubt we will get to see such an improvement in short term.



I can agree with this more or less, but if that was the case, I'd not be picking two vice-captains for the four man group, I guess, as injured as they could be.
Moreover, there was also Tenjiro's healing pond, which seemingly didn't have such a restriction, but they weren't taken to there, either.
I don't know. There are some holes surrounding the Guards at the moment (like on who they are using these abilities unless a battle situation emerges). We will have to wait and see to get clarified.

If the next stage involves repairing zampakutos I would have my doubts about the violence coming from nimaiya. Most of what we have seen regarding zampakuto growth comes from ichigo however I would think that other than speed it works the same for other shinigami. The first time ichigo met zangetsu he was about to die, the next one he was in a duel against kenpachi, the next was during bankai training.... Then he had his encounters with shirosaki and acquiring FGT was rather hazardous. Getting bankai involves actually beating the shit out of your zampakuto.... If we are talking about repairing broken bankai, which is apparently just about impossible based on what we have seen then it is very likely the process itself will involve some inner world action and ass kicking. I guess its just a crackpot theory at this stage but I cannot imagine zampakuto repairs at this stage to be a simple technique used on the broken swords. Breaking a bankai (by the definition of what a bankai and a zampakuto are) causes intrinsic damage to the soul of the user (hence the permanent thing) so in this particular case repairing a bankai is perhaps repairing the soul of the user itself more than just physically repairing the zampakuto (which as we heard about ikkaku yields terrible results). I think bankai repairing will end up being more of a joint effort. On the outside we have nimaiya forcing the bankais together once again and on the inside we have renji and ichigo facing their souls and doing something (perhaps beat them up once again).

As for the VCs taken I would think that the main reason to take them is because of ichigo and the fact that they would be the more injured ones out there. There would be no reason to take the other captains as they were simply not hurt enough, unohana has the means to deal with them. Neither rukia nor renji are strong by captain standards but they are still an important part of the leadership of the squads as VCs and renji is a bankai user who SS cannot afford to not have. Healing as far as kirinji is concerned is about removing foreign reiatsu from the body of the user so perhaps the issue to consider here as far as kenpachi goes is that he has enough reiatsu of his own to recover on his own. Kenpachi is almost certainly the captain with highest amount of reiatsu in the current gotei 13, it makes sense that he would be able to ward of enemy reiatsu from his body on his own better than other captains. Perhaps a part of the reason kenpachi is able to tolerate wounds to the extent he can is because of his massive reiatsu. Its so massive that reiatsu that would normally stay to hurt him (like it apparently did to byakuya) is simply crushed by his own thus why he would not need kirinji's pools. Of course kenpachi does not actually regenerate however just pushing out enemy reiatsu from his body with his own overwhelming reiatsu could indeed result in a better ability to deal with injuries. In this regard the scenario would be that a wound dealt by juhabach would be more serious than if the exact same wound was dealt by an ordinary captain level enemy.

[Sanadan]

I am thinking the next chapter will give the greatest hint of what is planned for Byakuya. What the Zanpakutou training does is really key for if he gets a power up, while I still think hes overall skills will improve as a result of the training. It just makes sense to not expect the bankai to return and thus upping your other skills in order to become useful.

Question, does the Shikai still work when the Bankai is stolen (or sealed or w/e)

[Firebird0ne]

I am thinking the next chapter will give the greatest hint of what is planned for Byakuya. What the Zanpakutou training does is really key for if he gets a power up, while I still think hes overall skills will improve as a result of the training. It just makes sense to not expect the bankai to return and thus upping your other skills in order to become useful.

Question, does the Shikai still work when the Bankai is stolen (or sealed or w/e)

Yes, the shikai still works after the bankai is stolen. In fact, the second time As Nodt hit Byakuya with his own bankai, it was because Byakuya saw Renji attacking the quincy and used his shikai to attack also. What seems to be lost is the connection with the blade's 'soul' which is necessary for the manifestation of bankai.

[Sanadan]

Thank you very much. So we do have possible improvement in every sense except for Bankai, which may also work if the medallions have a copy+sealing effect.

[themincookie]

If simply stealing a captains Bankai renders them useless then what would happen to all the other captains who had their's stolen as well? The only reason why Byakuya is currently down and out is because he sustained the most if not worst (with the exception of Zaraki and Yamamoto of course) injuries out of all the captains who had their Bankai stolen.

Also, I don't think it's be possible for him to return to full capacity, let alone being able to wield his sword again because:

We watched the hilt of his blade shatter; there had to be a reason why Tite Kubo chose to so blatantly show his sword shattering. No matter how his physical body heals; the chance of him ever regaining his original sword seems to be slim, unless Tite pulls another trick out of the bag.

[benelori]

He will become a beast...and I have 2 reasons for saying this...it seems like Kubo has devoted a bit of attention to Byakuya in these arcs...

1. He made him use hand to hand combat and he made him reach a state of mind where he enjoys combat for a bit...so that's just another thing in his arsenal and a new state of mind that he can reach to annihilate his opponents...

2. He made him face his worst fears and be defeated by them...not to mention that it was a defeat that made him ask for Ichigo's help(after he said that Ichigo could not be of use in Hueco Mundo)...and now he will recover from that ordeal...

So in terms of having the right mindset to tear his opponents to pieces I think he is on the right track...and we know that a right mindset is useful in combat...and he definitely has the skillset(now having hand to hand combat as well) to be considered a beast...

What of his Zanpaktou? Well first of all I think someone will devise a method to break and/or guard against the effects of the quincy medallion...and second, even Byakuya might get help from the Afro Royal Guard...

So in the end I think he will end up as a beast...I think Kubo has shown us that Byakuya is open to development, so I'm hoping for a lot!

[Hakuteiken]

If simply stealing a captains Bankai renders them useless then what would happen to all the other captains who had their's stolen as well? The only reason why Byakuya is currently down and out is because he sustained the most if not worst (with the exception of Zaraki and Yamamoto of course) injuries out of all the captains who had their Bankai stolen.

Also, I don't think it's be possible for him to return to full capacity, let alone being able to wield his sword again because:

We watched the hilt of his blade shatter; there had to be a reason why Tite Kubo chose to so blatantly show his sword shattering. No matter how his physical body heals; the chance of him ever regaining his original sword seems to be slim, unless Tite pulls another trick out of the bag.

That was his Shikai that has been shattered. Shikai can be broken and then it regains its own form by time, unlike Bankai.
The shattering of his Shikai was an indication of his weakened reiatsu at that point, I suppose. Perhaps like Bankai canceling itself on its own without the user intending to do so, when the wielder is close to death.

[BASED Shinigami]

No, I don't think he will become a beast.

Byakuya is not the same person he was before that battle with the Stern Ritter. His mental psyche has been torn to shreds for a number of reasons. He failed to defeat his adversary. He failed to protect Soul Society. He failed to protect the one person who means everything in the world to him. We knew this wasn't the same Byakuya we had grown to love and care about throughout the story when he asked Ichigo to succeed where he had failed. At this point he was a physically and mentally broken man. This is something we have never seen before happen to the prideful warrior Byakuya. I think it's absurd to believe he'll hop right back in battle with a head full of confidence. Human nature will propel him to question and most likely doubt himself as he slowly recovers. The right state of mind in battle can make all the difference as we've seen numerous times throughout the story. There's no guarantee he'll fully recover from the damage done to his mental psyche. He may never be the same again. If he does not have enough conviction in his heart or if he does not have the resiliency to bounce back from his colossal failure, he will not prove to be a great asset to the Shinigami in their war against the Quincys.

Secondly, there's the issue of his stolen Bankai. I suspect Byakuya will return to normal strength in time thanks largely in part to the Royal Guards abilities. He may be physically healed in time, but that doesn't change the fact he is a shell of his former self without the power of his Bankai. That's even more added reason why he should doubt his abilities when he engages in battle once again with the Quincys, and if he's questioning himself that's definitely not the right state of mind he needs to emerge victorious in battle. As the last battle proved Byakuya will not be strong enough to defeat the Stern Ritter with Shikai alone or any mid-level captain for that matter (I'm excluding the more powerful older captains). Unless the geniuses of Soul Society can devise a strategy that enables the captains to retrieve their stolen Bankai's from the Quincy's in the next battle it will be a massacre just like last time. Byakuya will find himself in a similar situation where his own power will be used against him, and there will be nothing he can do about it as he is beaten to a bloody pulp once again.

I never really thought of Byakuya as a beast at least not after the rescue Rukia arc. He's certainly has room to grow and get stronger no one is questioning that. He can become a beast after he gets his Bankai back, and does some extreme training to strengthen his abilities. Until then he is a nobody to me, and I still wonder why Kubo decided to keep in him alive after his supposed departure.

[Kay3795]

No, I don't think he will become a beast.

Byakuya is not the same person he was before that battle with the Stern Ritter. His mental psyche has been torn to shreds for a number of reasons. He failed to defeat his adversary. He failed to protect Soul Society. He failed to protect the one person who means everything in the world to him. We knew this wasn't the same Byakuya we had grown to love and care about throughout the story when he asked Ichigo to succeed where he had failed. At this point he was a physically and mentally broken man. This is something we have never seen before happen to the prideful warrior Byakuya. I think it's absurd to believe he'll hop right back in battle with a head full of confidence. Human nature will propel him to question and most likely doubt himself as he slowly recovers. The right state of mind in battle can make all the difference as we've seen numerous times throughout the story. There's no guarantee he'll fully recover from the damage done to his mental psyche. He may never be the same again. If he does not have enough conviction in his heart or if he does not have the resiliency to bounce back from his colossal failure, he will not prove to be a great asset to the Shinigami in their war against the Quincys.

Secondly, there's the issue of his stolen Bankai. I suspect Byakuya will return to normal strength in time thanks largely in part to the Royal Guards abilities. He may be physically healed in time, but that doesn't change the fact he is a shell of his former self without the power of his Bankai. That's even more added reason why he should doubt his abilities when he engages in battle once again with the Quincys, and if he's questioning himself that's definitely not the right state of mind he needs to emerge victorious in battle. As the last battle proved Byakuya will not be strong enough to defeat the Stern Ritter with Shikai alone or any mid-level captain for that matter (I'm excluding the more powerful older captains). Unless the geniuses of Soul Society can devise a strategy that enables the captains to retrieve their stolen Bankai's from the Quincy's in the next battle it will be a massacre just like last time. Byakuya will find himself in a similar situation where his own power will be used against him, and there will be nothing he can do about it as he is beaten to a bloody pulp once again.

I never really thought of Byakuya as a beast at least not after the rescue Rukia arc. He's certainly has room to grow and get stronger no one is questioning that. He can become a beast after he gets his Bankai back, and does some extreme training to strengthen his abilities. Until then he is a nobody to me, and I still wonder why Kubo decided to keep in him alive after his supposed departure.

That's would be a shame but I have a feeling that Ichigo will somehow be the one to remind him how to fight (not physically of course haha).

Like I said before, Ichigo has gone through some of the most messed of shit in the world & he conquered them. Why? Because 'he had to' otherwise he wouldn't protect those he wanted to protect. Byakuya is the head of the Kuchiki family, he must for their sake, for his surbordinates sake & for their familes sake, for the sake of all who trust him & rely on him, 'he must protect' (who else says these statements... Ichigo).

When Byakuya was crushed by As Nodt, he experencied the state of being completely powerless (which was something he hadn't experienced in a very long while). He forgotten how to overcome that but let me tell you this, if Ichigo (the recent one) were to be hit by As Nodt's fear ability, he would simply laugh it off because he constantly goes through unbearable situations & continuously conquered them & that's because he is of the mindset that 'if I despair, they will die'.

Ichigo would have conquered As Nodt's ability with his own fear. The fear of not being able to protect those he want to protect. That is Ichigo's greatest fear but it's also his greatest strength.

I think Byakuya will get back his Bankai (without it he really can't hope to oppose a sternritter one on one) but this time he will be of a different mindset (You know how Ichigo was like when he arrived at chapter 512, clenching his fist, looking firm & with that rage, I picture Byakuya like that after he had reaffirm who he is & what he is fighting for).
It's not going to be easy but I think it will be done.

This recent chapters is really going to develop his character (I just know it). He is my fav captain in the entire gote1 13 afterall so I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Also Byakuya doesn't have to defeat a sternritter by himself to prove he is a beast (I guess we may have different opinions as to who a beast is). IMO a beast is a fearless individual in all situations inspite of what the difficulty, a beast fears nothing. The sternritters are ruthless individuals that are clearly "above captain class" fighters with some every haxx abilities. Vollstandig is one ability that works similarly to FGT in the sense that it pushes the spirual power to the very max. When the sternritters use such tech, they surpass most strong individuals (Vollstandig's boost is greater than bankai itself). This arc isn't about a single individual acting alone, they must all work together to fight the enemy.