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Thread: Gun control

  1. #31
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Gun control

    I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who believe in gun freedom will buy guns for their kids and give it to them. we've had at least two instances of that.

    ---------- Post added at 06:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...usaolp00000003



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  2. #32
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Drmke's Avatar
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    Re: Gun control

    I dunno, I've seen the stories but I know very few people who I think would GIVE their kid a gun. Maybe let them shoot one under supervision at a target or something...but that's an entirely different thing.


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  3. #33
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    Re: Gun control

    To be honest, with the way people act, and the stupidity of parents nowadays, I'm not shocked if they willingly give and teach their kids ways of guns.
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  4. #34
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Gun control

    this is how i stand on it

    it should be a states right to decide about gun control, that way if people dont want to live in a gun control state, they can move to a different state

    the united states has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the world, but some areas of the country are very strict

    i dont think guns cause all of the problems people say they do, and i do believe in the right to bear arms and self defense

    besides there are so many ILLEGAL guns in the USA that if they take away all of the guns from the legal law abiding citizens the criminals with illegal guns will have an unfair advantage

    ---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmke View Post
    I dunno, I've seen the stories but I know very few people who I think would GIVE their kid a gun. Maybe let them shoot one under supervision at a target or something...but that's an entirely different thing.
    i had my first shotgun at 8 years old

    my dad took me hunting with him but it was my gun, and i could take it out in the yard and shoot snakes if i needed to when he wasnt there

    but every scenario is different, this does not mean that all kids should be allowed to have guns

    however it does mean that just because someone takes their child hunting or something like that they are not a maniac

    ---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    All guns? No, of course not. Only automatic weapons and assault rifles. Hunting rifles and hand guns should be legal, as long as improved background checks are implemented, loopholes are closed, and waiting periods are enforced no matter where the weapon is purchased. Ammo also should be subject to the same background checks and waiting periods. Total prohibition is to illiberal for my taste. "The right to swing my arm ends at your nose". Violence can not be legislated out of existence; in China, on the same day as Sandy Hook, there was a mass knifing. At some point prohibition only takes away individual rights, without guaranteeing improved public safety.
    i dont see a problem with people owning assault rifles as long as they are properly trained to handle it and they pass the background check

    however i do agree that the background checks are to lax and do not dig deep enough, in my opinion the USA should make the background check include some type of psych exam to make sure the person isnt crazy, just because a crazy person hasnt committed a crime yet doesnt mean they should be able to buy a gun

    ---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    well japan is an island

    they have alot of people, but it is MUCH easier to control what goes into, and comes out of the country

    the USA is littered with corruption and crime that japan doesnt really have to deal with, i mean think about it like this

    say the US government took ALL of the guns away from law abiding tax paying citizens

    and then the mexican drug cartels, and other groups continued to funnel illegal guns in across the boarder

    then you have a bunch of law abiding tax paying citizens who have NO ABILITY to defend themselves
    and the US border control is a joke, there is no way they will ever prevent or stop all illegal crossing besides the US has so much coast line, that illegal weapons could continue to be smuggled across via boat or plain also

    to me, the US must have guns, its not like all of these crimes are being committed by law abiding citizens with legal guns

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  6. #35
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    Re: Gun control

    How often do people go batman on criminals and confront them with guns? I have never actually seen any numbers on the matter but I can't believe such a thing would be common enough for it to be relevant. Even if it was there would be the issue of whether it would offset itself with the known risks of owning a gun... Honestly, I would think the news would be more keen to showing US citizens shooting or threatening potential attackers or criminals to death. I am not saying it has never happened however I do question such a thing being so common that removing guns would actually result in an upsurge of crime. Do potential criminals even think too much about someone getting a gun to defend themselves before committing a crime? Even the prospect of rotting in jail does not actually deter crime as far as we know, why would guns be all that different?

    Worth noting, guns in mass shootings such as we have seen over the last couple of decades are in general 100% legally owned. A decent number of them were law abiding citizens with no criminal record before loosing their shit and shooting people.

    ---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

    That said, doing a quick search online does suggest that "illegal gun trafficking from mexico" is not actually an issue. Most guns used in crimes come from completely legal weapon's vendors who sell their guns illegally. Then there are friends who buy them for someone and apparently gun shows and such things.

    The US produces 80% of their firearms, it would make far more sense that guns are going from the US to mexico than the other way around.

  7. #36
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    Re: Gun control

    Lol do you think the news knows about about everything being smuggled accross?

    80% of our guns may come from here

    but not 80% of illegal guns

    no manufacturers are making fully auto assault weapons and putting them on the streets

    they are either smuggled from the military (the only people who can legally obtain new fully auto weapons) or they are coming from.other countries

    most liberal media outlets are pro-gun control and thus cannot be accepted an unbiased news source

    in fact the usa has no unbiased news sources

    in all honesty i love the idea of living in a country that has no guns at all

    but until they can prove that ALL illegal guns are out of the hands of criminals, i dont think the citizens should have to give their guns up
    Last edited by REN KOUEN; May 13, 2013 at 12:57 PM.

  8. #37
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    Re: Gun control

    Crimes with assault weapons are to begin with the least common by far. How do you suppose someone would get mugged or a house robbed if they were carrying around large difficult to conceal weapons? Most weapons involved in gun crimes are handguns which are easy to hide and carry around. That said, handguns and semiautomatic guns can be readily and easily bought in the US. Most illegal guns start out as legal and at some point they leave the system and become illegal.

    As far as guns coming in from mexico.... come on, that is absurd. Mexico is the sort of place where guns get smuggled in, not smuggled out of. In SA countries it is common to find craft guns so to speak but there is o way those actually make it all the way to the US.... At least nothing I found on the web actually suggests mexico is getting guns into the US, if anything the opposite and the debate is centered around just how many US guns make it to mexico.

    Doing some research actually does suggest 80% of illegal firearms come from the US actually. 60% alone could easily come from the first source I mentioned, legal vendors selling them illegally. With the other 2 things I mentioned you can easily get to the 80% thing.

    With that attitude towards the information it is absolutely impossible to have a debate though. It is impossible to form a coherent opinion or something if all of the information available is not useful. At most you would be describing your views which you would have no way to justify or make sense of against my views which I would have no way to justify or make sense of.

  9. #38
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    Re: Gun control

    Legal vendors are monitored way too strictly by the atf and other agencies to sell illegally

    the induvidual to individual sales at gun shows are also being eliminated

    but you can blindly believe what ever anti-gun news source you want

    the problem.in america is that there isno way to effectively obtain all of the illegal guns from the criminals

    and if someone says "just call the cops" well by the time the police arrive its often too late

  10. #39
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    Re: Gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    Legal vendors are monitored way too strictly by the atf and other agencies to sell illegally
    Not true. There's a lot of loopholes. There's online sales and private transactions that are gamed to get to a wider market. That's what caused a kerfuffle over a teen's suicide in Nevada.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    the induvidual to individual sales at gun shows are also being eliminated
    Really? I thought the gun control bill got killed in Congress. Are you referring to a state law? If so, which state?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    but you can blindly believe what ever anti-gun news source you want
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    the problem.in america is that there isno way to effectively obtain all of the illegal guns from the criminals
    We will never be able to recover them all, but we can recover most. Tracking information of gun sales can change that. Plus, the feds and police are already in the business of tracking down gun traffickers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    and if someone says "just call the cops" well by the time the police arrive its often too late
    We can improve response time. A large reason that police response time is so low is that the agencies are both underfunded and mismanaged. But that is something we can fix by greater transparency in police infrastructure. Some agencies are run well, but the ones that aren't (ahem, LAPD) probably need an extensive personnel overview (AKA purge) by an external oversight entity (AKA the government.)
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  11. #40
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    Re: Gun control

    It is sad that there are more (legitimate) limitations on freedom of speech than on gun rights. It is tragic that the gun rights lobby is larger, better funded, and more paranoid than lobbies for free and open speech, press, and assembly rights. People should have the right to bear arms, there should never be a total weapons ban. Individuals should be responsible for themselves, we have courts to prosecute anyone who breaks the law. But your right to own a a rifle that fires 100 rounds a minute should be limited by my right to live. Speech that represents a clear and present danger is not protected under the first amendment, assault rifles are do not have to be protected under the second. Freedom is not the right to do whatever you want, whenever you want. That is irresponsibility. Freedom is the ability to take responsibility for yourself, and be accountable for your own actions. Government exists not to blindly protect those freedoms, but to ensure that my freedom does not interfere with your freedom.

    The NRA is a paranoid, conspiracy driven organization. This is not a simple matter of protecting gun rights for sportsman and self defense, but a group that has come to believe gun control is the first step in taking all of our freedoms away.

  12. #41
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    Re: Gun control

    no point in discussing this subject if people are going to result to insults

    sorry i wasted your time with my crazy opinions and paranoia
    Last edited by REN KOUEN; May 27, 2013 at 11:06 AM.

  13. #42
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    Re: Gun control

    drugs are illegal and people still get access to it... so what makes people think that people still won't get guns through the black market if guns are illegal. In addition, the bad guys will be the ones who will go through the black market to get the guns, while good guys won't have a way to protect themselves. Half of America has guns, but only the few who are mentally unstable do the shooting, therefore that means that mental health should be addressed, regardless if the person is over 18 and considered an adult. Anyways, pew pew pew Merica! sorry I had to do it. lol


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  14. #43
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    Re: Gun control

    Well, if I recall there are plenty of people behind actual shootouts who had no history of violence or even mental instability. The cases are ultimately too few (but very notorious) for a proper profile to be made on the people involved. Focusing on mental heath would do nothing if we have no idea of what you are looking for. Its a shame there aren't reliable statistics to support either side of the argument.... It would be very interesting to have reliable statistics of how many people go batman on bad guys every year.

  15. #44
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    Re: Gun control

    With the state that US is in now, I think it's pretty stupid for anyone to suggest banning guns. NOt only will good citizens be stripped of guns, but bad people will still have guns, all it does is unbalance the equation even more towards the illegal's favor. Gangs and bad people can still buy guns illegally or through the black market, which would make the sellers more money. It's much like the Prohibition, except the people who only use guns for self defense will be at a huge disadvantage because they won't be able to protect themselves.

    I think there needs to be a much stricter control instead. Fine sellers who don't follow procedures closely and even toss 'em in jail, make it harder to get guns, etc. Otherwise banning guns will just make things worse.
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  16. #45
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    Re: Gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    With the state that US is in now, I think it's pretty stupid for anyone to suggest banning guns. NOt only will good citizens be stripped of guns, but bad people will still have guns, all it does is unbalance the equation even more towards the illegal's favor. Gangs and bad people can still buy guns illegally or through the black market, which would make the sellers more money. It's much like the Prohibition, except the people who only use guns for self defense will be at a huge disadvantage because they won't be able to protect themselves.

    I think there needs to be a much stricter control instead. Fine sellers who don't follow procedures closely and even toss 'em in jail, make it harder to get guns, etc. Otherwise banning guns will just make things worse.
    I think it's very rare that someone uses a gun for self defense against an armed criminal who actually tries to hurt him, on the contrary I believe having a gun gives a sense of security which encourages people to take action against other people in situations where they can otherwise avoid by simply staying away as can be seen in Zimmerman case. While stricter controls are certainly necessary, it still doesn't stop the relatives or friends of a gun owner from taking the possession of the gun and using for illegal purposes unless it's locked up. But if the gun is somewhere safe, it may not be practical to go get it to defend yourself when you realize you're in danger in situations such as there's a burglar in your house. Also engaging in a gun fight increases the likelihood of you getting yourself killed. Burglars, at least here, run away when people notice them but if you start shooting at them, they may retaliate which, in most cases, makes the situation worse. I guess most of the crimes happen outside people's houses when they generally don't have their guns on them which is another problem which defeats the purpose of having a gun.

    There're also many cases where a completely normal person suffers a nervous breakdown and goes on a killing spree. It would be much better if such a person didn't have access to a gun and obtaining a gun illegally, considering the relative difficulty, would not be viable for a person in that state of mind. If guns were illegal, I guess common people, at least most, wouldn't dare to buy one, risking harsh punishment when caught. I don't see gangs as a problem because you can never outgun a gang and it's not people's job to fight them. I would feel safer if both me and my neighbor didn't have guns than both of us possessing them, what if he shows up at my doorstep with a gun, angry at something trivial. Either shoot him or get shot, nah, I don't like either possibility.

    IMHO pepper sprays and tasers are better tools for self defense which provide adequate protection without fatal results. Recently a man got killed here, his neighbor killed him. The neighbor who killed him had complained about their noisy son to the guy's wife earlier and the wife did summon her husband, claiming that neighbor had insulted her. I believe such an issue could be resolved without resulting in a death, with a broken nose at most but I guess "if you have a gun, why not use it" is the inevitable conclusion of widespread possession of guns and IMHO it makes the boundaries of self defense blurred. Can we trust the better judgment of all gun owners and what good is a dead man and another in prison?

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