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Thread: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

  1. #1
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member TobiOrNotTobi's Avatar
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    Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Obito:
    - the Infinite Tsukuyomi/IT; an illusion cast upon the world so that everyone can live in their own dreamworld that consists of peace.

    Madara:
    - becoming the Jinchūriki of the Juubi/10 Tails and cast the IT on the world.

    Nagato was the one to revive Madara but as we know he "betrayed" Tobi/Obito and Madara on that.

    So in order for Madara to use IT it's required to be in a human living body as you can't become a Jinchūriki.

    We all know that Obito wants to "see" Rin again, well, that won't be even possible anymore as he himself said that he'd die when he uses the Rinne Tensei if he revives Madara.

    He wouldn't be under the controll of this genjutsu as he'd be dead = no Rin for him, right?

    I got the suspicion that Obito is well aware of that and he got some other things planned, especially last chapter showed that Obito knows how to play his cards against Madara.

    Also, Obito wants to show Naruto & the other Ninjas what despair means, why would you do that if you plan on putting the whole world into a fake peace world anyway? That's odd.

    What if Madara is trully the one seeking for ultimate peace (in a wrong way) and Obito for something different?

    I just felt i had to throw this in.
    Last edited by TobiOrNotTobi; December 25, 2012 at 02:44 PM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Obito cannot be a "true" bad guy because he is the result of the ninja system that has turned him out that way. He was never truly the bad guy in terms of wanting to control the world. Do you think a villain would want to put people under a genjutsu to create peace? Think of all the villains thus far, all of them were manipulated and weren't truly bad to begin with.

    Madara is also not worthy of being a villain. He also seems to want peace by means of control unless it's just a cover for something else.

    Sasuke is just a brat who feels his people have been wronged and wants everyone who survived as a result of the clan's sacrifice, dead. Sasuke is pretty pathetic if that's the case.

    However, Orochimaru only wants power and has no care for anything else. Nothing is more dangerous than someone who is extremely ambitious for power and nothing else. Orochimaru is the closest to immortality and his powers are a lot stronger than what we have seen in the series so far. Don't forget his arms are sealed and that he claims he can take Sasuke's body but just doesn't have enough power yet. Orochimaru won't be just some catalyst for Sasuke to gain power, that would be too repetitive for a story (Itachi revived, talks to Sasuke, Sasuke wants the truth now, Itachi dies).

    Kishimoto has hyped up Sasuke, but nothing will be as exciting unless we see the revival of the previous kages and a battle reminiscent to the 3rd vs Orochimaru.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Whatever Obito is now is because of what Madara turned him into.. So whatever he does is because Madara made him what he is.

    Madara, Obito, Nagato they are not real bad guys, they have something that people would call misguided ways BUT the aim they have is to "save the world" and bring peace to it, a place where nobody has to die, we all leave happy and what not.

    Even Sasuke can be considered more of a bad guy then the above people. He just feels like buchering the entire vilage (women and children included) so they can feel his pain to... Of course he got to be who he is because of the vilage itselfs so is not so easy to judge... Thing is after Itachi's "i love you no matter what you decide to do now" and Itachi showing how he feels about the village.... I can defenedly see a change in Sasuke. Curently he wants to find himself. To ask questions and so on. I gues we need to w8 and see what he does now and what his goal has becomed.

    Bad guys are people like Orochimaru, Kakuzu, Hidan and so on. Gues even for these people you can find some excuses.


    Quote Quote:
    Also, Obito wants to show Naruto & the other Ninjas what despair means, why would you do that if you plan on putting the whole world into a fake peace world anyway? That's odd.
    Because he wants them to see his point of view and understand how pointless it is to try to leave in this world. He NEEDS to prove he is right and that Naruto is also trash. He wants to show them that this world has no hope.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Quote Quote:
    Obito cannot be a "true" bad guy because he is the result of the ninja system that has turned him out that way.
    this is joke .... ninja system is bad but that not mean everyone should turned to killing machine ...... obito didn't act against Ninja system but rather for a dream so ninja system has nothing to it .....

    He is a weak man who loss himself and go to make a dream world ....
    خداحافظ

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bajan4eva1's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Yeah I agree. If a "true" villain is one who just seeks chaos and anarchy then Obito isn't one. As far as we know even Madara can't be considered a true villain. He seeks peace but through a different, more radical method than the protagonist. Sort of like Professor X and Magneto. In Sasuke's case though he's neither a villain nor a hero IMO. He's an avenger and depending on who describes him can either be a villain or not. Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of Sasuke but it makes a lot more sense for him to be doing what he's doing then what Obito is. What I get from Sasuke's story now is that he went from wanting everyone dead to just those who directly affected his clan's and brother's demise (sort of like the Count of Monte Cristo, who only targeted those who wronged him).

    And definitely agree about Orochimaru. Sasuke is opposite Naruto because he seeks vengeance, Madara and Obito because they seek a different method of attaining peace. But Orochimaru (and Kabuto IMO) only seeks power. Now that is dangerous. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    Make no mistake though Obito may not be there yet but he's steady on his way to giving Orochimaru a run for the closest to "true villain" we'll see. Like the first post said what if he does indeed have his own agenda and will forsake peace for it.

  6. #6
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sanga Au79's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Naruto has no "villains" the stance is just relative to whatever stance you have. Madara wants to bring peace to the world through his own method, if you dont agree with that method that doesnt make him wrong or you right..you just differ in choice..however the result is all the same, peace.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanga Au79 View Post
    Naruto has no "villains" the stance is just relative to whatever stance you have. Madara wants to bring peace to the world through his own method, if you dont agree with that method that doesnt make him wrong or you right..you just differ in choice..however the result is all the same, peace.
    There are plenty of theories on the ulterior motives behind the fairy tale he told Obito.
    Anyway, this works on many antagonists of NARUTO (Pein, Obito, some small-time ninjas) and on the protagonist, too. But there are exceptions, like Oro, who's a different type of "villain" than those, he doesn't want to bring peace to the world or anything even close.

    On the topic: Obito was screwed over by Madara when he was still a kid, and lived in his own IT of "the world is bad, everyone's trash" ever since. Kids change opinions frequently, and are easily manipulable. If he hadn't been crushed by those rocks, he'd probably have grown up and gotten a more reasonable view on the world. So no, Obito's not more of a villain than Madara, it's just a matter of fixation on bullshit. Still, it seems to be a common trend between Uchihas to backstab (Munchkin? ) those they got their power from.
    Last edited by 0Xellos; December 26, 2012 at 04:36 PM.
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by TobiOrNotTobi View Post
    Nagato was the one to revive Madara but as we know he "betrayed" Tobi/Obito and Madara on that.
    This is one thing I don't really understand.
    Nagato didn't have any intentions to cast an infinite genjutsu, nor he aimed to summon the Juubi to the world again. He was just going to create a ninjutsu as a weapon to keep the countries at bay as he claimed to Naruto, so, he didn't have any particular reason to revive Madara.
    Plus, if he was able to do it by the time he used it on Konoha, Nagato would have probably been able to use it for Madara (provided he could revive someone who died decades ago, which is yet to be answered properly).
    What I'm trying to state here is it's quite possible that Obito never mentioned a thing about Madara's revival plan to Nagato, and perhaps he really didn't want him to come back to the real world.

    ---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TobiOrNotTobi View Post
    We all know that Obito wants to "see" Rin again, well, that won't be even possible anymore as he himself said that he'd die when he uses the Rinne Tensei if he revives Madara.

    He wouldn't be under the controll of this genjutsu as he'd be dead = no Rin for him, right?
    No. If he moved to the afterlife as he should after his death, he'd see Rin (=

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    This is one thing I don't really understand.
    Nagato didn't have any intentions to cast an infinite genjutsu, nor he aimed to summon the Juubi to the world again. He was just going to create a ninjutsu as a weapon to keep the countries at bay as he claimed to Naruto, so, he didn't have any particular reason to revive Madara.
    Plus, if he was able to do it by the time he used it on Konoha, Nagato would have probably been able to use it for Madara (provided he could revive someone who died decades ago, which is yet to be answered properly).
    What I'm trying to state here is it's quite possible that Obito never mentioned a thing about Madara's revival plan to Nagato, and perhaps he really didn't want him to come back to the real world.
    I noticed that a fairly long time ago (before Tobi is revealed as Obito and all that), and the thing is, I believe Nagato never really took orders from Tobi. But instead had him as some sort of an advisor. Konan had even stated that neither Yahiko and Nagato were ever his subordinates or even wanted to help him, which is later confirmed as Yahiko told Tobi when he first appeared to them, to go kill himself.

    Yahiko's idea of peace was more "logical" so to speak and believed that humans will eventually find peace by themselves and that there is no need to have them live in an illusion. This idea later was carried by Nagato who wanted to achieve "true peace" and he most likely never believed or even gave damn about this Infinite Tsukyomi plan.

    In short, the reason his plans were different from Tobi's plans, is because he never knuckled under Tobi as i believe it was stated in the Naruto Chronicle Mini Book character relationship chart, that Tobi is merely collaborated with Nagato not a superior to him or the true leader of the Akatsuki.

    That's all...

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Obito is the true bad guy and NOT Madara?

    I seriously doubt Obito or Madara are villains. Antagonists, yes as they oppose the protagonists, but then again any entity or factor that poses a threat or introduces a hindrance in Naruto's path would be an antagonist. Obito and Madara are truly practical in this regard as 'True Peace' is just a figment of one's imagination. It's momentary and lacks transiency. They want to provide true peace that is dependent on a person's own view, an individual view on peace. And that varies from person to person.
    Last edited by shahdan; December 30, 2012 at 04:44 PM.

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