Naruto 616 Discussion

[Roman]

What was meant there is the Naruto chakra sharing made the other individuals on the battlefield disappear. Hinata is suddenly as powerful as her father out of nowhere, the Nara who would normally be unable to bind a Bijuu on their own are stopping the Juubi and so on.
If that doesn't sound lame to you, nothing will

Is it really that hard to believe their boost in power after receiving powerful chakra from Naruto and Kurama? It just shows how powerful Naruto actually is.

[mattiaildivino]

Meh, passing chakra to everyone is a somewhat boring strategy.

I am counting on Sasuke to bring back the badass fights.

actually,we didn't expect that,did we? and don't tell me you were ready to read that,'cause we expected a kind of combo,not a power-up for alle the characters involved in the fight.

[EMS]

*chapter has flashbacks of Ino and Shikamaru's families without a sign of Naruto*
*complaining about Naruto "creating" or being in flashbacks*

actually, i wasnt saying specified naruto, the main character but as naruto in general(characters/konoha12), i don't mind flashbacks but sometimes when you get a bunch of shitty chapters that the plot doesn't move forward at all and talk not jutsu is involved alot ,it feels as a wasted of pages having unnecessary flashbacks using 3 and 4 pages or even a whole chapter as we did on chapter 615 naruto freaking out and obito lectured him, kishi could had use 3/4 pages instead of 17 pages of the same shit..

[Uchiha_Blood]

Is it really that hard to believe their boost in power after receiving powerful chakra from Naruto and Kurama? It just shows how powerful Naruto actually is.

It's not that it's hard to believe ( neither myself nor Haku are questioning that its legit ), it's that this method destroy the individuality of the characters:
every progress, individual talent, training and whatnot is nullified by having Kyuubi's chakra as aid, meaning they could've just sit on their butts all their life and then puff! Naruto appears and bestows upon them the holy Kyuubi.
What Hiashi did was the fruit of his own work, what Hinata did was the fruit of Naruto/Kyuubi's chakra positive abilities

actually, i wasnt saying specified naruto, the main character but as naruto in general(characters/konoha12), i don't mind flashbacks but sometimes when you get a bunch of shitty chapters that the plot doesn't move forward at all and talk not jutsu is involved alot ,it feels as a wasted of pages having unnecessary flashbacks using 3 and 4 pages or even a whole chapter as we did on chapter 615 naruto freaking out and obito lectured him, kishi could had use 3/4 pages instead of 17 pages of the same shit..

Oh in this case I agree with you, this chapter's flashbacks were unnecessary since, well, Shikaku and Inoichi died kinda 5 chapters ago its like Sasuke having a flashback of Itachi now for no reason

[mattiaildivino]

@Uchiha_Blood, sir, KAbuto told you the reason in volume 61,the same reason oro had taught him: in the ninja world, if you have got no talent,you does not exist, therefore you have to steal others' abilities. that's also what madara did (by stealing izuna's eyes and hashirama's cells), so they haven't got any chance unless they power-up themselves too. Furthermore,it's not that they have got kurama's powers now,just his energy to make their own techniques stronger

[Roman]

It's not that it's hard to believe ( neither myself nor Haku are questioning that its legit ), it's that this method destroy the individuality of the characters:
every progress, individual talent, training and whatnot is nullified by having Kyuubi's chakra as aid, meaning they could've just sit on their butts all their life and then puff! Naruto appears and bestows upon them the holy Kyuubi.
What Hiashi did was the fruit of his own work, what Hinata did was the fruit of Naruto/Kyuubi's chakra positive abilities

The question of individuality of each character is currently irrelevant since the power levels have too much of a gap to begin with. Indivisuality of characters doesn't matter against an opponent like Madara or Obito since less than 5 of those characters can deal with them. It's only natural that those characters get help from one of those 5 who can deal with them. The difference of strength says it all. You can't expect someone like Nara clan to have even the slightest chance against the Uchiha God, so to speak.

[EMS]

It's not that it's hard to believe ( neither myself nor Haku are questioning that its legit ), it's that this method destroy the individuality of the characters:
every progress, individual talent, training and whatnot is nullified by having Kyuubi's chakra as aid, meaning they could've just sit on their butts all their life and then puff! Naruto appears and bestows upon them the holy Kyuubi.
What Hiashi did was the fruit of his own work, what Hinata did was the fruit of Naruto/Kyuubi's chakra positive abilities

this is what some people don't get what are they doing(allies), it isn't nothing from their training and power but just a steroid drug that will last for a short period of time(kyuubi's chakra), i know kyuubi got 9 tails and being the strongest of all the 9 beasts but there is so much different and power between them as heaven and earth that is unbelievable.

Oh in this case I agree with you, this chapter's flashbacks were unnecessary since, well, Shikaku and Inoichi died kinda 5 chapters ago its like Sasuke having a flashback of Itachi now for no reason

what the hell as you said, shikaku and inoichi died kind of 5 chapters ago and they took a half of the chapter of ino and shika talking with their dads and it got so sad to the point that the first page(sasuke and orochimaru) was the best of this chapter

[Hakuteiken]

The question of individuality of each character is currently irrelevant since the power levels have too much of a gap to begin with. Indivisuality of characters doesn't matter against an opponent like Madara or Obito since less than 5 of those characters can deal with them. It's only natural that those characters get help from one of those 5 who can deal with them. The difference of strength says it all. You can't expect someone like Nara clan to have even the slightest chance against the Uchiha God, so to speak.

The problem is, I don't really have high expectations of them to be relevant. Then, just cast them aside. What is the point of bringing a bunch of weak Shinobi to the battlefield if they are unable to fight with their own skills?
Cast them aside or people will naturally complain how lame it was as a development.
Apparently, Kishimoto chose the latter. How Kishimoto like it has been, eh?

[so6pww]

It's harsh because you said his analysis was "pathetic". People wouldn't ignore your posts so often if you didn't have this air of superiority. If you think he's wrong simply say so. It's becoming increasingly hard to take you seriously. It's one thing to be wrong all the time, but to be wrong AND insulting? That takes the cake.

Please read the post below, and tell me if i am wrong given that the poster want to criticize Kishi's logic. Being a critic means you you know how things work in the field of interest, and you know very well the work you are criticizing. From this perspective, I think the poster did a this kind post because he showed that he is complaining about something he does not understand. If telling someone the truth about his analysis is to show my superiority, then I will tell you that you are also making a similar post. The reason is that you are refusing to admit your mistake when I correct you.

Lesson (to really give you my point):

As much as you might be hurt when I seem to correct you, you should know that I find annoying when someone gives a blatantly childish mistaken argument to bash someone effort. Moreover, you should understand that I don't expect any of this answer to my post, and therefore it doesn't matter to me whether they read or ignore my posts. I actually feel better when a few people who know how to read and appreciate the series reply to my posts.

It would be funny if Kishi is trolling us with Naruto=Rikudou's reincarnation.
Just like what happened with the destined child prophecy; Nagato was supposed to be the destined child but in the end Naruto was the one.
Vote Konohamaru for Rikudou's reincarnation

Regardless on your opinion, flaming other users can't be done here.
You can prove your point or criticize someone's post without calling it "pathetic", or generally insulting the person.
Being polite isn't a bad thing - UB

---------- Post added at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Imo is kinda boring ( more than boring, lame ) because this basically destroy whatever accomplishments his comrades did:
Naruto just empowered all of them with Kyuubi's chakra, and all they're doing is using their clan techs. Its like an army made of various groups of clones, you see no difference between, say, Shikamaru or other generic Naras.

For example, I preferred 20038948x times when Hiashi, by himself, airbitchslapped Juubi's hand than when Hinata did as well only with Kyuubi's abilities.

First, none of the comrade of Naruto disappeared because if it was the case, you wouldn't be complaining about Naruto's ability. He is distributing his chakra so that his friends can help him with their respective Jutsu that was ineffective on Juubi. Now, not only they able to defend themselve, but also they can help Naruto.

Second, the fact that you think Shikamaru is the same as the people in his clan is more lame than Naruto distributing his chakra. This is a result of misunderstanding the entire logic in the series. Kishi has shown that almost all the Uchiha are the same with some small difference in Jutsu, then one of two are above everyone (Sasuke now and Madara before). Ino and her father has the same Jutsu with her father being more experienced. All the Aburame are shown to have the same ability, and some have special add-ons. All the Uzumaki have strong body with some hax sensing for a few of them, and exceptionally stronger body for other, but the baseline is the same. From these facts, having the Nara clan doing kage mane or the Akimichi doing Baika no Jutsu is not lame at all.

Third, you have ignore that Shikamaru is still the only genius in his clan so far apart from his father, and only this feat has distinguish him so far from the rest of his comrades. Unless someone else is shown doing the genius part of thinking strategically, your argument is lame. Moreover, if Ksihi were to show other Nara being smart as Shikamaru, there would be no reason to complain about it because all the clansmen share similar feats.

My Opinion on why people are complaining:

Before 616, you guys were predicting and complaining about Nakama power. Now, Kishi proved to you that since the beginning he had only shown that there is only one hero in the alliance, and he is the only one going to help other for most of the battle. You guys are made because instead of Naruto being powerless as you wished, he is getting more powerful. Well, you should start to accept this because in my opinion, Naruto has not even reached half his power yet. You should not forget that in the best case for Sasuke, he will die with Naruto. Otherwise, Naruto will kill him. Thus if you think Sasuke is going to become a god, this also means Naruto will become the God of gods.

What was meant there is the Naruto chakra sharing made the other individuals on the battlefield disappear. Hinata is suddenly as powerful as her father out of nowhere, the Nara who would normally be unable to bind a Bijuu on their own are stopping the Juubi and so on.
If that doesn't sound lame to you, nothing will

Again, I don't think they disappeared. They are still there with there respective abilities. The only thing that happen is that they are using Kyuubi's power to strengthen their Jutsu in the same way Sasuke used to use curse mark to strengthen his Jutsu. This is the same way Madara used Hashimara's power, and Obito is using Juubi's power. I am impressed that everyone was expecting that the alliance could do something without Naruto's help. If this were to happen, Ksihi would be a hell of bad writer. Let me put it in fact:

1. Minato said that unless someone h=is Kyuubi's Jinchuriki, no one can stop Obito
2. An entire war is being waged because of Naruto. Not that in the beginning, though Obito's goal is to get Juubi, his underlying other goal is to end the will of fire.
3. Kushina and Minato died so that Naruto can have a chance to save the world.

Now, magically, all of you smart people think that some lame ninja should save Naruto and the world. I really have problem with your logic. In the first place, none of this alliance ninja has what it take to confront a Juubi or Madara Uchiha.

The problem is, I don't really have high expectations of them to be relevant. Then, just cast them aside. What is the point of bringing a bunch of weak Shinobi to the battlefield if they are unable to fight with their own skills?
Cast them aside or people will naturally complain how lame it was as a development.
Apparently, Kishimoto chose the latter. How Kishimoto like it has been, eh?

Can you deny their usefulness as support. Each one has his own advantage, and they had only one problem - that is they cannot hurt their current enemy. However, with someone being able to seal his chakra in them, they can stop Juubi and Obito temporarily.

[Hakuteiken]

Again, I don't think they disappeared. They are still there with there respective abilities. The only thing that happen is that they are using Kyuubi's power to strengthen their Jutsu in the same way Sasuke used to use curse mark to strengthen his Jutsu. This is the same way Madara used Hashimara's power, and Obito is using Juubi's power. I am impressed that everyone was expecting that the alliance could do something without Naruto's help. If this were to happen, Ksihi would be a hell of bad writer.

Oh, my bad, then. Apologies. If you were fine with all of those power boosts up to this point, there is no need to argue. We are just disagreeing on a subjective thing here.

Now, magically, all of you smart people think that some lame ninja should save Naruto and the world. I really have problem with your logic. In the first place, none of this alliance ninja has what it take to confront a Juubi or Madara Uchiha.

That's pretty evident, isn't it? Even Naruto, Bee or the Five Kage doesn't even stand a chance in reality.

Can you deny their usefulness as support. Each one has his own advantage, and they had only one problem - that is they cannot hurt their current enemy. However, with someone being able to seal his chakra in them, they can stop Juubi and Obito temporarily.

True. But the plan looks like it is bound to fail. Another transformation is coming up. Unless Shikaku came up with a plan to seal it before, of course.
The thing is, without being able to hurt the enemy, the methods to immobilize them will all go in vain as it has gone so far. Naruto can give them all the chakra he has and this can't be kept up for eternity.
I'd be really shocked if this plan is the end for the Juubi, anyway.

[abyozuu]

why choji is trying to hold jyuubi's head while there are better options: poke jyuubi's eye and try to crush it or finger flick madara and obito off jyuubi.

i wonder why there is not a secret file that contains the seal for releasing the ET. there should have been a special library only available to hokage.

if they knew et release formula, nara clan would force madara release his et by shadow mimic jutsu or ino would do the same thing with shintenshin

[M3J]

Let me clarify, without a condition. With humans, there always seems to be some condition to transferring there chakra for use or otherwise, demons have the ability to just give it away if they so desire. You're nitpicking because you went from there is no example other than Chiyo to the rate at which Naruto is giving it away. Despite the fact that he learned it from a Biju, who as we've seen, gave it own chakra at the same rate.



The mention of the fox being able to give it's chakra away? We have examples of that already. One, the situation with The other demons and Naruto. Two, when it has given it to Naruto in the past. Three, Bee. just because it's not out right stated, does not mean that it wasn't there before. You phrase it as if we cannot garner for ourselves that it is within the realm of possibility that a demon can give it's chakra away to whomever it wished from that. Literally nothing but not being told otherwise made us assume that it couldn't give it's chakra away to whomever it desired. And, why shouldn't it? After all, that its own chakra. If you're not stating it clearly, then please do so, so that I can understand.

We're going around in circles too much that I lost my interest. Let's just agree to disagree.

There's no point in me continuing since I feel I actually am grasping at straws, like you said, to be honest.

The whole point of that debate is actually the fact that each and every technique a character shows or learns should be an asspull. If Minato's Hiraishin is an aspull, then Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan is also an aspull, if Naruto's sharing chakra is an asspull, Sasuke's EMS is also an aspull. Yeah, the whole KISHIMOTO as an artist is an asspull because his ideas are an asspull.

That was sarcasm of course, but you know, if some technique is called an asspull, it can also be applied to the next one on the next character. Which is ridiculous because there's no point in reading this manga if you don't like it.

How would that be an asspull? Naruto knowing kage bunshin wouldn't be an asspull because we know he learned it from a scroll. Him using sexy no jutsu isn't an asspull because he was shown to use it before the manga started. You can't say that this jutsu being asspull = other jutsu being asspulls. Sasuke being able to summon hawks equaling an asspull wouldn't mean Naruto summoning toads equals an asspull considering we saw Naruto train for it, and learned that he could successfully summon only when Kyuubi chakra was used. Minato being able to summon frogs wouldn't be an asspull as I think we saw his name in the scroll (?) and we knew he was Jiraiya's disciple, a toad summoner.

To add to it, Ginkaku and Kinkaku were considered to be monsters because they ate the Kyuubi's flesh. There is nothing to suggest an ordinary human being can survive that. And they used the treasured tools without showing any sort of slowing down. Whether they were the descendants of the Rikudou Sennin or not, they cannot be compared to a normal human by any means.

Depends, actually. They ate the evil Kyuubi's flesh, or Kyuubi with evil intent. IF that was the same Kyuubi that gave Naruto's allies chakra, they would have either died or been incapacitated because they wouldn't be able to handle the chakra. Though, maybe the eaten chakra didn't carry Kyuubi's evil will, just evil chakra.

Or Kishi tried (and failed) to make Naruto look cooler or better by making his appearance different when using Kyuubi chakra minus the evil will/intent.

Yea, His chakra .
Naruto gave His chakra after converting the kyubi's

Why would he give his chakra along with the Kyuubi's? Converting chakra doesn't make sense, unless recharged Kyuubi chakra was too potent that Naruto had to water it down. We know Naruto can handle Kyuubi chakra better than almost anyone else because of his own chakra's strength.

How is that boring? It's anything but boring. His comrades are barely able to stand on the battlefield as to how much chakra they've spent. Naturally, he'll help them gain their strength, AT LEAST to defend themselves. Povs on the matter just keep getting better and better.

Basically saying his comrades are shit or useless without Naruto, even though they are tired.

Look at Neji and Chouji when they were chasing Sasuke. Neji had a hole in him but he still beat Kidomaru. Chouji was able to beat Jirobou using pills, but his own skills for the most part. Hell, Shikamaru was able to beat Hidan on his own and most likely lost to Temari only because he was lazy and didn't want to hurt a girl. Most of these comrades didn't need Naruto to win, even when they were tired. There's no challenge if Naruto helps them out and gives them power.

It's like seeing Minato and Itachi vs. Shikamaru. Alone, Shikamaru could be a challenge for either, but teamed up, you know he's gonna get squashed like a slow fly.

Naruto is a leader of one warring side. He's taking care of his army. His army exhausted all of their chakra resources and their leader is taking care of them. It's logical both for the story and for Naruto as a character. I actually like it.

You can't really compare Hiashi and Hinata. Of course Hiashi could deflect such a force without Naruto's chakra, whereas Hinata obviously couldn't.

Doesn't look like he's the leader to me.

Before 616, you guys were predicting and complaining about Nakama power. Now, Kishi proved to you that since the beginning he had only shown that there is only one hero in the alliance, and he is the only one going to help other for most of the battle. You guys are made because instead of Naruto being powerless as you wished, he is getting more powerful. Well, you should start to accept this because in my opinion, Naruto has not even reached half his power yet. You should not forget that in the best case for Sasuke, he will die with Naruto. Otherwise, Naruto will kill him. Thus if you think Sasuke is going to become a god, this also means Naruto will become the God of gods.

lolwhat?

Naruto most likely did reach 3/4 of his power, and even if he didn't reach half of his power, Naruto himself thinks it's not enough based on his nervous smile when he felt the Juubi's power in Sage Mode. Even the incomplete Juubi was even with Hachibi and Kyuubi. If Naruto thought he could beat the Juubi, I doubt he'd have been nervous like that, considering Naruto's confident in himself.

[abyozuu]

is there a sign that sakura is injected with kurama's chakra too

[marshall313]

How is that boring? It's anything but boring. His comrades are barely able to stand on the battlefield as to how much chakra they've spent. Naturally, he'll help them gain their strength, AT LEAST to defend themselves. Povs on the matter just keep getting better and better.

Boring because it's naruto. Just read his second sentence and you'll know why naruto's pretty awesome strategy became a boring.

They just want kishi to let sasuke make an appearance.
For them, sasuke's fight is the most badass/awesome fight in the manga.

Honestly, sasuke and even his fans are annoyed to naruto and naruto's awesome power.

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

The problem is, I don't really have high expectations of them to be relevant. Then, just cast them aside. What is the point of bringing a bunch of weak Shinobi to the battlefield if they are unable to fight with their own skills?
Cast them aside or people will naturally complain how lame it was as a development.
Apparently, Kishimoto chose the latter. How Kishimoto like it has been, eh?

If kishi would cast them aside, then what the hell would happen to the alliance no jutsu?

This war is all about ninjas. The alliance from the start already knew they're going to a fight a monster. Obito even said that there's no hope for them, but what did the kages reply? They don't want to abandon hope.

That's what the ninjas has been doing right now. Even if they know they're nothing compared to madara/juubi/obito, even though they're almost useless in this war but still they can't abandon on what they're fighting for. That's why shikaku's plan is to used the kyubi's power to strengthened their techniques. It's not a lame development, but rather a good strategy from shikaku and naruto. Using naruto/kurama's chakra to fight a freaking monster isn't just a lame development.

Naruto is the only one who can fight the juubi and madara. But he can't defeat them all alone. That's why naruto needs the alliance. And naruto needs to fuel the alliance with kurama's juice to fight a freaking monster like madara and juubi.

When naruto keep on using his rasengan variation, some fans wants naruto to have another jutsu. And now kishi decide to give naruto some awesome jutsu/skills, you called that a lame development.

[Uchiha_Blood]

First, none of the comrade of Naruto disappeared because if it was the case, you wouldn't be complaining about Naruto's ability. He is distributing his chakra so that his friends can help him with their respective Jutsu that was ineffective on Juubi. Now, not only they able to defend themselve, but also they can help Naruto.

Second, the fact that you think Shikamaru is the same as the people in his clan is more lame than Naruto distributing his chakra. This is a result of misunderstanding the entire logic in the series. Kishi has shown that almost all the Uchiha are the same with some small difference in Jutsu, then one of two are above everyone (Sasuke now and Madara before). Ino and her father has the same Jutsu with her father being more experienced. All the Aburame are shown to have the same ability, and some have special add-ons. All the Uzumaki have strong body with some hax sensing for a few of them, and exceptionally stronger body for other, but the baseline is the same. From these facts, having the Nara clan doing kage mane or the Akimichi doing Baika no Jutsu is not lame at all.

Third, you have ignore that Shikamaru is still the only genius in his clan so far apart from his father, and only this feat has distinguish him so far from the rest of his comrades. Unless someone else is shown doing the genius part of thinking strategically, your argument is lame. Moreover, if Ksihi were to show other Nara being smart as Shikamaru, there would be no reason to complain about it because all the clansmen share similar feats.

My Opinion on why people are complaining:

Before 616, you guys were predicting and complaining about Nakama power. Now, Kishi proved to you that since the beginning he had only shown that there is only one hero in the alliance, and he is the only one going to help other for most of the battle. You guys are made because instead of Naruto being powerless as you wished, he is getting more powerful. Well, you should start to accept this because in my opinion, Naruto has not even reached half his power yet. You should not forget that in the best case for Sasuke, he will die with Naruto. Otherwise, Naruto will kill him. Thus if you think Sasuke is going to become a god, this also means Naruto will become the God of gods.

The very idea of the Rookies needing Naruto's chakra to be of help is wrong.
You know why its wrong? Because it means that, without Naruto/Kyuubi's chakra, they are worthless.
Alliance no Jutsu my butt, this way its Naruto no Jutsu

As for Shikamaru, what he did more impressive, in this chapter, than the rest of his clan?
Not a damn thing, they all did the same thing, Chouji as well. That's why I talked about the death of differenciation, Shikamaru in this chapter wasn't the very talented fellow that we all know, but just another Nara.
If you're ok with that, no problem. Personally I'm not, expecially after Kishi made the scene of "the next generation surpassing the previous".

As for your idea of Uchiha and Uzumaki being the same abilities is very wrong, considering all Uzumaki showed ( Naruto, Nagato, Kushina and Karin ) displayed different abilities, same with Uchihas ( the only exception being brothers such as Itachi and Sasuke ).
Do I need to list the several MS jutsus this series displayed?

Lastly on your opinion, just ask around how pro-Sasuke I am
Joking aside, even for anti-Naruto fans I believe its easy to aknowledge he'll come on top, but a character being powerful =/= being a good character, Obito is the perfect example

Why would he give his chakra along with the Kyuubi's? Converting chakra doesn't make sense, unless recharged Kyuubi chakra was too potent that Naruto had to water it down. We know Naruto can handle Kyuubi chakra better than almost anyone else because of his own chakra's strength.

In Bijuu Mode, Naruto and Kyuubi meld their chakras together, meaning its not "Kyuubi's chakra" or "Naruto's chakra", but its both.
Shi and everyone else sensed it as Naruto's chakra because Naruto was actively converting it, maybe to reduce the risks of the chakra being harmful for his friends

It's like seeing Minato and Itachi vs. Shikamaru. Alone, Shikamaru could be a challenge for either, but teamed up, you know he's gonna get squashed like a slow fly.

The only challange Shikamaru would be a match for Itachi or Yondaime would be for the one who sleeps the most