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Thread: Naruto 616 Discussion

  1. #361
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Well I am really convinced this arc is ending this way:



    Full on cheese no jutsu!
    Give the best manga of all time some attention!

    # of "Miura will die before Berserk is finished" comments(since Nov. 1st 2008): 100

  2. #362
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Actually, Naruto didn't do shit. Kyuubi modified the chakra and he is the one making it distributable. All Naruto did was make clones and give people high fives.
    MangaStream's version states that Naruto changed the chakra, even the Kyuubi applauded Naruto for catching on quickly. Dunno if they're right though, I'll give you that. but MangaPanda had their version out as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Okay, and? That's still an example of the fox being able to give it's chakra away. Is there anything in the manga that states it can only be done with the host, or is that an assumption based on years of not being told the contrary? Then we have the example of the other biju giving Naruto, who is not even their host, their chakra as well.
    But Naruto's chakra is different from others' that even Yamato was amazed at Naruto being able to handle Kyuubi's chakra. Plus, the bijuu exchanged chakra with Naruto in a different realm or whatever, which I consider an asspull (though you'll disagree for Naruto's sake). If chakra exchange was that easy or possible, why haven't we seen humans do it? Why is it only Naruto adn Chiyo were able to give/take chakra willingly? The other cases we've seen were when the enemy forcibly sucked out chakra.

    Quote Quote:
    So in summation yes there is an example. The assumption that it could not happen with others outside the host is just that, an assumption. Something that the Fox itself said it would teach Naruto, which is how he knows how to do it. the conversion was most likely done because of this. in one translation, Sai says, "so this is Uzumaki Naruto's... No, the Nine tails Power." However, it basically holds the same weight. What did Shi say this chapter? That's most likely why it was done. As to it being necessary, I'm not sure. However, it's not like it so far out there that it can be labeled as asspull outside the previous one. if you choose to view it that way.
    When did the Kyuubi say that? Few chapters ago, after they became butt buddies. Nothin else indicated that was possible.

  3. #363
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    there was a thread asking what could Kishi do to troll us most. i know one answer now. Naruto giving chakra everyone and creating pseudo jinchurikki must be one of the greatest trollings ever were in the manga.
    Naruto Forever


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  5. #364
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But Naruto's chakra is different from others' that even Yamato was amazed at Naruto being able to handle Kyuubi's chakra. Plus, the bijuu exchanged chakra with Naruto in a different realm or whatever, which I consider an asspull (though you'll disagree for Naruto's sake). If chakra exchange was that easy or possible, why haven't we seen humans do it? Why is it only Naruto adn Chiyo were able to give/take chakra willingly? The other cases we've seen were when the enemy forcibly sucked out chakra.
    Okay, and it really doesn't have anything to do with anything. It still does not change the fact that the Fox has the ability to give it's chakra away. it's not that I disagree for Naruto's sake, you're just quick to call a lot of things an ass pull. And I understand how it's easy to look down on Naruto nowadays, however, if you take a closer look, It becomes a lot harder to make those asspull claims. Plus, saying Nagato is in anyway above Naruto based primarily on assumption and benefit of the doubt just doesn't sit well with me. But, I digress. With the biju having the ability to pass their chakra on to others, how is it so far-fetched that a host can do the same? Especially, when the biju itself said he would teach as much.

    Quote Quote:
    When did the Kyuubi say that? Few chapters ago, after they became butt buddies. Nothin else indicated that was possible.
    Except the Biju's ability to give it's chakra to a host, but ok. the fox even said it within that same sentence.

  6. #365
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    I don't like Naruto, but I never say anything that isn't true to the manga. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due. The earlier translations had stated Kurama modified his chakra. They must have changed it. Here it is. The early translation had Kurama saying he had modified his chakra and simply hand it to Naruto. He then went on to make clones and high fived people. So yea, I'm not trying to be misleading.
    Your translation is clearly a wrong translation. To understand that Naruto converted the chakra, you need to do a progressive reasoning from all the interaction between Naruto and Kyuubi. After Naruto took Kurama's chakra from the first time, Naruto used the chakra and just used it for himself. In all the mode he used, there was no reasonance. This is true because if there was resonance, there would be no point in showing Sasuke and his group in 616. The reason Sasuke and his group were shown in 616 is the disturbance caused by the new chakra. Orochimaru pointed this fact in his analysis of Sasuke's attitude. The cloud Ninja also pointed the same thing in your translation. Thus, it appears clearly that the chakra that was sense wasn't just Kyuubi's chakra. rather, it was a new chakra Naruto created from himself using Kyuubi's chakra. This make mangastream's translation better.

    In fact, I am not surprised at all. I have been pointing out on all the forum where I discuss that a lot of the badassness of Kyuubi are due to Naruto's Uzumaki body ,and I think it is understandable. Naruto is the son of Kushina Uzumaki, a woman who after giving birth and after being extracted the full Kyuubi was able to bind the full angry rampaging beast with her chakra. Kushina was hinted to be the strongest shinobi in term of power of the chakra. I even noted the fact that Kushina's chakra chain binds the Biju in the same way as the chakra chain from Gedo Mazou. Thus, in my understanding, if Naruto were to inherit his mother's chakra, his chakra should be stronger than Kyuubi's chakra. Though, Kishi used the term conversion, I think, Naruto discovered also how his mother was able to manipulate her chakra, and he is doing it with his chakra and the Kyuubi's. (note that I am a Naruto fanboy, but at least I put some fact).

    Finally, I think that the strength Of Naruto's chakra has not been shown at full power yet. An air palm used by Hinata projected Juubi's arm while Killer be + his bijudama were flick away by Juubi's finger in it first transformation. This show the extent of the power of Naruto's new chakra. I am expecting to see his own version of the chakra chain.

    Note: While Uchiha's eyes seems to connect them to Juubi's eyes, the body of some Senju seems to have some power of the Juubi/Gedo Mazou. Madara had the sharingan while Hashimara had the Mokuton. Uzumaki seems to have the Rinnegan part, and though I have been speculating about this for sometimes, the chakra chain can be used only by Rinnegan and Kushina. Kushina had also a Barrier that was so powerful that Kyuubi couldn't escape. Nagato used a similar barrier to protect himself from Kyuubi's chakra bullet.

    My Fanfiction to tease all the people who like to deny Naruto's power

    1. In my opinion, only Rikudo can unite Uchiha and Senju. I mean a neutral person. In the past, the Uzumaki made a mistake by siding with the senju, but Naruto is correcting it by trying to save Sasuke. I am pretty sure that Uzumaki have trace of Senju power and Minato has trace of Uchiha power (or better Rikkudo's initial power). I cannot prove this but Naruto being connected to Rikkudo come from these two fact.

    2. When it comes to that Jutsu Jiraya talk about, many people says it is Kyuubi, and I said it is a sealing Jutsu. However, after thinking it through lately, I asked did a new analysis. Naruto was already jinchuriki and people knew it, even the Akatsuki. So Kyuubi couldn't be the Jutsu. However, there are Justus that someone once used, and became the target of everyone: Sealing and Minato's FTG. So right now, I am thinking of what will be the stage of FTG that Minato would like Naruto to complete. Note that Minato wanted Naruto to stop Obito who outmatched Minato in space-time Jutsu. We have seen FTG level 1 and two from Minato. We have seen Naruto's body flicker being as fast as these two. Guys, imagine Naruto unlocking the real teleportation Minato was using with Kyuubi's power. Maybe he will be able to follow Obito in his dimension. I have always thought that for the sake of the SA, Naruto vs Juubi will happen in another dimension.
    Last edited by so6pww; January 17, 2013 at 09:14 PM.

  7. #366
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Okay, and it really doesn't have anything to do with anything. It still does not change the fact that the Fox has the ability to give it's chakra away. it's not that I disagree for Naruto's sake, you're just quick to call a lot of things an ass pull. And I understand how it's easy to look down on Naruto nowadays, however, if you take a closer look, It becomes a lot harder to make those asspull claims. Plus, saying Nagato is in anyway above Naruto based primarily on assumption and benefit of the doubt just doesn't sit well with me. But, I digress. With the biju having the ability to pass their chakra on to others, how is it so far-fetched that a host can do the same? Especially, when the biju itself said he would teach as much.
    Although it shouldn't be able to? There really has been no indication the Kyuubi or any bijuu could give its chakra to anyone but its jinchuuriki. Why did even Naruto try to change the chakra when Kakashi and Gai could handle it just fine?

    That's because it's an asspull. Came out of nowhere. Nowhere have we seen Naruto change the Kyuubi's chakra, or anyone give anyone else chakra, other than Chiyo and Naruto. If that was possible, then Kakashi could have asked Naruto for chakra when he needed it, or Konan would have just said "Nagato, take my chakra so you don't die! I have enough!"

    Where was Nagato mentioned or how does he come in here?

    The bijuu had the power to give its chakra to jinchuuriki, there was nothing said about it giving power to someone else, jinchuuriki or not. The bijuu giving Naruto chakra makes no sense whatsoever, especially how he got in their world or mind or whatever. But I have seen a lot of people accept anything with Naruto, so whatever.


    Quote Quote:
    Except the Biju's ability to give it's chakra to a host, but ok. the fox even said it within that same sentence.
    Yes, that same sentence in the same chapter that was out this week. It was never mentioned before. And the bijuu's ability to give chakra to host is different since the bijuu is inside its host.

  8. #367
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Madara should put an end to this and use shira tensei and send everyone flying while in the next chapter, we could sed the lost senju clan members will show up too
    Last edited by EMS; January 17, 2013 at 10:46 PM.
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

  9. #368
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    there are sites where it says kurama molded the chakra and what not, but managastreams translation is most of the the better translation and it fits better
    Oro said this is Narutos chakra, that cloud ninja guy mistaken it for kuramas but corrected hisself and said its Narutos, and then Hinata
    So give credit where credit is due to, Naruto actually did something impressive and modified his and kuramas chakras so that he could pass them onto his comrades


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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    prob covered before, i don't get why kakashi didn't have 9tail chakra shape when he got the chakra, but the supposedly converted naruto chakra does give people 9tail shapes

  11. #370
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Although it shouldn't be able to? There really has been no indication the Kyuubi or any bijuu could give its chakra to anyone but its jinchuuriki. Why did even Naruto try to change the chakra when Kakashi and Gai could handle it just fine?
    Shouldn't be able to, based on what? A preconceived notion that it can't just because it's inside the host? All that is, is an assumption because we spent years not being told the contrary. I already explained in my previous post why it was most likely done. As to the necessity, like I said, I'm not sure.

    Quote Quote:
    That's because it's an asspull. Came out of nowhere. Nowhere have we seen Naruto change the Kyuubi's chakra, or anyone give anyone else chakra, other than Chiyo and Naruto. If that was possible, then Kakashi could have asked Naruto for chakra when he needed it, or Konan would have just said "Nagato, take my chakra so you don't die! I have enough!"
    Look at the trading method between the Biju and perfect host. the fox is able to convert Naruto's chakra to replenish itself. That can't work the opposite way because…? You bring up Chiyo so obviously we've seen it before right? Plus, like I said before and will apparently continue to say, the Biju have the ability, which was established in part one, and the fox said it would teach Naruto. If Naruto didn't know that ability extended to human's if taught by a biju, how would Kakashi or konan know?

    Quote Quote:
    Where was Nagato mentioned or how does he come in here?
    Like I said, I was off-topic. Just brought up one of our old arguments. However, you said that I would disagree just for Naruto's sake. however that's not true. I just don't tend to look at all the negatives and I'm not so quick to call a lot of things an asspull.

    Quote Quote:
    The bijuu had the power to give its chakra to jinchuuriki, there was nothing said about it giving power to someone else, jinchuuriki or not. The bijuu giving Naruto chakra makes no sense whatsoever, especially how he got in their world or mind or whatever. But I have seen a lot of people accept anything with Naruto, so whatever.
    Yes, they did. which still equates to them having the ability to give it away. When exactly was it said that they could not give it to someone else? You have no basis to the contrary for that. Nothing said they couldn't give it to other people, you just assumed they couldn't. The demons are separate parts of one being. So a shared inner consciousness is not all that far-fetched.

    It just seems like you're calling it an asspull because you don't agree

    Quote Quote:
    Yes, that same sentence in the same chapter that was out this week. It was never mentioned before. And the bijuu's ability to give chakra to host is different since the bijuu is inside its host.
    So what? What actually said that they could not give it to other people if they themselves desire to. Once again, it's an assumption made from years of not being told the contrary.
    Last edited by KiSwordsman; January 17, 2013 at 10:44 PM.

  12. #371
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    modified his and kuramas chakras so that he could pass them onto his comrades
    Why, when Kakashi and Gai were able to take Kyuubi's chakra directly without a problem? This makes no sense at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Shouldn't be able to, based on what? A preconceived notion that it can't just because it's inside the host? All that is, is assumption because we spent years not being told the contrary. I already explained in my previous post why it was most likely done. As to the necessity, like I said, I'm not sure.
    There was no hint that it could be done either.



    Quote Quote:
    Look at the trading method between the Biju and perfect host. the fox is able to convert Naruto's chakra to replenish itself. That can't work the opposite way because…? You bring up Chiyo so obviously we've seen it before right? Plus, like I said before and will apparently continue to say, the Biju have the ability, which was established in part one, and the fox said it would teach Naruto. If Naruto didn't know that ability extended to human's if taught by a biju, how would Kakashi or konan know?
    when did it convert Naruto's chakra? All we were told was that it just took Naruto's chakra as Naruto took its chakra, without converting. There was no converting involved until this chapter. Why does Naruto even need to convert chakra when Kyuubi's chakra was shown not to hurt Kakashi and Gai? And we've seen it once before, and when Chiyo was using a forbidden jutsu. There were other shinobi low on chakra, why didn't they ask for more? Kakashi could have asked Naruto to lend him chakra in Part I, or Killerbee could have given Naruto some of his Hachibi chakra.

    No, it was established only Kyuubi had the ability to give Naruto chakra, and only because of the seal. It was never mentioned that the bijuu could lend chakra to anyone else. Nor did Kyuubi say it'd teach Naruto until this or a chapter or so ago.

    Human to human chakra transfer, no bijuu required. Kakashi knew it could be possible because, once again, thanks to Naruto giving Chiyo chakra.



    Quote Quote:
    Like I said, I was off-topic. Just brought up one of our old arguments. However, you said that I would disagree just for Naruto's sake. however that's not true. I just don't tend to look at all the negatives and I'm not so quick to call a lot of things an asspull.
    New stuff coming out of nowhere is an asspull, like Izanami or Naruto converting and giving everyone all the chakra they need. Converting part is at the very least, bull, considering Kyuubi has given chakra without needin to convert.



    Quote Quote:
    Yes, they did. which still equates to them having the ability to give it away. When exactly was it said that they could not give it to someone else? You have no basis to the contrary for that. Nothing said they couldn't give it to other people, you just assumed they couldn't. The demons are separate parts of one being. So a shared inner consciousness is not all that far-fetched.

    It just seems like you're calling in an asspull because you don't agree
    Why wouldn't they give it away when it was needed? That's like a doctor not giving a patient who can't breathe CPR when it could have made all the difference.

    But why wasn't that established before? When Naruto fought Gaara? When the Naruto met Killerbee and even hung out with him for a while?

    No, that's not why. I'm calling it an asspull because it came out of nowhere and makes no sense.



    Quote Quote:
    So what? What actually said that they could not give it to other people. Once again, it's an assumption made from years of not being told the contrary.
    When giving chakra to someone was necessary and would have helped.

  13. #372
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    @M3J:

    the problem is, things happened. there are many things that shouldn't have happened. Naruto creating pseudo Jinchurikki is just one of those. i absolutely don't like that, heck, i should say i absolutely hate that. and you are also aware that logic has left the manga from long ago; now trying to find logic in what's happening won't get us anywhere.

    so, my suggestion is, ignore the logic about how Naruto was able to give chakra to all.
    Naruto Forever


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  15. #373
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Yeah, it's pretty shitty. But it's not impossible after what we saw happen with Kakashi. It's annoying, but no more annoying than having to sit through this fight before we can get to Sasuke's stuff, so just do what I do: shrug and wait.

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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by EMS View Post
    Madara should put an end to this and use shira tensei and send everyone flying while in the next chapter, we could sed the lost senju clan members will show up too
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he can't use anything of his offensive techniques while attached to the juubi. There has to be some sort of crutch here considering Madara could easily end this. I was hoping Naruto would simply rise to the occasion and match him, but we're stuck with the love-conquers-all scenario.
    Give the best manga of all time some attention!

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    There was no hint that it could be done either.
    They do have the ability to give the chakra to the host though, so it stands to reason that if they so desire, they can give their chakra to whomever they wish. they just never did, willingly at least, because they hated humanity.

    Quote Quote:
    when did it convert Naruto's chakra? All we were told was that it just took Naruto's chakra as Naruto took its chakra, without converting. There was no converting involved until this chapter. Why does Naruto even need to convert chakra when Kyuubi's chakra was shown not to hurt Kakashi and Gai? And we've seen it once before, and when Chiyo was using a forbidden jutsu. There were other shinobi low on chakra, why didn't they ask for more? Kakashi could have asked Naruto to lend him chakra in Part I, or Killerbee could have given Naruto some of his Hachibi chakra.
    Think about that. The chakra that Naruto took from the fox was finite. When Naruto used the chakra that he already took, the fox took his for a time. If he didn't convert it he'd basically be giving Naruto back his own chakra. I've already explained why it was most likely done. a couple posts ago. I've also said that I'm not sure about the necessity of converting it, but I'll sum it up. Back in the 290s, sai differentiated between Naruto and the Fox's power. This chapter Shi did the same thing, but in Naruto's favor. that is most likely the main reason why the conversion was done, So that people couldn't just chalk it up to the fox. Kakashi could have asked for chakra in part one when the fox and Naruto we're nowhere near as close as they are now? Bee kinda has before. Just not in the same way Naruto's done it. Using Bee is not a great idea anyway due to the fact that he's not done a lot of things because the plot has called for it. Example: he doesn't call Gyuuki by his name. He spent four or so chapters immobile while Obito was being fought.

    Quote Quote:
    No, it was established only Kyuubi had the ability to give Naruto chakra, and only because of the seal. It was never mentioned that the bijuu could lend chakra to anyone else. Nor did Kyuubi say it'd teach Naruto until this or a chapter or so ago.
    I don't really see how that makes a difference. The fox is one of the nine biju so... at the very least we can guess that the other biju can do the same. the fox said he would teach Naruto about seven chapters ago. the seal is what let there chakra's mix, it is not what permitted the fox to willingly give Naruto his chakra. Then you've got Bee and Nii Yugito.

    Quote Quote:
    Human to human chakra transfer, no bijuu required. Kakashi knew it could be possible because, once again, thanks to Naruto giving Chiyo chakra.
    Like characters have never not done something or not taken notice of something because of the plot. Madara and Obito are shining examples of this. Hell, we even have the opposite being true. Shikaku bringing up Obito's Time limit despite the fact that Konan died before passing the info on to anyone.

    And it's not like it's easy peasy lemon squeezy either. The idea that it can be given away harmlessly seemed to be primarily a biju thing more than a human thing. Remember Humans can give their chakra to others but alot of the time it's either medics or genjutsu users. Example: Tsunade.

    Quote Quote:
    New stuff coming out of nowhere is an asspull, like Izanami or Naruto converting and giving everyone all the chakra they need. Converting part is at the very least, bull, considering Kyuubi has given chakra without needin to convert.
    Thing about that though, it's not coming out of nowhere. Even if you don't want to accept it in part one, we have it shown seven chapters previous, and some chapters before that by the other demons. Even if I were to give you the conversion, the chakra dispersing is not an asspull because it didn't come out of nowhere. A true asspull would be when it was revealed that those three schmoes could use Hirashin, due to the fact that it was revealed the very chapter that they needed Mei to be with the other Kage.

    Quote Quote:
    Why wouldn't they give it away when it was needed? That's like a doctor not giving a patient who can't breathe CPR when it could have made all the difference.

    But why wasn't that established before? When Naruto fought Gaara? When the Naruto met Killerbee and even hung out with him for a while?

    No, that's not why. I'm calling it an asspull because it came out of nowhere and makes no sense.

    When giving chakra to someone was necessary and would have helped.
    Because of the whole, "we hate humanity" thing, maybe? Were the fox and Naruto cool when he fought Gaara? I already gave you an example with Bee, it was during the time that he helped with the fox. even if you don't except that, seven chapters previous to this one. And, some chapters previous to that with the other demons. So no, it's not coming out of nowhere. As far as the last sentence, see the first point in this paragraph.
    Last edited by KiSwordsman; January 18, 2013 at 01:27 AM.

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