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Thread: Naruto 616 Discussion

  1. #616
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    @Suzaku ..
    i'm glad that someone that is more familiar with these websites that translate all this shounen,(Naruto,bleach,one piece), for example, you got a good explanation about this translator and even me that i don't know so much about this translators, i used to like mangastream more but as you said, lately their translations are kind of overboard..
    the translator is trying to make the chapter more amazing and add more drama with the words while i'm happy that manga panda might don't have great translators but they always first to realize the chapters of shounen that we love.
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

  2. #617
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    It's why I always try to read both versions of the chapter. Manga Panda and Manga Stream offer different words, and if one version doesn't make sense, the other might. Otherwise I stick to MangaStream for superior cleaning and redrawing.

    Has anyone contacted MangaStream about their translator yet?

  3. #618
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SupremeMod's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    meh... reading different versions is like trying to understand two different drunk people saying the same story. You get the gist of it either way. I don't like really mind if a scanlator adds stuff like "shit and fuck" cause I'm not a 10 year old girl. Bring on the cuss words, I fucking say. lol

  4. #619
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Hrathgrath's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    I'm sorry, that's just not true. I don't want to get into an argument, so I'll just lay it out for you and leave it at that.

    I often read the Japanese netabare scripts when they're posted on ni channel by ohana.

    Around last October, Mangastream got a new translator. He really is not doing a great job. He might be a capable enough translator, but he takes far, far too many liberties with the script. He rewrites dialogue excessively, to such an extent that the meaning is often completely changed. He also adds a lot of additional profanity that isn't there in the original.

    For example, this week, Naruto points to his heart and says says:

    「・・・そもそも その傷が 仲間がここで生きてるってことじゃねーのかよ・・・」

    My translation: "...to begin with, these wounds... are proof that your comrades live on in here..."

    Mangapanda's translation: "...and anyway, that wound... means that my friends are still inside me..."

    Viz Media's translation: "but it's those wounds... that prove your comrades live on inside here..."

    Mangastream's translation: "even so... that is a burden I'll gladly shoulder... our comrades will remain immortal... within us."

    Mangastream's translation is almost completely different from the Japanese dialogue. It barely even qualifies as translation. It's like 50% made up.


    Another bit of dialogue:

    「呪いだろーが何だろーが」

    My translation: "Maybe it's a curse, maybe it isn't..."

    Mangapanda's translation: "It can be a curse, but I don't care..."

    Viz Media's translation: "Curse or not..."

    Mangastream's translation: "I could give two shits even if it is a curse..."

    Mangapanda and Mangastream both misinterpreted the sentence a little bit. Naruto is saying he doesn't know if [a memory of his fallen comrade] is a curse or not, but he wants to keep it alive in his heart; MP and MS took it a bit farther by having him say he doesn't care if it is a curse. Of course, MegaJero completely pulled those 'two shits' out of his ass, so I'd still have to give the nod to Mangapanda.

    Sure, Mangapanda's got some occasional grammar problems and typographical errors, and their typesetting and cleaning isn't as good as Mangastream's, but their scripts are currently far more accurate. These translation issues are going on in almost every other word bubble of Mangastream's translations.

    If we're talking purely about the quality of the Japanese-to-English translation, Mangapanda's got Mangastream beat. Naturally, Viz Media's got the most professional translation and the highest quality images (as they use the actual work files supplied by Shueisha editors, rather than magazine scans), but if that's not an option for you, I'd have to recommend Mangapanda over Mangastream, at least until Mangastream ditches MegaJero or MegaJero cuts the crap and starts translating dialogue that can actually be found on the page.
    There is a difference between a translation and a "literal translation" Especially with Japanese, a translator has to write what the person speaking was trying to say not what his words litteally translate to. Have you ever run a chapter through google translator?
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  5. #620
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Xiraiya's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    I'm sorry, that's just not true. I don't want to get into an argument, so I'll just lay it out for you and leave it at that.

    I often read the Japanese netabare scripts when they're posted on ni channel by ohana.

    Around last October, Mangastream got a new translator. He really is not doing a great job. He might be a capable enough translator, but he takes far, far too many liberties with the script. He rewrites dialogue excessively, to such an extent that the meaning is often completely changed. He also adds a lot of additional profanity that isn't there in the original.
    There have been quite a few chapters I swear were just translated with Gizoogle, it gets pretty absurd. I don't mind people touching up translations to sound more epic without changing the context/meaning, but there are limits to how much that should happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeMod View Post
    meh... reading different versions is like trying to understand two different drunk people saying the same story. You get the gist of it either way. I don't like really mind if a scanlator adds stuff like "shit and fuck" cause I'm not a 10 year old girl. Bring on the cuss words, I fucking say. lol
    Unnecessary cursing and whatnot just makes the characters seem dumber, it doesn't make one seem more adult, it distorts the personality of the characters in a negative way, unless of course foul language is a part of a character's persona.

    It's like a kid discovering swear words and wants to say them as many times as he can regardless of context and placement.
    Who can really take anyone seriously that curses with every second word for no reason at all?

    You can't, because they come across as if they aren't smart enough to use any other words.

    I don't think Naruto needs any outside help acting dumber than usual.
    Last edited by Xiraiya; January 22, 2013 at 05:40 AM.

  6. #621
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity llamapie's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiraiya View Post
    There have been quite a few chapters I swear were just translated with Gizoogle, it gets pretty absurd. I don't mind people touching up translations to sound more epic without changing the context/meaning, but there are limits to how much that should happen.


    Unnecessary cursing and whatnot just makes the characters seem dumber, it doesn't make one seem more adult, it distorts the personality of the characters in a negative way, unless of course foul language is a part of a character's persona.

    It's like a kid discovering swear words and wants to say them as many times as he can regardless of context and placement.
    Who can really take anyone seriously that curses with every second word for no reason at all?

    You can't, because they come across as if they aren't smart enough to use any other words.

    I don't think Naruto needs any outside help acting dumber than usual.
    I can't agree here. As long as the language is used in proper meaning it can only serve to put emphasis on the words and make it feel less like a children's manga. "I don't care" and "I don't give a shit" essentially have the same meaning.
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  7. #622
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    The difference here is that Naruto isn't even really talking about "caring" in the Japanese version. He's weighing two possibilities. "Maybe it's a curse, maybe it isn't." Or word it however you like.

    Localization is important, but there's no reason to go overboard like this. I frankly think it hurts the manga, because Mangastream so frequently changes the meaning to something completely different. The Japanese dialogue is dealing with these metaphors about wounds and emotional scars, and the MS translation just goes off on a tangent and changes it completely for no benefit. The MS translation is in fact wordier and less concise.

    Adding profanity to make it "feel less like a children's manga" is just lying to yourself. That's a 13-year-old's idea of "mature," which inherently makes it seem immature to me.

    If you want to read a mature manga with adult themes, go read some proper seinen. I recommend Blade of the Immortal, particularily Dark Horse's Eisner Award-winning translation, which is full of profanity and slang that accurately localizes Hiroaki Samura's dialogue, because his characters actually talk like modern, foul-mouthed Japanese street punks even though it's set during the Tokugawa Shogunate.

    Anyway, like I said, I didn't want to start an argument. I just wanted to point out that Mangastream's translator has been taking pretty excessive liberties with the scripts and that if you're looking for accuracy, Mangapanda's scanlations are currently doing a better job.

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  9. #623
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Orochimaru-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Oh dear,i just arrived in the middle of a linguistic debate,it's just January and you guys are already on philosophical topics...To curse or not to curse?Wait September at least.

    Happy new year btw.

    Now concerning the chapter,well,i would like to get more privacy,no romantic BS in the middle of a big fight,not all the useless noobs that Naruto is obliged to refuel...
    I would like to see a creepy isolated fight,like Orochi vs Naruto and Sasuke,in the forest of death,during the chuunin exam.
    Last edited by Orochimaru-Sama; January 22, 2013 at 07:16 AM.


  10. #624
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Orochimaru-Sama View Post
    Oh dear,i just arrived in the middle of a linguistic debate,it's just January and you guys are already on philosophical topics...To curse or not to curse?Wait September at least.

    Happy new year btw.

    Now concerning the chapter,well,i would like to get more privacy,no romantic BS in the middle of a big fight,not all the useless noobs that Naruto is obliged to refuel...
    I would like to see a creepy isolated fight,like Orochi vs Naruto and Sasuke,in the forest of death,during the chuunin exam.
    Don't put just hopes up, the most that we got so far is talk not jutsu and not progressed in the plot..
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

  11. #625
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jalix's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    Adding profanity to make it "feel less like a children's manga" is just lying to yourself. That's a 13-year-old's idea of "mature," which inherently makes it seem immature to me.
    You know, I'm glad someone else said it. I really don't like the profanity, and that's a big reason why. It doesn't make scenes more 'intense' in this manga, it actually detracts from it and even pulls the characters out of their element. It's almost as if it's crammed in sometimes just for the sake of cramming it in, forcing it because someone thinks it makes the scene 'more cool'. I guess that's probably the one big thing I have with some translations. A moment where the real translation would have been better, I end up rolling my eyes instead because of the useless profanity. /rant

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  13. #626
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member helios_shin's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    there's one thing i don't understand about Sasuke's case.
    he's not going to see some strange people. i think he's just going to see the two elders of Konoha. by fonction they must know everything about the village's history (uchiha VS senju) and ninja's history (what is the meaning of being a ninja).

    next chapter i think we will see Naruto making his move against Tobito and Madara, but failed.
    at the same time i think we're gonna see the team inside Madara's repair helping Yamato. the consequence : trouble for the juubi, inconsistencies in his form and perhaps a self destruction. or not

    and we're gonna see Tobito betraying Madara at some point. on this point i have no doubt.
    Last edited by helios_shin; January 22, 2013 at 11:23 AM.

  14. #627
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    I'm sorry, that's just not true. I don't want to get into an argument, so I'll just lay it out for you and leave it at that.

    I often read the Japanese netabare scripts when they're posted on ni channel by ohana.

    Around last October, Mangastream got a new translator. He really is not doing a great job. He might be a capable enough translator, but he takes far, far too many liberties with the script. He rewrites dialogue excessively, to such an extent that the meaning is often completely changed. He also adds a lot of additional profanity that isn't there in the original.

    For example, this week, Naruto points to his heart and says says:

    「・・・そもそも その傷が 仲間がここで生きてるってことじゃねーのかよ・・・」

    My translation: "...to begin with, these wounds... are proof that your comrades live on in here..."

    Mangapanda's translation: "...and anyway, that wound... means that my friends are still inside me..."

    Viz Media's translation: "but it's those wounds... that prove your comrades live on inside here..."

    Mangastream's translation: "even so... that is a burden I'll gladly shoulder... our comrades will remain immortal... within us."

    Mangastream's translation is almost completely different from the Japanese dialogue. It barely even qualifies as translation. It's like 50% made up.


    Another bit of dialogue:

    「呪いだろーが何だろーが」

    My translation: "Maybe it's a curse, maybe it isn't..."

    Mangapanda's translation: "It can be a curse, but I don't care..."

    Viz Media's translation: "Curse or not..."

    Mangastream's translation: "I could give two shits even if it is a curse..."

    Mangapanda and Mangastream both misinterpreted the sentence a little bit. Naruto is saying he doesn't know if [a memory of his fallen comrade] is a curse or not, but he wants to keep it alive in his heart; MP and MS took it a bit farther by having him say he doesn't care if it is a curse. Of course, MegaJero completely pulled those 'two shits' out of his ass, so I'd still have to give the nod to Mangapanda.

    Sure, Mangapanda's got some occasional grammar problems and typographical errors, and their typesetting and cleaning isn't as good as Mangastream's, but their scripts are currently far more accurate. These translation issues are going on in almost every other word bubble of Mangastream's translations.

    If we're talking purely about the quality of the Japanese-to-English translation, Mangapanda's got Mangastream beat. Naturally, Viz Media's got the most professional translation and the highest quality images (as they use the actual work files supplied by Shueisha editors, rather than magazine scans), but if that's not an option for you, I'd have to recommend Mangapanda over Mangastream, at least until Mangastream ditches MegaJero or MegaJero cuts the crap and starts translating dialogue that can actually be found on the page.
    You did a great job, but you can see that all the translation say the same thing in their essence. And in general, a translation takes into account the context. In my opinion, Mangastream conveys Naruto's usual personality and feelings than all the other translation you are calling great. This is the rule of translation, they are not just flat retranscription of the words.

  15. #628
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by helios_shin View Post
    there's one thing i don't understand about Sasuke's case.
    he's not going to see some strange people. i think he's just going to see the two elders of Konoha. by fonction they must know everything about the village's history (uchiha VS senju) and ninja's history (what is the meaning of being a ninja).

    next chapter i think we will see Naruto making his move against Tobito and Madara, but failed.
    at the same time i think we're gonna see the team inside Madara's repair helping Yamato. the consequence : trouble for the juubi, inconsistencies in his form and perhaps a self destruction. or not

    and we will see Tobito betraying Madara at some point. on this point i have no doubt.
    i will understand that "the human that knows everything" will be the elders but that scroll contained something that will changed the outcome of the war while sasuke could have learn how to use the scroll as water boy said, sasuke preferred to let that to orochimaru, there are things that only orochimaru can do according to sasuke..
    but something really got me thinking is that i the elders taren't the ones that sasuke is going to meet , why they will use the term the human that knows everything to elders?.. they could know some stuff and secrets of konoha but to called them the human that knows everything after sasuke saw the scroll?, i doubt is them, sasuke already knew about the elders being part of the massacred of the uchiha clan and sarutobi(deceased), danzou(killed by sasuke) and the elders as the only ones that knows the secret of the massacred and even then sasuke didn't name then as the human that knows everything, i think there is more to it than just a living person i mean orochimaru has to get his are back from the Shinigami (Death God) after sarutobi sealed his arms with Shiki Fuujin jutsu and if oro free his arms, he could on sealed the souls of the previous hokages also.
    Last edited by EMS; January 22, 2013 at 11:33 AM.

  16. #629
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Thabor's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    In my opinion, Mangastream conveys Naruto's usual personality and feelings than all the other translation you are calling great. This is the rule of translation, they are not just flat retranscription of the words.
    But that is exactly the point, if they portray Naruto as constantly cussing when he doesn't then it isn't the same personality at all. That is one of the reasons why I can't stand to watch the Naruto anime in english. The interpretation just differs to much from the original.
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

  17. #630
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

    It feels like the current translator for MS is way too interested in making his translation sound 'unique'. I don't mind slang and the occasional curse word, but not at the cost of the setting's integrity. This isn't Akira or Berserk, it's Naruto. Naruto should be able to say things like 'crap' and 'damn' and 'hell', but 'shit' and 'fuck' just look totally out of place in the manga as a whole. It's 'mature' in the sense that Grand Theft Auto is 'mature'.

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