Bleach 523 Discussion

[dex]

The Unohana thing was nice, but at the same time it's kind of weird and maybe a bit forced in such a short amount of time. SS's greatest criminal and greatest sword(wo)man at the flip of a switch goes back to being her old bad-ass/murderous self. But where was all of this during the time that Aizen was in the process of taking out the entire Gotei 13? If she went back to her old self in an effort to protect SS, as it seems to be the case, then there was a time and place to at least hint at who she once was. Plus she totally looks like a dude now...which is a kind of creepy then anything else about her.

she went back to her former self coz captain commander (shunsui) ordered her to do...else i dont think she would have resorted to fighting in any case... its not about her saving anything...she may end up destroying in the process of saving...yamaji would have put restraint upon her... with aizen yamaji never thought of being defeated but in case of juha bach where there was a chance that he could die yamaji still didnt allow unohana to fight...

the character "kenpachi" is the one who loves fighting over anything else...there is no good side to them...its just they are battle hungry...so asking "kenpachi" to be righteous and saving the day is not an option...its just like you unleash a hound which could very well kill yourself when you face danger...

[zerocooldx]

she went back to her former self coz captain commander (shunsui) ordered her to do...else i dont think she would have resorted to fighting in any case... its not about her saving anything...she may end up destroying in the process of saving...yamaji would have put restraint upon her... with aizen yamaji never thought of being defeated but in case of juha bach where there was a chance that he could die yamaji still didnt allow unohana to fight...

the character "kenpachi" is the one who loves fighting over anything else...there is no good side to them...its just they are battle hungry...so asking "kenpachi" to be righteous and saving the day is not an option...its just like you unleash a hound which could very well kill yourself when you face danger...

His plan was to grab on to Aizen and prepare to sacrifice himself along with like 8 other captains, seated officers, and all of the Vizards. That would have been a far worse outcome then just he himself dying like was the case with Bach. I don't know why everyone likes to underestimate the fact that Aizen effortlessly crushed all of the Gotei 13, yet as we continue to find out they were all holding back something that at the very least would have made it far more difficult on Aizen to do what he did. Pretty meh.

[Sky Render]

Ah, so, it must be like, several hundred years ago, Kenpachi was there to challenge Unohana before she resigned his position. I'd say unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely, perhaps because there is an unspoken assumption that Kenpachi isn't that old.

Kenpachi could be as old as Unohana for all we know. Nothing in canon states otherwise. All we know is that he was roaming rukongai until he ultimately decided to get himself a new coat. Timeline is as follows:

1- He battles Unohana and gest his scar.
2- He meets Yachiru Kusajishi and names her after Unohana.
3- He meets Ikkaku and Hayasegawa.
4- He gets his new coat.

That's all we know. Dude could be 10.000 years old as far as canon is concerned.

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ----------

we got alot going on so far and bleach is in the top, i wish the anime will come back..

Rest assured the anime will come back. Think about Fullmetal Alchemist.

[Hakuteiken]

His plan was to grab on to Aizen and prepare to sacrifice himself along with like 8 other captains, seated officers, and all of the Vizards. That would have been a far worse outcome then just he himself dying like was the case with Bach. I don't know why everyone likes to underestimate the fact that Aizen effortlessly crushed all of the Gotei 13, yet as we continue to find out they were all holding back something that at the very least would have made it far more difficult on Aizen to do what he did. Pretty meh.

That is the key point. Too many unrevealed Bankai, too many unrevealed powers despite all that danger.
Sometimes, I can't help but think it was just a trick to train Ichigo for these days by Aizen. What imagination, huh..

[Delbi]

I think people are looking at that line by Unohana the wrong way.

"The only wound every inflicted on me screams your name".

The wound screams Zaraki's name because it's taunting him. Zaraki is known for cutting people and being difficult to cut. Essentially the wound, and Unohana are challenging Zaraki to cut her body, as only one person has done so before. And we all know how Zaraki loves challenges and loves to fight.

And then he goes on to say "Your wound ain't the only one screaming", essentially telling her to come and get it as well.

[Necron]

I don't care what anyone says. This chapter is freaking awesome.

If this page doesn't make your drawers wet, you probably aren't actually a Bleach fan.

Well, I don't like Ichigo and that whole power-up that is making it's way for him yet again, so I didn't like the start of the chapter.
And I didn't like that particular page either, I would've liked Unohana to stay the nice and calm smiling lady, while unleashing her wrath on Kenpachi. She looks like she's going to assault Kenpachi sexually in that page if you ask me. But then again, I'm not "actually" a Bleach fan for that matter.
And while this chapter was good overall and made me more interested in the first Gotei 13 once again, there were two things that sort of ruined it. The first is adressed by zerocooldx:

The Unohana thing was nice, but at the same time it's kind of weird and maybe a bit forced in such a short amount of time. SS's greatest criminal and greatest sword(wo)man at the flip of a switch goes back to being her old bad-ass/murderous self. But where was all of this during the time that Aizen was in the process of taking out the entire Gotei 13? If she went back to her old self in an effort to protect SS, as it seems to be the case, then there was a time and place to at least hint at who she once was. Plus she totally looks like a dude now...which is a kind of creepy then anything else about her.

I fully agree with that. If she is as monstrous of a fighter as Kenpachi, she could've easilly made a difference in that war instead of holding back useless hollows from killing useless chad and healing useless and stupid Hiyori.

But the second thing, and I'm going to critizise Kubo's writing here once again (Oh nooooez!), is something that's just completely ridiculous.
Why does Kubo always have to make such stupid premises as: "But if you two clash swords, one of you will have to die." - oh Lord watch out for the badassery over here man!
Seriously though, this sounds like a five year old screaming for attention. It's the same thing as always, he makes a stupid prediction like that just to abbandon it. Remeber when some Shingami said: "Byakuyas and Kenpachis are in so horrible states that they won't be able to redeem their duties as Captains again!" - and here we have Kenpachi standing and fighting with monster Unohana, while Byakuya is being healed in the Royal dimenson... Neither Unohana nor Kenpachi are going to die, that would be idiotic. They need as many strong Captains as they can get and also Kubo wouldn't throw away either of those two, if he doesn't even have the balls to kill Byakuya (who he milked for everything he can at this point).
Kubo should've made Shunsui say something like this: "You probably think you know what Unohana is capable of Kenpachi, but the things she did before joing the Gotai 13 are beyond your wildest imaginations. Either you live up to your potential or you die in the Muken..." - followed by 2 chapters of Unohana horribly ripping Kenpachi apart and healing him up again, to the point where he has no choice other than to beg his Zanpaktou for help.

[dex]

His plan was to grab on to Aizen and prepare to sacrifice himself along with like 8 other captains, seated officers, and all of the Vizards. That would have been a far worse outcome then just he himself dying like was the case with Bach.

yes you are right about yamajis actions...maybe it was the pride of a old senile fool...this pride was the reason he went down later...

I don't know why everyone likes to underestimate the fact that Aizen effortlessly crushed all of the Gotei 13, yet as we continue to find out they were all holding back something that at the very least would have made it far more difficult on Aizen to do what he did. Pretty meh.

aizen is not being underestimated by the readers its just all g13 underestimated his potential and it seemed right coz he never really showed anyone in g13 his full powers (except gin and tosen ofc) ... i mean they knew aizen was strong ...but the idea that aizen was toooo strong hit them like a sniper's bullet...as for not going all out ...there are many reasons for that imo :
1. plot
2. 10+ strong people ganking on 1 (aizen)...definitely they wont go allout at first...but before they could go allout they were crushed...
3. some captains bankai can be fatal for others (like yamaji) so they prefer not fighting with it

[EMS]

i still think that Uryū Ishida got brain washed and turn in the side of the quincies, i hope ichigo and Uryū doesn't end up fighting each other..

[Schabrak]

So perhaps Zaraki doesn't achieve Bankai, but instead just makes himself loads more powerful. It's already been shown he is nothing against the upper tier of the Vandenreich. Slaying fodder means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

They weren't really fodder, there is just that much of a difference between any of the SR and Bach.

Let's hope Mayuri finds something out in the meantime.

Someone knew all along. XD Look at kind of topic I found on another board from mid 2011:
Topic: Evil Retsu Unohana Vs Kenpachi Zaraki Shunsui Kyōraku And Jūshirō Ukitake

http://youtu.be/wfW6z8bOD8I?t=35s

I would kill to hear Hisakawa voice this conversation.

[Delbi]

They weren't really fodder, there is just that much of a difference between any of the SR and Bach.

Let's hope Mayuri finds something out in the meantime.

IMO, I think they are fodder. There was a few strong SR and a lot of crappy ones. Also, Bach has to have more powerful troops up his sleeve, I doubt his whole plan was to steal the Bankai of the Captains and hope for the best. Because if he is the only one strong enough to steal Yama's Bankai, and apprently no one can steal Ichigo's, then who exactly would deal with the 5 Royal Guard members?

[Hakuteiken]

Kenpachi could be as old as Unohana for all we know. Nothing in canon states otherwise. All we know is that he was roaming rukongai until he ultimately decided to get himself a new coat. Timeline is as follows:

1- He battles Unohana and gest his scar.
2- He meets Yachiru Kusajishi and names her after Unohana.
3- He meets Ikkaku and Hayasegawa.
4- He gets his new coat.

That's all we know. Dude could be 10.000 years old as far as canon is concerned.

The thing is, although this is possible, it would be lame. Kyouraku states that Kenpachi needs training even after being a captain for this long, so, he couldn't possibly be anywhere near Unohana's level 1,000 years ago or something even if he was alive back then.

[Delbi]

The thing is, although this is possible, it would be lame. Kyouraku states that Kenpachi needs training even after being a captain for this long, so, he couldn't possibly be anywhere near Unohana's level 1,000 years ago or something even if he was alive back then.

He didn't give her the scar, no way.

She said that because she's taunting him. Only one person was ever strong enough to cut her, and Zaraki has yet to face someone he can't cut (except Bach perhaps). He replies by telling her that that cut isn't the only one screaming essentially telling her he accepts her challenge and wants her to try and cut him.

[Sky Render]

The thing is, although this is possible, it would be lame. Kyouraku states that Kenpachi needs training even after being a captain for this long, so, he couldn't possibly be anywhere near Unohana's level 1,000 years ago or something even if he was alive back then.

Time is not, has never been and will never be an issue in Bleach. Same goes with power levels.

Unohana and Kenpachi wounded each other back then because they're both bloodthirsty monsters and nothing else. There is nothing that suggests Kenpachi couldn't have matched her back then. 1000 years ago, he could have been as strong as he is now just because dude doesn't like training, just killing. The central 46 lost their shit precisely because they fear the consequences of making Kenpachi stronger.

It's pretty much canon that Kenpachi's strenght has been the same since he was roaming the rukongai. He doesn't train and doesn't need to. Common logic doesn't apply to him only brute force does. He's Kenpachi Zaraki, and all of this has been stated before in the manga. Nothing wrong with him matching the past Unohana. Nothing at all.

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Well, I don't like Ichigo and that whole power-up that is making it's way for him yet again, so I didn't like the start of the chapter.
And I didn't like that particular page either, I would've liked Unohana to stay the nice and calm smiling lady, while unleashing her wrath on Kenpachi. She looks like she's going to assault Kenpachi sexually in that page if you ask me. But then again, I'm not "actually" a Bleach fan for that matter.
And while this chapter was good overall and made me more interested in the first Gotei 13 once again, there were two things that sort of ruined it. The first is adressed by zerocooldx:




I fully agree with that. If she is as monstrous of a fighter as Kenpachi, she could've easilly made a difference in that war instead of holding back useless hollows from killing useless chad and healing useless and stupid Hiyori.

But the second thing, and I'm going to critizise Kubo's writing here once again (Oh nooooez!), is something that's just completely ridiculous.
Why does Kubo always have to make such stupid premises as: "But if you two clash swords, one of you will have to die." - oh Lord watch out for the badassery over here man!
Seriously though, this sounds like a five year old screaming for attention. It's the same thing as always, he makes a stupid prediction like that just to abbandon it. Remeber when some Shingami said: "Byakuyas and Kenpachis are in so horrible states that they won't be able to redeem their duties as Captains again!" - and here we have Kenpachi standing and fighting with monster Unohana, while Byakuya is being healed in the Royal dimenson... Neither Unohana nor Kenpachi are going to die, that would be idiotic. They need as many strong Captains as they can get and also Kubo wouldn't throw away either of those two, if he doesn't even have the balls to kill Byakuya (who he milked for everything he can at this point).
Kubo should've made Shunsui say something like this: "You probably think you know what Unohana is capable of Kenpachi, but the things she did before joing the Gotai 13 are beyond your wildest imaginations. Either you live up to your potential or you die in the Muken..." - followed by 2 chapters of Unohana horribly ripping Kenpachi apart and healing him up again, to the point where he has no choice other than to beg his Zanpaktou for help.

Please wait until the conclusion of this battle, because I feel we'll get answers for all those questions. Including the reason why she didn't interfere back in FKT. My guess is that she couldn't afford to let loose with everyone around, much like Kyoraku couldn't use his bankai in plain sight. There is a good reason why the descended all the way to Muken.

And I like Kubo's dialogue much better than yours, man... just expressing my humble opinion XD.

[Hakuteiken]

Time is not, has never been and will never be an issue in Bleach. Same goes with power levels.

Unohana and Kenpachi wounded each other back then because they're both bloodthirsty monsters and nothing else. There is nothing that suggests Kenpachi couldn't have matched her back then. 1000 years ago, he could have been as strong as he is now just because dude doesn't like training, just killing. The central 46 lost their shit precisely because they fear the consequences of making Kenpachi stronger.

It's pretty much canon that Kenpachi's strenght has been the same since he was roaming the rukongai. He doesn't train and doesn't need to. Common logic doesn't apply to him only brute force does. He's Kenpachi Zaraki, and all of this has been stated before in the manga. Nothing wrong with him matching the past Unohana. Nothing at all.

Since he's not at Unohana's level right now, how could possibly be back then? If he was already strong enough to give the most revered Kenpachi in SS history a scar, why would he need any further training and why was he labeled useless as he was right now?

[Delbi]

Since he's not at Unohana's level right now, how could possibly be back then? If he was already strong enough to give the most revered Kenpachi in SS history a scar, why would he need any further training and why was he labeled useless as he was right now?

People seem to not be able to grasp this concept.

Switching topics, I really want to know how Ichigo and Renji are going to change after all their training, and if Renji will take over as Captain of Division 6 since Byakuya is out of commission and lacks a Bankai.