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Translations: Bleach 592 by BadKarma , Gintama 506 (2)

View Poll Results: What will be the outcome of the Kenpachi battle?

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  • Stalemate

    3 3.09%
  • Unohana owns Kenpachi, Kenpachi learns about his Zanpakuto during the fight

    48 49.48%
  • Unohana dies battling Kenpachi to death while holding back

    5 5.15%
  • Kenpachi defeats Unohana fair and square, but doesn't kill her

    15 15.46%
  • Whoever wins, someone (Kyouraku or other) interferes before someone dies

    23 23.71%
  • Other (Mention in discussion)

    3 3.09%
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Thread: Bleach 523 Discussion

  1. #181
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Since he's not at Unohana's level right now, how could possibly be back then? If he was already strong enough to give the most revered Kenpachi in SS history a scar, why would he need any further training and why was he labeled useless as he was right now?
    You bring up a good point- When I read the chapter I originally thought that they had somehow sometime in the past given each other those scars.
    Unohana saying the only scar I have throbs when you speak, suggested to me, that kenpachi and the scar were related-

    Also kenpachi gesturing to his face and saying basically the same thing. that she was the one who slashed his face.


    ----

    but I guess it is possible, they are referencing battle scars in general and that they both love the pain of the scars and the thumping heat of the battle. So the scars that they each respectively obtained in battle are throbbing in anticipation of a battle where they can go all out on each other.

    I also got the sense that they might end up doing it at the end of the battle if it was a different type of manga lol

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  3. #182
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    I didn't really get what happened to kyoraku? what was he reading? unohana's letter? or a book written by her,in which she introduced herself?

  4. #183
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Necron's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
    Please wait until the conclusion of this battle, because I feel we'll get answers for all those questions. Including the reason why she didn't interfere back in FKT. My guess is that she couldn't afford to let loose with everyone around, much like Kyoraku couldn't use his bankai in plain sight. There is a good reason why the descended all the way to Muken.

    And I like Kubo's dialogue much better than yours, man... just expressing my humble opinion XD.
    He better comes up with a good explanation, because Yama-ji was ready to burn each and everyone in FKT just to kill Aizen so I would gladly like to hear what kept her (and Shunsui for that matter) from showing her full strength.

    Also it's a given his dialogue is better than mine, he probably worked on it a couple hours, I wrote mine in a minute and that's not what I mean by writing.
    But you should know at this point what I'm talking about, you know just as much as I do that neither of those is two is going to die, yet Kubo makes this enormous premise again.
    He could've easilly made one where he builds up tension without letting the audience down in the end. Just say how gruesome Unohana is and live up to that by making Kenpachi come out of there with an arm missing, but at least stay true to what you write: Unohana is a monster and will seriously tear you a new one if you don't watch out.
    Istead Kubo says this: One of the two will die. But in the end both of them will come out alive, which is not good writing if you ask me.

    To be fair, one of them might really end up dying, but the chances for that are so slim you can't even see them.
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  5. #184
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    He better comes up with a good explanation, because Yama-ji was ready to burn each and everyone in FKT just to kill Aizen so I would gladly like to hear what kept her (and Shunsui for that matter) from showing her full strength.
    Yama's Bankai is harmful to others if it is released for an extended period of time. It is likely that Shunsui's Bankai, along with Uohana's is immediately harmful to all those around them, and/or to themselves.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  6. #185
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Kenpachi doesn't have to be as strong as Unohana to be able to wound her in this type of battle, as both are bloodthirsty murderers who get turned on from touching blood, even if it's theirs. Assuming Kenpachi and Unohana actually fought and wounded each other (only one of the translations suggests this), then they completely threw away common sense and self preservation during their battle and kept fighting fueled by their killing intent until both ended up cutting each other. Both can be considered sword demons who specialize in close combat so.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  7. #186
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Anyone else notice Shunsui's words? Looks closer and you can see he was reading. Talking aloud whilst reading. My bet is those are Yama's words. He's telling us the story of Unohana, but from his point of view of reading. He's reading Yama's instructions. Why do you think Yama told her to 'stay in that place' while the VR invaded? If he were to die, she would be the only one capable of training Zaraki. Shunsui couldn't do it, he's not a Kenpachi. You can put the dots together yourself and make the picture. My opinion was that these were Yama's instructions. Not even Yama himself could train Zaraki, but who could? Unohana! This chapter shows us why. She was the first Kenpachi, the strongest shinigami, the best swordsman, mastered every style, the most ruthless killer. What's not clear so far is why she changed, but like I theorized before, she changed her ways for a reason. Zaraki named Yachiru after her. Perhaps that's the only person who he couldn't beat. And perhaps it's the same for Unohana. They may have fought a long time ago in the past and the memories are just now being rekindled.

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  9. #187
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Kenpachi doesn't have to be as strong as Unohana to be able to wound her in this type of battle, as both are bloodthirsty murderers who get turned on from touching blood, even if it's theirs. Assuming Kenpachi and Unohana actually fought and wounded each other (only one of the translations suggests this), then they completely threw away common sense and self preservation during their battle and kept fighting fueled by their killing intent until both ended up cutting each other. Both can be considered sword demons who specialize in close combat so.
    Considering she's only been cut by one other person in 1000 plus years of existing then yes, he's going to be as strong or nearly as strong as her. Nothing about Unohana suggest she is turned on by her own blood considering she's only been cut once.

    Unohana is likely at an entirely different level, and with all this new information about her it is highly likely that she stronger than all of the Gotei 13 members and even some of the Royal Guard.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  10. #188
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    what a shitty sentence the last one: one of them has to die? ahahah c'mon,all of us know that won't happen,and even if oda trolled us killing one of them,it wouldn't be really a jawdrop,but just a failure

  11. #189
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    People seem to not be able to grasp this concept.

    Switching topics, I really want to know how Ichigo and Renji are going to change after all their training, and if Renji will take over as Captain of Division 6 since Byakuya is out of commission and lacks a Bankai.
    If Byakuya is alive and being healed, there is no way that Renji is going to insult his honor by trying to take his place. None of the other captains without bankai are being replaced, so there is no need to replace Byakuya at this point. There was a reason that Kubo had Byakuya talking to Renji about Sasakibe's loyalty to Yamamoto at Sasakibe's funeral. It was to drive home the point that Renji will be too loyal to take Byakuya's place unless Byakuya dies.

  12. #190
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    what a shitty sentence the last one: one of them has to die? ahahah c'mon,all of us know that won't happen,and even if oda trolled us killing one of them,it wouldn't be really a jawdrop,but just a failure
    It means that one of them will die as an effect of awakening the bloodthirsty side of Yachiru. You wouldn't think Kubo would have put the emphasis of this chapter on that to make it clear? Likely, unlikely, it's a failure if she accomplished to give Zaraki the lession? How so, aside from her dying being a loss for a potential other fight.

    If you come here to hate, at least get the damn name right.
    Last edited by Schabrak; January 16, 2013 at 04:57 PM.
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  13. #191
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Necron's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Yama's Bankai is harmful to others if it is released for an extended period of time. It is likely that Shunsui's Bankai, along with Uohana's is immediately harmful to all those around them, and/or to themselves.
    I'm talking about the pillars of fire Yama was about to use, those things http://www.mangapanda.com/94-47594-1...apter-393.html not his bankai. They would've killed everything, all captains and probably Aizen, if not for Wonderweiss. and since every capaint was prepared to die http://www.mangapanda.com/94-47594-1...apter-393.html they might've gone all-out before that aswell.

    But we'll see if those Bankai are really so increadibly dangerous to everyone around them once they'll be shown in the future. And we better get to see those things.
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  14. #192
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sky Render's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Since he's not at Unohana's level right now, how could possibly be back then? If he was already strong enough to give the most revered Kenpachi in SS history a scar, why would he need any further training and why was he labeled useless as he was right now?
    No. Kenpachi was not "labeled useless". He was labeled a "special war potential" for a reason. It was Yhwach himself the one who took him down (NOT Royd; don't even think about that). Yhwach, the one who took down Yamamoto. And that was after he offed three captain-level foes all by himself.

    Unless your logic goes with "Unohana = Yhwach", there is still nothing that proves Kenpachi is inferior to her. For starters, we don't even know how strong she is because she hasn't fought not even once. They could be equals for all we know. The very reason Kyoraku wanted to train Kenpachi is because he's got the potential to be above everyone else. Remember the reaction of Central 46. Kyoraku trains him not because he deems him useless, but because he thinks he's one of the few that can hold a candle against the Vandenreich. You won't be seeing him training Komamura; doesn't mean Ken-chan is weaker than him and therefore needs some training.

    Kenpachi has only lost against one person, and that person is the Big Bad of the series. Think about it.

    This is like going to an One Piece Forum and saying that Shanks sucks because he got a scar from Blackbeard, who was humiliated by Magellan and yadda yadda. I keep mentioning that series because I so wish Bleach fans could be like OP fans (not talking about you precisely, mind you, even though I'm quoting you; you seem like a rational fella). I wish we could stop nitpicking at minor details for once.

    Unohana's wound was made by Kenpachi. Not confirmed, yes, but it's all the same. I'm just saying it so people don't rage whe it inevitably happens. And yes, Kenpachi was able to fight on par with her a long time ago because he was hella strong a long time ago and hasn't grown anything ever since because he, as canon explicitly says, doesn't care about training.

    Think about it.

  15. #193
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    If Byakuya is alive and being healed, there is no way that Renji is going to insult his honor by trying to take his place. None of the other captains without bankai are being replaced, so there is no need to replace Byakuya at this point. There was a reason that Kubo had Byakuya talking to Renji about Sasakibe's loyalty to Yamamoto at Sasakibe's funeral. It was to drive home the point that Renji will be too loyal to take Byakuya's place unless Byakuya dies.
    None of the other Captains have been replaced because there are few if any suitable replacements. And remember, Kyoraku is Captain Commander now and is doing things his way. Renji is going to come back more powerful and with his Bankai, Byakuya is near death at the bottom of Hot Spring in a coma state. If Kyoraku promotes him he is going to have to accept due to the dire situation SS is in.

    ---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    I'm talking about the pillars of fire Yama was about to use, those things http://www.mangapanda.com/94-47594-1...apter-393.html not his bankai. They would've killed everything, all captains and probably Aizen, if not for Wonderweiss. and since every capaint was prepared to die http://www.mangapanda.com/94-47594-1...apter-393.html they might've gone all-out before that aswell.

    But we'll see if those Bankai are really so increadibly dangerous to everyone around them once they'll be shown in the future. And we better get to see those things.
    Ah yes forgot about that.

    Perhaps the question is that those Bankai can perhaps affect thing on a different or larger scale than a mere attack can.

    Kyoraku's Shikai is a game, it is likely his Bankai is similar but much more deadly.

    As for Unohana, perhaps her Bankai releases her evil side and thus if used, she'd become evil again?

    IMO, I simply think their Bankai's haven't been released due to the plot of the manga and Kubo wanting to keep some surprises for the end. We can't use logic in regard to why and why not the characters do what they do.
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  16. #194
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sky Render's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    He better comes up with a good explanation, because Yama-ji was ready to burn each and everyone in FKT just to kill Aizen so I would gladly like to hear what kept her (and Shunsui for that matter) from showing her full strength.

    Also it's a given his dialogue is better than mine, he probably worked on it a couple hours, I wrote mine in a minute and that's not what I mean by writing.
    But you should know at this point what I'm talking about, you know just as much as I do that neither of those is two is going to die, yet Kubo makes this enormous premise again.
    He could've easilly made one where he builds up tension without letting the audience down in the end. Just say how gruesome Unohana is and live up to that by making Kenpachi come out of there with an arm missing, but at least stay true to what you write: Unohana is a monster and will seriously tear you a new one if you don't watch out.
    Istead Kubo says this: One of the two will die. But in the end both of them will come out alive, which is not good writing if you ask me.

    To be fair, one of them might really end up dying, but the chances for that are so slim you can't even see them.
    Yes, there is no way they're dying. I fail to see how that's any different from Yoh Asakura (Shaman King) and Naruto "dying" during their training in their respective mangas. It's just shonen dialogue and there is no reason to give it this much relevance. Kubo usually delivers some great lines from time to time: there's no reason to bash him for this. I find it pretty excesive.

    About Ennetsu Jigoku: yeah, I'm with you on this one. The only reason I can think of about why Yama didn't just go Zanka no Tachi on Aizen's ass is because it might have destroyed an area way larger than FKT (since it was about to destroy the whole Soul Society). I mean: Ennetsu Jigoku would have destroyed Aizen and half of the Gotei 13, while Zanka no Tachi would have ultimately killed thousands of innocent people. A little contrived, yes, but doesn't qualify as a plot hole.

    Still doesn't explain why Kyoraku, or Urahara for that matter, didn't use their full power against Aizen. About this last one, however, we can't say anything until we SEE what these bankais do. Soifon had a good reason not to use her bankai against Yoruichi; this might very well be the same. Wait and see.

  17. #195
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    None of the other Captains have been replaced because there are few if any suitable replacements. And remember, Kyoraku is Captain Commander now and is doing things his way. Renji is going to come back more powerful and with his Bankai, Byakuya is near death at the bottom of Hot Spring in a coma state. If Kyoraku promotes him he is going to have to accept due to the dire situation SS is in.
    Nice try, but you must have missed the part where Byakuya is also in the spirit dimension and privvy to the SAME healing and training methods as Ichigo and Renji, though he might need more time to recover. Given that, there is no way that Renji would accept the position or that Kyoraku would offer it to him. The Gotei 13 has never really hurried to replace captains (Think Aizen, Gin and Tousen), and being that they are at war, it's not the time to think about promotions. Even if Byakuya had died, promotions would be held after the conflict with Bach was resolved.

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