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View Poll Results: What will be the outcome of the Kenpachi battle?

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  • Stalemate

    3 3.09%
  • Unohana owns Kenpachi, Kenpachi learns about his Zanpakuto during the fight

    48 49.48%
  • Unohana dies battling Kenpachi to death while holding back

    5 5.15%
  • Kenpachi defeats Unohana fair and square, but doesn't kill her

    15 15.46%
  • Whoever wins, someone (Kyouraku or other) interferes before someone dies

    23 23.71%
  • Other (Mention in discussion)

    3 3.09%
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Thread: Bleach 523 Discussion

  1. #361
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassjaw003 View Post
    We know Yama as obviously the oldest. He looked about half age 2000 years ago when he fought Sasakibe, so I'd say he is around 4000 years old. I myself assumed he was a bit over 1000 because of the statements he made, that know Shinigami has been stronger than him in 1000 years, obviously I got that wrong.

    Next, based mostly on the look of the character, I would assume Sasakibe to be the second oldest. Followed by Unohana, not only because she was a founding member, but even before we found that out I knew this, because of how Shunsui and Ukitake talked to her, as if she was an elder or at least someone above them (in age).

    Next would of course be Shunsui and Ukitake, with Shunsui being a bit older. Maybe Kenpachi is relatively close in age to these people as well, we know he has to be older than 1000 years because he found Unohana before, and it seems she was relatively different after the war, unless of course they fought after the war and it took a while before she became Retsu.


    I am still a bit confused about this timeline though. The "Divisions" now known as the Gotei 13 were thugs, and it seems they were this until the war were they found justice in defeating the Quincy. But it seems that more than a 1000 years ago, with Shunsui, and more than 2000 years ago with Sasakibe, Yama was a teacher. There was of course the Soul Society (or in some form of a SS) before the war, but if Yama had a band of thugs, why was he a teacher as well.

    Maybe I missed something and someone can fill me in.
    Yeah, I wondered the same thing. Yama seems to have been a nurturing figure, having founded the Academy and taken them under his wing, as well as Sasakibe previously, which rather contradicts Bach's description of him. I suppose it's worth remembering that there was no love lost between Yama and Bach. Yamamoto's 'murderous' side may just have been reserved for his enemies (he showed the same kind of extremeness when he was about to kill himself and all his subordinates in order to take out Aizen). There's no reason for him to have ever shown Bach his caring side; Bach could just be biased.

    I've always thought Shunsui and Ukitake were around 400 years old, though I don't know how I came to that figure specifically. I was always under the impression that the Shinigami Academy was 1000 years old, but evidently it's a lot older than that. So I guess Sasakibe was 2000+ years old, Unohana is even older than that, and Shunsui and Ukitake are under 1000 years old (I'm guessing that the picture of Zanka no Tachi Shunsui saw was made after Yama used it against Bach 1000 years ago).



    Quote Originally Posted by Glassjaw003 View Post
    I question strikes me when I think of Unohana. Do you guys and gals think she has always had this murderous tendincy, even as Retsu? Or Did she actually change and the return of the Quincy and everything that came with that, changed that?

    I'm under the impression that she actually found this justice and changed, but the return of the Quincy made her revert. But I know another who believes that she was just hiding her true self all this time.
    I think it's less to do with the Quincy's return and more to do with Yamamoto's demise. He's the one who originally reined her in after all, and she's been working under him for over 2000 years. But still, even after his death she seemed hesitant to go back to her own ways. When the RG showed up and Kirinji told her her healing days were over, she didn't look happy about it. After Bach's words about how the Gotei 13 went soft, I suppose they've realised that the only way to beat the Vandenreich is to be as brutal as they are. Unohana can't afford to let her killing abilities go to waste any more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glassjaw003 View Post
    Oh and one more addition to this post. People probably already spoke on this, but anyone else wonder if the way to get a Zanpakuto was through its creator, then how did Ichigo get one? Yes he got stabbed, but he didn't keep Rukia's. Also, the creator doesn't look that old, unless there is a time difference where he lives, compared to Yama, how did the Shinigami before him get one?

    Of course the idea of someone creating a Zanpakuto changes how we all think of them, maybe you have this power but a Zanpakuto is just a way of using it.

    I'm under the impression that these Asauchi are mimicked after a people or family that is born with them, like Ichigo.

    When Oetsu mentioned that the Asauchi were angry because of how Renji and Ichigo treated their own Zanpakuto, all I could think of, when he was naming off how they are treating their Zanpakuto as "partners, tools, pets, etc" that you are supposed to treat them as if they are you, because that is how they are formed.



    Anyways, I know that was a lot, feel free to break it into even more pieces! I'll stick around for a while.
    I can't really be sure why Ichigo has a Zanpakuto, having never been given an Asauchi. It may be that his Hollow power allowed him to manifest his powers without the tools Shinigami have to use, in the same way Arrancar form their Zanpakuto out of pure power. It could be something Urahara did when he awakened Ichigo's powers. Or it could be that the strongest Shinigami have never needed Asauchi - Bankai users are the only Shinigami capable of manifesting their Zan spirit physically, maybe they've always had the power to create Zanpakutos independently because of that, and Asauchi were only created to allow common Shinigami to bring their own powers out.

  2. #362
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    damn, why has kubo changed his mind and let so many people die. this is so strange. i liked that chapter, but why cant he let us know who ichigos father really is, we are waiting now years for the answer
    why has the captain commander has to die, will orochihime revive him?
    i start to dislike bleach
    i there an interview from this year with kubo, how the manga will continue?
    We all suggestet that unohano is the strongest. but why is there no flashabck?

  3. #363
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    He had no idea he was going to be defeated by a mere human. If he even remotely considered that probability, Aizen would have killed Ichigo in the first place with ease.
    Breaking out isn't an option, but SS might be forced to unleash the evil to defeat the big evil at some point.
    Or maybe, he was testing Ichigo out and see how powerful he was in order to test whether he can stand up against teh Quincies. I'm sure Aizen planned for having at least one ally to help him fight the Quincies. It's Aizen after all. Aizen's still alive, and he didn't panic or look scared or anything when we saw him in the courthouse.

    Dunno, Aizen could break out. It's Aizen, remember. Dude knows everything that goes on, apparently. He planned Ichigo's fate, and let's remember that Rukia is still alive.

  4. #364
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    do we really understand why aizen plans ichigos evolution during the last couple of years? kubo didnt explained it to us
    he has to answer so many questiions and is only waisting our time

  5. #365
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Well, aizen did mention he wanted to understand and devour ichigo in some form.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...9-page-18.html
    I don't think aizen ever looked past his own ambition in regards to ichigo's growth. He wanted to benefit from ichigo becoming as great as he can be. A transcendental is something which aizen would at large have been unfamiliar with so studying the only actual known case of one makes sense. His problem was arrogance in a sense. He himself achieved a level of transcendentality however he was still inferior to ichigo. The result was that when ichigo finally faced him aizen did not even consider the scenario of ichigo simply being beyond him. His immediate thought was the logical absurd of ichigo being able to face transcendental aizen via discarding his reiatsu and facing him with strength, basically ichigo fighting a battle against transcendental reiatsu without a speck of reiatsu. If aizen had considered earlier that ichigo could have simply stood higher than he did perhaps he could have had a chance to do some of the devouring he had planned.

  6. #366
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    you are right
    but isnt is possible, that aizen can escape and can help the shinigami to defeat bach and co

  7. #367
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Well, by now SS should have already dealt with aizen, it would have been a priority even if it happened off screen. Juhabach literally destroyed the prison aizen was in, after vandenreich left I really doubt they would have left the matter unattended for days. More so, juhabach himself did not seem to have actually released aizen from his bonds, rather he seemed to have left him to his own thoughts with the bonds on meaning that aizen could not have escaped on his own. Aizen is likely not in the same prison he used to be however wherever he is I doubt he can escape on his own. Of course, there is the scenario where he manages to escape on his own because he was capable of that from the get go but that IMO is unlikely.

    As far as aizen escaping goes I would argue it won't quite go like that. Rather, I think that aizen will be released at some point. He might get released by SS, he might get released by ichigo, someone else might go for him.... My own crack pot theory is that at some point ichigo will realize aizen was talking precisely about ichigo being part quincy/human or something of the sort so his first option to cracking the mystery will be to find aizen. Once that happens all we need is an scenario where aizen being released makes sense which kubo could deliver in a number of ways.

    Now, seeing the manga developments, there is something kinda off IMO. As far as we saw vandenreich only got an easy victory over SS because of the badges. The captains did not show they were too weak to win per say but rather they could not use their true power and the quincy could. That works even with byakuya who got his ass handed to him by his own bankai. In this regard, what happens to vandenreich once the shinigami get their bankai back? What about SS allies? In the end vandenreich has to deal with 12 captains, 5 royals, 11 VCs, urahara, tessai, yoruichi, ishin, ichigo, chad, ishida, ishida, kukaku, ganju, grimmjow, nel, harribel (maybe) and the fullbringers apparently.

    Vandenreich seemingly has 27 stern rittern plus a few other weird numbers perhaps if they have the complete alfabet which is a nice number however as far as we saw it does seem like stern rittern do vary between captain and VC level strength to some degree. So... once the badge issue is removed wouldn't vandenreich be at a disadvantage to some degree? JUhabach could be a match for yamamoto however we are talking about a huge difference in numbers and that does not even consider the royals must be exceptional powerhouses on their own and that 5(driscol, 3 killed by kenpachi, domino) stern rittern died during the incursion. In particular the issue would lie in facing the royal guard. How does juhabach plan on facing them? As far as we saw only 16 stern rittern went there meaning that 10 or 11 more should have remained at the shadow area however how would that offset the balance if the royal guard and bankai becomes an issue? It seems like vandenreich is at the moment rather outmatched IMO. Perhaps juhabach keeps another separate force alongside the stern rittern? As far as we know juhabach wants to become the king so perhaps he already has his own equivalent to the royal guard for when he gets to that place with his own group of people who have accomplished remarkable stuff.

  8. #368
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    But dude, it's Aizen. I'm sure he can escape on his own. Wasn't he or isn't he the most powerful, even without that powerup? I just can't see him being constrained like this, but since this is the last arc, he might not be able to escape. I still think he'll play a major role in taking down the Quincies, especially Juha Bach. Has Ichigo ever had any boss fights where he didn't get his ass saved?

    Of course, I could see Aizen turning good permanently after realizing the folly of his ways.

  9. #369
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    I don't expect a twist from Aizen's side, but his actions could be justified by some sort of explaining. I'd be fine with it. If he just decides tobe good out of nowhere, that would be some sort of dull story development, an overly expected trick.

  10. #370
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But dude, it's Aizen. I'm sure he can escape on his own. Wasn't he or isn't he the most powerful, even without that powerup? I just can't see him being constrained like this, but since this is the last arc, he might not be able to escape. I still think he'll play a major role in taking down the Quincies, especially Juha Bach. Has Ichigo ever had any boss fights where he didn't get his ass saved?

    Of course, I could see Aizen turning good permanently after realizing the folly of his ways.
    Well, but what can he do on his own? I mean, SS placed a number of restraints on him as far as we know and juhabach did not release them. So whatever what was done to him in the end should pretty much stop him from using even a speck of his power whatever it might. If aizen can escape by his own power then it would basically mean he could have escaped at any point during the last 2 years and instead willingly chose not to. Otherwise he needs to be freed by someone. Note that I have suggested a number of times aizen might find some redemption during the arc before, I am not against the idea. Its just the idea of him escaping on his own that is extremely weird and would not make much sense unless he was able to escape all along. In the end someone in the squads should have to take out juhabach or be able to stand to him and so far shunsui is fodder to the guy as far as we know.

  11. #371
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    What if Aizen placed some kind of a way to escape his bindings, though? Didn't he go into the headquarters or the central before? He could have done everything to allow him to break out, but didn't do so because he wasn't strong enough to take on Gotei 13 or supposedly Ichigo at that point. If he broke out, he'd be sought after and captured, but if he broke out and helped or tried to help Gotei 13, they'd be less likely to react negatively towards him.

  12. #372
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    In the end someone in the squads should have to take out juhabach or be able to stand to him and so far shunsui is fodder to the guy as far as we know.
    It would make more sense if Captain-Commander's two pupils together made a stand to avenge him against Bach. Without making more of a mess in power levels, it would certainly make sense, both from an emotional point of view and also, a rational one.
    But for that to be happening, they would first have to take care of the opponents they had a stalemate against in the first assault.

  13. #373
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    M3J: What I don't get is if Aizen was able to escape, he would've done so earlier. I find it hard to believe that there could be someone in the whole of Gotei that'd be able to stop him after so many overhougyokuifications (holy shit, what a long word ) with Ichi being powerless after FGT. And now that the nightmare moon (no My little pony pun intended) is back, going on a rampage should be... bad for him.
    I can't imagine that being the conceited bastard he is, he'd just break free and go help shinigami. The most likely thing he'd do if he could escape would be waiting until the next VR-SS clash, creating the Ouken and kicking the Spirit king's ass. But that'd be quite the cataclysm, so... no. He may be freed, though - the more former antagonists on the move, the merrier
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  14. #374
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    It would make more sense if Captain-Commander's two pupils together made a stand to avenge him against Bach. Without making more of a mess in power levels, it would certainly make sense, both from an emotional point of view and also, a rational one.
    But for that to be happening, they would first have to take care of the opponents they had a stalemate against in the first assault.
    Well, shunsui and 8 others fell against aizen during the previous arc and each of them got easily bitchslaped... In this scenario we are talking about the very same shunsui minus 7 companions and the one he does have is prone to plot induced sickness. I just wouldn't buy that bankai shunsui and ukitake would be able to do what 8 failed to do against aizen with juhabach. While there would be a certain plot related awesomeness to the affair, the only thing which would be less rational than this happening is shunsui and ukitake lasting more than 8 consecutive seconds.

  15. #375
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    M3J: What I don't get is if Aizen was able to escape, he would've done so earlier. I find it hard to believe that there could be someone in the whole of Gotei that'd be able to stop him after so many overhougyokuifications (holy shit, what a long word ) with Ichi being powerless after FGT. And now that the nightmare moon (no My little pony pun intended) is back, going on a rampage should be... bad for him.
    I can't imagine that being the conceited bastard he is, he'd just break free and go help shinigami. The most likely thing he'd do if he could escape would be waiting until the next VR-SS clash, creating the Ouken and kicking the Spirit king's ass. But that'd be quite the cataclysm, so... no. He may be freed, though - the more former antagonists on the move, the merrier
    The thing is, him breaking free would certainly get Gotei 13 after his ass, especially without distractions impairing them. In the state Aizen's in, he'd likely lose. Now with the threat, Aizen can break free and either get away or help Gotei 13 out for his own agenda. Or at the least, help beat up Quincies. He wouldn't necessarily have to turn good to help them out, just have his own reasons for doing so.

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