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Translations: Bleach 592 by BadKarma , Gintama 506 (2)

View Poll Results: What will be the outcome of the Kenpachi battle?

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  • Stalemate

    3 3.09%
  • Unohana owns Kenpachi, Kenpachi learns about his Zanpakuto during the fight

    48 49.48%
  • Unohana dies battling Kenpachi to death while holding back

    5 5.15%
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  • Whoever wins, someone (Kyouraku or other) interferes before someone dies

    23 23.71%
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Thread: Bleach 523 Discussion

  1. #331
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    hory shit! how old that phoenix guy is??? 1000 years ago yamamoto had already achieved his bankai,it means he had his sword for some years. but the gotei 13 didn't exist yet,so how could that guy have been a captain and joined the royal guards? probably he was just an elite shinigami,as captains didn't exist yet either.

  2. #332
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    here's my problem with Killing Unohana, for it to be worth it as far as battle strength of the Gotei 13 the new and improved Zaraki would have to be like Unohana x 2 (like another Yamamoto) otherwise you're losing 2 amazing fighters for 1 amazing fighter who's a lil stronger.... example.... Unohana power level 10, Zaraki 7, after the training and death of Unohana, Zaraki 2.0 is now at lvl 20....

    Myself I'd rather have the 2 fighters myself

  3. #333
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    hory shit! how old that phoenix guy is??? 1000 years ago yamamoto had already achieved his bankai,it means he had his sword for some years. but the gotei 13 didn't exist yet,so how could that guy have been a captain and joined the royal guards? probably he was just an elite shinigami,as captains didn't exist yet either.
    Well, yamamoto had already achieved his bankai well over 2000 years ago which is just about the time sasakibe got his own. I would think it is a simple matter of the military force of SS from back then having a differently structured military organization. I get the impression that when the quincy conflict escalated yamamoto took a step forward and simply gathered a bunch of previously uncontrollable shinigami and started the 13 squads as we know them. Perhaps back then before that it was yamamoto on sheer badassery keeping the quincy in check alongside a few select powerful shinigami (sasakibe among them). Perhaps at the time there was just 1 leader of the military force of SS leading a bunch of captain level shinigami and then a number low level shinigami. Once yamamoto recruited those thugs he changed the structure of the military force to keep them busy instead of returning to being criminals.

    ---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Renaan View Post
    here's my problem with Killing Unohana, for it to be worth it as far as battle strength of the Gotei 13 the new and improved Zaraki would have to be like Unohana x 2 (like another Yamamoto) otherwise you're losing 2 amazing fighters for 1 amazing fighter who's a lil stronger.... example.... Unohana power level 10, Zaraki 7, after the training and death of Unohana, Zaraki 2.0 is now at lvl 20....

    Myself I'd rather have the 2 fighters myself
    It depends on how much stronger zaraki gets in the end. Zaraki has no technique whatsoever and no control over his reiatsu at large and even then using two hands is enough for him to easily kill a espada. Improving his swordsmanship, learning how to use his reiatsu better and maybe even the name of his zampakuto could make him much MUCH stronger than unohana. With the war situation as it is zaraki mastering his powers a bit could easily be well worth the cost of losing unohana, specially if tenjirou is taking over the healing of the squads. The consideration we have to make is that wars in bleach are mostly determined by who the strongest enemy is. Aizen was stronger than the 10 espada and at least 8 captain level shinigami as far as we saw, yamamoto alone exceeded the entire might of the gotei 13.... Juhabach seemingly is far stronger than any other quincy we have seen, perhaps and even probably in the same category as aizen or yamamoto. In this regard, the gotei 13 are better off with a kenpachi capable of at least stalling juhabach than with easily defeatable unohana or kenpachi (against jugabach).

    ---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

    I was just thinking about tousen and arrancar. In a flashback we saw him taking the zampakuto of his fallen friend and perhaps the current chapter explains how this was possible. Since the asauchi is a being independent of the shinigami in some regards it is not implausible for tousen to be able to take and use the zampakuto of a falling shinigami. I don't think you can just use the zampakuto of a another shinigami however it would not be strange that he was able to take the sword and imprint his own essence into it. Since the zampakuto had a previous essence, that of that woman who died, it was able to retain some aspects of her power hence why tousen had two releases. Benihiko would have perhaps been a remnant of her left in the sword while the cricket related techniques were born from his own power. Of course, I would expect a sword to have issues with suddenly serving another shinigami. The whole thing implies the sword actually even changing names and powers along with a change of allegiance to some degree. Perhaps the reason tousen was able to pull that off was because he already had deep respect and perhaps love for that woman.

    As for arrancar, the whole process IMO got a decent bit weirder. In particular the weird part is that hollows to some extent are able to naturally become arrancar. Asauchi are not, as of now, a naturally occurring thing within shinigami. They are made (birthed?) and given to shinigami so that they can mold into their power. How does removing a mask result in something like a zampakuto appearing? The whole thing is very off IMO and it needs some serious explaining. I can buy the hyogoku molding an arrancar's essence and power into a zampakuto however how does an arrancar form naturally? Perhaps the issue at hand is that the zampakutp could be inspired on hollow powers to begin with. How a zampakuto is molded is extremely similar to how a fullbring is made to begin with and perhaps the externalization of powers a zampakuto seemingly allows was actually based on how natural arrancar happened to begin with. Observing how natural arrancar molded their power into a separate object and observing how objects could seemingly take on shapes based on the memories of the owner is perhaps how the concept of zampakuto was initially developed.

    Now, the last issue would be just how asauchi are born to begin with. Asauchi can only be one thing, they can only be some manner of soul. Where do they come from? Why do they serve shinigami? Perhaps the actual asauchi is birthed from the soul king? Or perhaps they naturally occur and nimaiya gave them purpose by making them into zampakuto?

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  5. #334
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    @kkck: Another thing that hasn't yet been explained is how exactly Ichigo got his zanpakuto: he wasn't given an Asauchi, so how did he get one?
    If he used Rukia's, then how did she got hers back while Ichigo got another.

    A possible explanation is that Urahara managed to create another Asauchi (given that he copied one RG invention already, maybe he could do another) and then give it to Ichigo.

    However, that still leaves expaling Hitsugaya, who had ice powers before he was given a zanpakuto.

    One thing that makes me wonder is this: zangetsu said that he and hollow Ichigo are the same, could it be that asauchi are also part hollow themselves?
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
    LMFAO

  6. #335
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    kkck
    I think Kubo implied that Haribel had something to do with giving birth to new arrancar, the cut from Juha talking about new ones to her seemed to imply so.
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  7. #336
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    So rereading and rewatching it seems that Asauchi are not a requirement, although it seems Ichigo does indeed alter Rukia's original Zanpaktuo to create Zangetsu (we never again see her with a sword till after the SS arc)

    Now we come to the Shattered Shaft, they put Ichigo down there with nothing, yet when he comes back out he has the broken pieces of Rukia's sword again, was it stored in his soul? his ass? who knows.... he reformed it again after Urahara cut it down to the handle/hilt also which is technically still the same sword he took from Rukia.

    How does this effect Rukia, if Rukia can just go get another sword to replace what Ichigo took and still be able to go into Shikai np and use all her abilities, can't everyone?

  8. #337
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member deadsuit's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrCristian View Post
    You are so wrong in many ways.
    Aizen did kill jis camrades himself, one example is Gin, another examples are from back in the flashbacks when he killed many more (when he made the Vizards).
    The bankai could not be stolen because the one that tried to steal it wasn't strong enough, not because it's ability is unknown.

    Even I, that doesn't really put much tought into details, know that.
    Dude, sorry i'm "wrong in so many ways".

    And why the F wouldn't Bach or Haschwald steal Ichigo's bankai then? They were clearly strong enough to steal it. It was Strongly implied that the VR fear bankai, why not eliminate Ichigo's?

    Also, you don't have to act hard on the internet or talk down to people.

  9. #338
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ruhina's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    ehhh... how about an alternate prediction.


    1.. unohana is unscathed as zakari takes several wounds...

    2.. zakari is confused.... doesnt get why his skills are inferior..

    3... unohana is sublime in her skill and lectures while slashing zakari until he drops his blade.

    4..unohana heals him... then they resume fighting.

    5 unohana breaks zakaris shikai, and stabs zakari in the chest... he falls like ichigo did,...

    6.. kenpachi learns something and possibly has an ichigo moment where he is near death an finally hears or sees his zanpaktou
    zakari gets his new zanpaktou (cool new shape, no longer howling in pain with serrated edges) and wounds unohana deeply...

    7... unohana sits there wounded as zakari walks off ... no fun to fight weaklings... lol
    Hey it's just a prediction, one based on the formula seen so far in the manga. Your prediction is nice as well, I'll just add that it'll take as many chapters as your points to reach the end of that battle. :P

    Seriously, both characters are really popular (one who hasn't DONE anything in the manga yet) so it's quite impossible that either of them will actually die in a pit fight. All the people who's died so far has been pretty much side characters, except Yamamoto, just to show off the Quincy's powers.

  10. #339
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, yamamoto had already achieved his bankai well over 2000 years ago which is just about the time sasakibe got his own. I would think it is a simple matter of the military force of SS from back then having a differently structured military organization. I get the impression that when the quincy conflict escalated yamamoto took a step forward and simply gathered a bunch of previously uncontrollable shinigami and started the 13 squads as we know them. Perhaps back then before that it was yamamoto on sheer badassery keeping the quincy in check alongside a few select powerful shinigami (sasakibe among them). Perhaps at the time there was just 1 leader of the military force of SS leading a bunch of captain level shinigami and then a number low level shinigami. Once yamamoto recruited those thugs he changed the structure of the military force to keep them busy instead of returning to being criminals.
    wait,where did you read that??? kyoraku wasn't even there 1000 years ago,during the first war against juha bach. and saskibe should have been born during the same years of kyoraku, but surely none of them were there during the first war.

  11. #340
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    wait,where did you read that??? kyoraku wasn't even there 1000 years ago,during the first war against juha bach. and saskibe should have been born during the same years of kyoraku, but surely none of them were there during the first war.
    Sasakibe was way older than Kyouraku by logic. He was there long before the Shinigami academy or the current Gotei 13 was established.

  12. #341
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Not only by logic, but also by seen flashbacks and words spoken. When Sasakibe applied to be his right hand man, Yamamoto was still just the head of a sword school, later on he may have put those thirteen people under his command, ceated the academy and Gotei 13.There are around 1000 yeaps apart between Choujiro showing his Bankai and Shinsui asking about Shogekuni's.
    Last edited by Schabrak; January 20, 2013 at 12:27 PM.
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  13. #342
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    wait,where did you read that??? kyoraku wasn't even there 1000 years ago,during the first war against juha bach. and saskibe should have been born during the same years of kyoraku, but surely none of them were there during the first war.
    Remember the flashback from when yamamoto fought driscol? That one flashback took place 2000 years ago and yamamoto was already fairly old apparently and by all logic had already mastered bankai. Shunsui in turn was a kid seemingly even after the quincy were defeated 1000 years ago. More so, during sasakibe's funeral byakuya revealed sasakibe mastered his bankai long before shunsui and ukitake were even born.

    ---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    @kkck: Another thing that hasn't yet been explained is how exactly Ichigo got his zanpakuto: he wasn't given an Asauchi, so how did he get one?
    If he used Rukia's, then how did she got hers back while Ichigo got another.

    A possible explanation is that Urahara managed to create another Asauchi (given that he copied one RG invention already, maybe he could do another) and then give it to Ichigo.

    However, that still leaves expaling Hitsugaya, who had ice powers before he was given a zanpakuto.

    One thing that makes me wonder is this: zangetsu said that he and hollow Ichigo are the same, could it be that asauchi are also part hollow themselves?
    I don't think the issue itself needs that much explaining. Ichigo getting an asauchi the conventional way does not make sense however that simply suggests he did not get it via the academy as other shinigami. At the moment the simplest explanation and the most logical one is that at some point urahara or perhaps ishin gave him an asauchi. Perhaps the origin of the asauchi would make an interesting plot point in the future though.

    I don't think ichigo ever used rukia's though. Rather, the asauchi we saw ichigo use would have been the one given to him at some undisclosed point in the past. Once ichigo started using rukia's shinigami powers he simply used the asauchi that his soul had.

    The asauchi as explained this chapter takes a form based on the essence of the soul of a shinigami. That would simply suggest that hitsugaya simply had an affinity for ice to begin with.

    Of course, there are still a few unexplained plot points, there are a few weird things about the hitsugaya bit. Hitsugaya actually had visions of hyorinmaru if I recall. The asauchi at the royal palace don't seem to be actual swords at the moment, perhaps that is the issue here? There aren't that many souls with spiritual power to begin with and we know for a fact that every soul that goes into SS passes through shinigami filters and are assigned a place to live at. Perhaps at that point shinigami do something so that a zampakuto can be available to a shinigami? Perhaps the soul of the zampakuto is placed within a shinigami at that stage and at that point they can get an asauchi from the academy or perhaps by calling out to the spirit they can form their own sword.

    I would think that urahara has at this point learned a bit from every royal guard. If anything everything he has done seems to go around their deeds to some degree. I actually wonder about ururu and ginta. Could they be asauchi or some variation of it? It would make sense if urahara was actually the one who made the asauchi that would turn into zangetsu though. I would find it a tad strange that urahara had that sort of capacity and did not fix renji's bankai when he trained with chad though.

    ____________________________

    One thing I am wondering about is just what exactly nimaiya and the asauchi are trying to teach ichigo and renji about their relationship with their zampakuto. Wouldn't zangetsu or zabimaru have said something if there was something wrong there? If we take nimaiya's words then most of the shinigami zampakuto relations seems to be kinda wrong though. Perhaps the issue lies at the part of which comes first. Perhaps the issue is that renji and ichigo take advantage of their zampakuto putting renji and ichigo first? Renji was kinda reckless when he fought byakuya and ichigo insisted on fighting juhabach after he was already withdrawing... Perhaps what nimaiya is trying to teach them is that zampakuto do not go after shinigami but rather stand as equal to them? That even if they are willing to risk their own lives for a cause it does not give them the right to actually be reckless with their zampakuto?.

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  15. #343
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    hory shet! thanks guys,I forgot that part. so...how old that phoenix guy is??? he must have created zampakuto over 2000 years. not to mention that their leader is even older than them (the RG's leader,that is)

  16. #344
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Older than two thousand years, younger than a million. We have no information regarding the age of the first zanpakatou, maybe we will once this story part is over or we get to see Soul King talk about the beginning sometime in the future.
    Last edited by Schabrak; January 20, 2013 at 02:35 PM.
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  17. #345
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 523 Discussion / 524 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    My guess is that the strongest Shinigami were able to inject their spirit and reiatsu into regular swords and through that method a rare few and powerful, completely from scratch, created what became known as Zanpakuto.
    Well said. I found your theory pretty plausible. Unless Nimaiya was himself the one that started the concept of Shinigami, this is the most likely scenario if you think about it for a while.

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