The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

[xXan]

@NinjaStar


His fights involved him having comrades on the battlefield. He would MOST DEFENETLY defened them and himself. At best you can claim he would not land the killing blow if possible but no moron would not go all out because he likes peace. Those where life and death situation where he was puting his life, the life of his comrades and the future of his clan on the line. There is no way he was going easy on Madara because he likes peace.

Oviously if he could complete his mission by avoiding fighting Madara he would take it BUT if the engage happened he would fight to his best. In the end Hashirama was a shinobi.

[marshall313]

It's so incredibly illogical to say that Madara as he is right now wouldn't "do shit" to Hashirama.

I mean:
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...5-page-12.html

So, basically.....correct me if I'm wrong, please:

Hashirama was stronger Madara. That's established.
so......ET Madara w/ Rinnegan and Hashirama's abilities can't touch Hashirama?

That makes so little sense I don't even know how to argue against it.


My interpretation: The only reason Hashirama might still be able to stop an overpowered immortal zombie is because that zombie uses the Mokuton that Hashirama so beautifully developed. As it is now, Hashirama does not have the same lasting power that Madara currently has, even with his special healing abilities and what have you.

I'm not even going to touch the main point of the thread. All I have to say is WOW.

Madara said that only hashirama can stop HIM now. He was talking directly to himself, not on a jutsus or for being a zombie but rather on his caliber right now.

Well, maybe madara forgetting something that he's an ET and had the rinnegan when he claimed those statement.

And maybe kabuto lied about something. He was a mad sciencetist who did the experiment on madara's body/powers. So maybe he just forgot to include madara on the list,that

Hashirama's power is a myth like the rikudou's sennin.

But rather, madara and hashirama's power are a myth like the rikudou sennin. Yeah,

With that, we can assume that madara already surpassed hashiram when he gained the rinnegan.
With that, we can assume that madara's power can touch hashirama.
With that, we can assume that madara can easily kick hashirama's ass.

But the problem is, what if kabuto didn't lied?

What if kabuto knew that the difference between madara's power aka rinnegan couldn't still surpassed hashirama's power, who died last 50 years ago?

Do you really think that the legendary power of madara is almost comparable to hashirama's power as a myth?

[Xiraiya]

I'm not convinced Hashirama could stop Edo Madara, I do think he can stop EMS Madara however, they are probably pretty close in power, I would say Hiruzen is a step below that with the 2nd Hokage under him.

I do not believe Hiruzen could defeat Hashirama but I do believe both he and Minato could hold their own in that group of power houses, you can't take what we saw then VS what we saw now, words are important, all dialogue implies people like Minato and Hiruzen could fall under that tier of power with Madara and the like, you have to account for the fact that Kishi's art and thoughts have changed over the years, do you think if Madara was fighting around when the Chuunin exam happened, that it would be anything like today?

No, the power was scaled on an entirely different level, it doesn't mean the dead characters all magically got stronger per say, it means their power is displayed differently.

[IChallengeYou!]

As if his current power isn't enough to defeat the man who trashed him like a fodder

You lost your entire credibility when you have said this, why do you still bother?

[Kay3795]

Hishirama is in fact capable of stopping Madara (it doesn't mean he is stronger now but he is capable of stopping him). From Madara's own words, you should understand that.
"I told you already, only Hashirama is capable of stopping me". http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...89-page-7.html

Irrespective of what the fanbase says, they cannot deny what Madara said. You cannot speak for the man who witnessed Hishirama's very power. There must be a reason why he said what he said & whether you want to accept it or not, it doesn't change the fact.

It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.

[Uchiha_Blood]

It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.

Kishi costantly ignores or goes against the databooks, things that people pay money to have, believing them to have any weight in importance.
I don't think he cares about random interviews he made to please his fans

[Kay3795]

Kishi costantly ignores or goes against the databooks, things that people pay money to have, believing them to have any weight in importance.
I don't think he cares about random interviews he made to please his fans

It wasn't just databooks or interviews but it was also implied in the manga. Kishi wasn't obligated to say whom was stronger either yet he said it (thus until he says otherwise, we can't oppose his words regardless of our doubts).

[marshall313]

You lost your entire credibility when you have said this, why do you still bother?

Well, that's your opinion.

But does it OK for someone to say that minato is a bug compared to madara? Has he lost his credibility too?

It's OK for someone to say that minato is freaking useless to any of the uchiha, especially to sasuke? Has they lost their credibility too?

It's OK for someone to say that minato is a fodder to itachi? Does they lost their credibility too?

If not, then saying that I lost my credibility when I said that madara is a fodder compared to hashirama is somehow a biased argument.

Madara used the kyubi to fight hashirama? Why? Because his power isn't enough to defeat hashirama.
Madara is just lucky on why he's still alive. While hashirama, after that fight was still alright.
Madara hiding on the cave for how many years? Even though hashirama is already dead.
Madara gained that rinnegan and yet he was so fond to used hashirama's jutsus, why? Because he remembered how those jutsu bitchslapped him.
The way ha hailed hashirama's name, and the way he remembering the old times together with hashirama is kinda odd. He was no doubt jealous on hashirama's power/caliber.

And lastly, the way kabuto defined hashirama's power as a myth like the rikudou is enough for me to say that their power level, even now, aren't comparable. It's just my opinion. Nothing more.

That ''fodder''was specifically counter to someone's post for saying that minato is a bug. Because for God's sake, minato and hashirama are the only one who can kill madara. Not itachi and there's no way in hell that t'was sasuke.

A bug who can kill madara in an instant isnt a useless bug at all. If that bug can't really fight madara head on, then he can seal him in an instant. End of game. Thus the bug is useless? I doubt that.

[KingOfNight]

It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.

Slow down there, don't involve Minato in everything. The only one that was said to be stronger than Hashirama is Hiruzen. Minato doesn't come close to Hashirama and Madara's tier.

[Kay3795]

Slow down there, don't involve Minato in everything. The only one that was said to be stronger than Hashirama is Hiruzen.

That's false. Kishi mentioned Minato & Sarubobi being the strongest dead ninjas.

[KingOfNight]

That's false. Kishi mentioned Minato & Sarubobi being the strongest dead ninjas.

That's a false & fake interview. It's quite astonishing someone still believes it.

[Uchiha_Blood]

It wasn't just databooks or interviews but it was also implied in the manga. Kishi wasn't obligated to say whom was stronger either yet he said it (thus until he says otherwise, we can't oppose his words regardless of our doubts).

Where, in Part 2, was implied that Hiruzen > Hashirama?
As 3c showed, Dan and Kabuto's statements pretty much shatters Iruka's statement

[Kay3795]

That's a false & fake interview. It's quite astonishing someone still believes it.

It wasn't proven fake or false.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

Where, in Part 2, was implied that Hiruzen > Hashirama?
As 3c showed, Dan and Kabuto's statements pretty much shatters Iruka's statement

Dan's personal opinion vs Kishi's very statement. It's like Shikamaru's dada said (about legends).

[KingOfNight]

It wasn't proven fake or false.

Please stop, it was proven fake years ago. Just stop. Even ShounenSuki the personal translator of the Naruto's wiki, proved it's a fake interview. So just stop.

[Hakuteiken]

Madara probably referred to his then-current state when he said only Hashirama was capable of stopping him. He fought Hashirama many times and knew of his power more than anyone else. It'll be pretty bold if I said Hashirama would be able to defeat Madara with Rinnegan. However, he'd most likely force Madara into using his Rinnegan abilities. Because he had the power to withstand the Perfect Susano'o.

Moreover, since the Mokuton Madara is using is an ability created from Hashirama's cells, I'm almost certainly positive that Madara's Mokuton is inferior to that of Hashirama's. Just like Kakashi's Sharingan, Yamato's Mokuton, Nagato's Rinnegan proved us, an unnaturally gained ability cannot stand up to its master's prowess.
That's why Hashirama would still be the only one that could possibly stand up to Madara even by today's standards, or, to say the very least, ihe would be the dead last person Madara would want to face off (also, in a way, the first person, since he really wanted to defeat him, out of admiration and hatred, explained by himself).