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As i said before. When Madara decides to stop laughing he 1 shoots Sarutobi. What we had back then its no longer relevant. Now its just hype at best. The manga evolves over time and there is NO way one can expect Kishi to know what he will end up doing 10 years later... Retcons happen...
It was made damn clear that only Hashirama could stop Madara even the EMS version. The curent one... Would have for brakefast Hashirama, Tobirama, Sarutobi and Minato at the same time... He would just take a big dump on all of them. He is COMPLETLY and i mean COMPLETLY broken. He was playing with the 5 kages like they where KIDS. The 5 kages could not do SHIT to his ultimate Susano....
Thing is i just said the Madara thing as i get bored of this arguments. Its no diferent then that 1 page showing how Jman can take Kisame and Itachi and even if they bring help it would not make any diference LOL! When Pein ALONE owned JMan.
Last edited by xXan; December 28, 2012 at 05:39 AM.
Point being, if Kishi needed to Hiruzen could easily be a beast even with "normal" abilities, unfortunately as you said what Hiruzen showed is now worthless:
handsigns are worthless, superior awareness is worthless ( really, having all 5 senses amplified isn't worth shit anymore ), B-A Rank jutsus are ( relatively ) worthless.
Hiruzen's strenght was that he was proficent in everything:
you name it, he was able to do it.
Shamefully he's now useless, so Kishi's not gonna bother anymore
It's not a real evolution. It's rather an inconsistent story development. Now, Kishimoto made an honorable mention of Hiruzen's name in our minds through his clan by pushing them forward with a fire jutsu against Juubi, and that's about it.
He might consider himself lucky if he is placed above his pupils.
Regarding the bloodline;
Well, bloodline wasn't introduced to be the real deal initially, but as time passed, Mokuton and Rinnegan were revealed to be so hax that one cannot possibly hope to defeat an opponent with bloodline without any. It's not really something you can look over, but to state it once again, the entire Shinobi world is fighting two guys with Rinnegan at the moment and the five Kage were embarrassed by only one (though it may have been just due to EMS, not Rinnegan).
It's not really something new that the power levels are screwed up, though.
If the current madara, with ems,rinnegan and mokuton even admitted that only hashirama can stop him now, so it's freaking obvious that hashirama can still stop him. And if you add minato, do you think madara can win? Hashirama + minato = dead madara.
In fact, even now madara feels inferior to hashirama. As if his current power isn't enough to defeat the man who trashed him like a fodder. That's being said, madara with riinegan can't do shit to hashirama. Madara admitted that while kabuto even agreed.
No, Hashirama has 0 chanses vs curent Madara. The only one who could stomp EMS Madara and in result his ultimate Susano back in the time it was Hashirama. Curently Hashirama can't do shit considering Madara has infinite chakra. He can just chill in his Susano and repair any damage done to it constantly and stomp on anybody.
There is no way in hell Hashriama won vs normal EMS Madara by a hair but would not get stomped by curent immortal, unlimited chakra, WOOD ELEMENT (so Hashirama's main weapon is goine) and rinnegan enchanced Madara.
The man who trashed him like a fodder... Sometimes i even wonder why i even reply to you. Madara and Hashirama where showed as just about EQUALS back then. They had MANNY fights ending in draws... Then after a close long battle Hashirama won it....
Madara only said the only one who could stop him was Hashirama.He was most defenetly refering to his old self. Curent version there is no way for Hashirama to chalange it. Madara has ALL of Hashirama's tools and he is immortal and does not run out of chakra. Then he has the bloody RINNEGAN ffs... Then he has the bloody Mazo...
Minato is useless as he has nothing to get trough perfect Susano. Minato is a BUG.
Tobirama we don't know what exacly he could do but i am sure there is nothing that would chalange curent Madara.
Put them all togeder and the only one fighting is Hashirama and Madara is chilling in his Susano blasting them to bits with Susano clones, meteors and his own Susano... Minato is going to do what? RASENGAN that big Susano? Or perhaps he is going to kunai it? Minato is completly out of his league here.
All the old Kages are not going to fair any better then the curent ones... 5 Hashirama's would do better vs curent Madara but thing is Sarutobi, Minato are not as good as some of the curent Kages when dealing with Madara... Minato is good vs someone like Obito to counter the ST but vs Madara... He has nothing to do anything.
Last edited by xXan; December 28, 2012 at 07:00 AM.
Ridiculous thread. I don't understand how can someone get to such a conclusion. It's beyond me.
For God's sake, Madara has EMS, Rinnegan, Mokuton, unlimited chakra supplies, an indestructible body and a 100 years of experience as a warlike shinobi. He has shown he can easily destroy all five current Kages and nuke the entire shinobi alliance with meteors if he wanted to.
If Hiruzen and Minato were PROBABLY capable of fighting at that level, why was there a Third Shinobi War? Why was there a Second?
BOW TO OUR LORD AND MASTER
I would only say that his era was peaceful. Think about it, were Hashirama and Minato ever been stated to be the strongest Hokages ? I mean in part 1 would have been the perfect time to state which of those two was the strongest Hokage but he didn't. Regardless of how much hype these two get, not a single time did he say they were the strongest Hokages. He specifically stated him to be the strongest, so many times it's almost annoying and nearly impossible to argue against. And even made sure we don't think he was wrong by supporting the statement in the 2nd Fanbook.Quote:
As for the rest of your post, you need to understand I'm in no way, shape or form trying to compare him to anyone else or say he is stronger than Madara, Hashirama etc. I just don't find any logical reason as to why we would assume Kishi-man to be lying, trolling and such.
Last edited by KingOfNight; December 28, 2012 at 08:23 AM.
Its not like he posted lies. At that point in time it had some merit even if i belive it was just some hype like the JMan's Rasengan that can hollow mountains hyperbole. From that time to curently he changed his view as the manga evolved into Madara must be that good and Hashirama must be God so Madara is even better.
Curently in the manga it was stated that NOBODY but Hashirama can stop Madara. If Sarutobi was > Hashirama then this makes no sense. Things change, Kishi trows stuff that helps the CURENT point in the manga. If tomorow he needs Tobirama to be the best he will be just that.
Best thing to do is use the feats they showed IN the manga... And with feats Sarutobi is noting but a bug to the likes of Madara and Hashirama.
And the feat is, he defeated Hashirama...Quote:
No rage please. But hey...that's the way it is.
Last edited by KingOfNight; December 28, 2012 at 09:00 AM.
I think the OP may be a secret Hiruzen hater.
What's the best way of disgracing Ten Ten? Argue that she is stronger than Naruto, sit back and wait for the responses.
But Dan Kato, who served under Sandaime, was also aware that only Hashirama could stand up to Madara, so, Hiruzen doesn't stand a chance.
---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------
I'm sorry for Hiruzen, but I think that Madara, after Hashirama, is the strongest ninja.
He already showed what he's capable off and I think that it is enough to understand how great his power is...