The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

[RandomShikafan]

For God's sake, Madara has EMS, Rinnegan, Mokuton, unlimited chakra supplies, an indestructible body and a 100 years of experience as a warlike shinobi. He has shown he can easily destroy all five current Kages and nuke the entire shinobi alliance with meteors if he wanted to.

If Hiruzen and Minato were PROBABLY capable of fighting at that level, why was there a Third Shinobi War? Why was there a Second?

[IChallengeYou!]

YOU THERE

BOW TO OUR LORD AND MASTER

[KingOfNight]

Like Uchiha_Blood said, the power levels have clearly been retconned (more like evolved as Hiruzen's role ended EARLY in the manga). What characters like Orochimaru said back then is now irrelevant as the manga has essentially gone through what is often called "the DBZ evolution". Kishi's statement in the latest databook is worthless. He's pretty much rowing around the questions by saying that he was the strongest, when absolutely nothing indicates it. He doesn't want to admit what he said previously is now wrong, and just says "hahaha, yeah he sure must have been godly!".

This was not an interview it was a fanbook in a section specifically for facts. Like the section itself has been said to be for facts so it's not for him to just laugh something off. And I'm in no way trying to piss you off but... I don't see why i should think he was lying. It's not like someone was holding him at gun point and asked "Tell me how freaking strong Hiruzen is ?". No, he said that of his own free will, as i said it's not an interview if he truly didn't want to show he was wrong he could have just not written that. I mean... we can't just assume it was a lie, just because it doesn't seem logical. Why would a Manga-Ka just lie like that ? He was not force to write that down or anything. And it's not like someone was asking him directly.

When characters want to mention previous beasts, do they EVER mention the THIRD Hokage? No. They mention 1) Hashirama, 2) Minato, 3) Madara.

I would only say that his era was peaceful. Think about it, were Hashirama and Minato ever been stated to be the strongest Hokages ? I mean in part 1 would have been the perfect time to state which of those two was the strongest Hokage but he didn't. Regardless of how much hype these two get, not a single time did he say they were the strongest Hokages. He specifically stated him to be the strongest, so many times it's almost annoying and nearly impossible to argue against. And even made sure we don't think he was wrong by supporting the statement in the 2nd Fanbook.

As for the rest of your post, you need to understand I'm in no way, shape or form trying to compare him to anyone else or say he is stronger than Madara, Hashirama etc. I just don't find any logical reason as to why we would assume Kishi-man to be lying, trolling and such.

[xXan]

@KingOfNight

Its not like he posted lies. At that point in time it had some merit even if i belive it was just some hype like the JMan's Rasengan that can hollow mountains hyperbole. From that time to curently he changed his view as the manga evolved into Madara must be that good and Hashirama must be God so Madara is even better.

Curently in the manga it was stated that NOBODY but Hashirama can stop Madara. If Sarutobi was > Hashirama then this makes no sense. Things change, Kishi trows stuff that helps the CURENT point in the manga. If tomorow he needs Tobirama to be the best he will be just that.

Best thing to do is use the feats they showed IN the manga... And with feats Sarutobi is noting but a bug to the likes of Madara and Hashirama.

[KingOfNight]

@KingOfNight

Its not like he posted lies. At that point in time it had some merit even if i belive it was just some hype .

I would buy that, but the "that point in time" wasn't that far in time. As it was stated after the revelation of all five Kages and must have been after the Kage summit. By the time of the Kage summit, Hashirama was already hyped to death.

Best thing to do is use the feats they showed IN the manga... And with feats Sarutobi is noting but a bug to the likes of Madara and Hashirama.

And the feat is, he defeated Hashirama...

No rage please. But hey...that's the way it is.

[Ryr]

I think the OP may be a secret Hiruzen hater.

What's the best way of disgracing Ten Ten? Argue that she is stronger than Naruto, sit back and wait for the responses.

[Hakuteiken]

Curently in the manga it was stated that NOBODY but Hashirama can stop Madara. If Sarutobi was > Hashirama then this makes no sense. Things change, Kishi trows stuff that helps the CURENT point in the manga. If tomorow he needs Tobirama to be the best he will be just that.

If it was only Madara making that statement, that could possibly leave an open window for Hiruzen, since Madara would probably never be able to acknowledge a kid's future potential back in his time.
But Dan Kato, who served under Sandaime, was also aware that only Hashirama could stand up to Madara, so, Hiruzen doesn't stand a chance.

---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------

And the feat is, he defeated Hashirama...

No rage please. But hey...that's the way it is.

He defeated a senseless puppet without a will to fight, and gave up his life on the way. Is this really a feat?

[Zasz]

I'm sorry for Hiruzen, but I think that Madara, after Hashirama, is the strongest ninja.
He already showed what he's capable off and I think that it is enough to understand how great his power is...

[KingOfNight]

---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------



He defeated a senseless puppet without a will to fight, and gave up his life on the way. Is this really a feat?

Hashirama may not have been at full power, however seeing as an handicapped COMPLETELY senseless puppet almost killed two of the strongest shinobis in the world... yes this is an impressive feat.

[shafagh]

in this state , Hashiram could almost kill both Minato and Sarutobi with his poison Gas .... hid himself in his jungle and send 100 moukton clone .... travel in his forest .... beat a biju with one of his regular ninjestu ( Madara created wooden dragon so easily with only 2-3 hand seal ) .... barrage his moukton spear and have a regenerate tech ( oro's is like a joke compare to Hashirama's ... ) ....

so IMO if you make a team with Sandaime , Minato and Jiraya , still Hashirama could beat all of them .... ( after all they havn't super hax Dust release ... )

[Hakuteiken]

Hashirama may not have been at full power, however seeing as an handicapped COMPLETELY senseless puppet almost killed two of the strongest shinobis in the world... yes this is an impressive feat.

Sorry, I didn't understand your words here. Which character is handicapped, a senseless puppet and almost killed two of the strongest Shinobi in the world?

[shinsengumi]

i think kishi intended to make Sarutobi stronger than Hashirama but he failed to show and prove it to the audience
IMO ,in the first part when Sarutobi fought 1st and 2nd Hokage ,kishi had no vision of todays fights where people easily nuke entire villages ,make hundred thousand clones or fight bijuus solo etc . so that fight only looks pathetic now , almost chuunin level
but if you compare what 1st Hokage showed back then to what mokuton can do now ,you can have a general idea of what Sarutobi is capable of

[KingOfNight]

Sorry, I didn't understand your words here. Which character is handicapped, a senseless puppet and almost killed two of the strongest Shinobi in the world?

Nagato.

[M3J]

The only way Hiruzen will be considered stronger than Madara is if he's shown to be extremely powerful in the past, and nearly everyone that comes across him says he's stronger than First Hokage. Until then, majority of the power level discussion that happened in Part I is null and void, unless stated otherwise. The level that HIruzen showed against his ET sensei would get him easily killed by Madara with a simple speed blitz.

[Hakuteiken]

Nagato.

Well, a Rinnegan master's power, even under-utilized, is far greater in comparison to anything else.
Plus, Kabuto has improved Edo Tensei significantly after Orochimaru was sealed away. His control over the jutsu was vastly superior to that of Orochimaru's back at that fight. Orochimaru was yet to discover the true nature of the jutsu despite completing it, as seen when he tried to summon Minato, although it wasn't possible. If it wasn't for Shiki Fuujin, there was no chance for Hiruzen to survive, anyway.