The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

[xXan]

@KingOfNight

Can you please tell me where that was stated ?

It was not flat out stated so. It was from all the crep Madara was sprouting and from Dan claiming that only Hashirama could posibly stop him.

Then look how Hashirama's jutsus are cleaning the clock of 5 Hokage ffs.

Even Tsuck was asking Tobi if he is Madara why the hell with all the secrecy when he can take them all openly. Then Tobi used that line on how he is weak after Hashirama's fight.

Sarutobi was said that PERHAPS is the strongest of all the Kages but NEVER as strong as ALL of them and able to take them all...

And didn't Sarutobi defeat Hahsirama ? Don't give me this whole "they were brainless puppets", please. In the war a lot of them were brainless and doing just fine.

Yeah let's remove the brains of the fighter, he ends up using only a small fraction of his power, he is a puppet on strings... But yes let's call that a win for Sarutobi.
Of course you also ignored the improvement that Kabuto made to them... In the end you can ignore it as much as you whant but that Hashirama used only a fraction of the power Madara showed.

Again, can you tell me where this thing about them not being at full power came from ?

Let me gues you have comprehension problems right? Or you just can't read? Let me post it again:
Actualy they are more powerfull then they where originally. Where did you see me stating diferently? As ET zombies they have infinite chakra and immortal bodies.

What as i said is that Orochimaru was controling 2 brain dead puppets and so they where doing crep nothing.


Next time try to read please.

What are you doing dude ? What the hell do you think your doing ? It's not even funny anymore. You're seriously going against the author himself ?

You don't even know what retcons and exagerations are when the plot demands it...

Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, FACT.

Fact is that your fact comes from part 1, from Iruka who is just about a fodder and who was not even around when Hashirama was alive.. Not only that the words are "its said to" its not "he is".... Its and ASUMTION.

Do you really belive Kishi knew what he is going to do with his manga 10 years later?

God of the Shinobi in his prime.

Aha, part 1 again. Then you tell me why he can't stop Madara please? Dan lived to see it all but he clearly stated in CURENT continuty only Hashirama can stop Madara.
Not only that its a TYTLE. Nagato was said to be undefeated and a GOD ffs...

The strongest Hokage in Konoha's history - First Databook, pages 117-119

Focusing on part 1 from long ago...

The strongest of the five Kages.

Aparently you only read what you whant to read... Some read comprehension is needed.

It is SAID (asumtion) that the Hokage was the strongest of the 5 Kages.... (then the reason ROFL!!!!) Because he is the Hokage... Good reason there pal. Kabuto is sure smart with his arguments...

Then part 1?!?! DO i need to say it again?

"Rikudou was known as "Shinobi God" Sarutobi must have been godly" - 2nd Fanbook section of "interesting FACTS"

Second Databook focusing on part 1 again. Not only that is playing with words. Semantics... Amaterasu was stated to be hellfire and burnin with the heat of the sun... JMan's Rasengan blasting mountains to bits and other insane crep.

Doesn't look like "1 liners" to me.
You can say whatever you want but what the author says, goes. Like it or not. Unless of course you have a fact that says Hashirama is the strongest Hokage or that Madara is stronger than any other Hokage.

Facts are curently what is showed in the manga. Madara soloing the Kages like nothing with his ultimate Susano or with Hashirama's wood. Its one thing to claim that Sarutobi was perhaps the strongest but to claim he was stronger THEN ALL THE OTHER HOKAGES PUT TOGEDER its just nonsense... Madara is soloing ALL THE OTHER HOKAGES for God's sake. Its not even sure he is the strongest of them all but he MOST DEFENETLY is not stronger then ALL OF THEM put togeder.

But i seriously getting bored. This is like the people using that 1 page of Itachi/Kisame convo on how they togeder taking on JMan would end up dead and if they bring help it would be of no use when we know that NAGATO ALONE owned JMan... So how the bloody hell it would not help to bring him? How the hell can you belive that Jman can take on Itachi and Kisame at the same time and have a chanse in hell of winning with the feats they showed in part 2 (Kisame, Itachi and JMan)... Fact is Kishi DID NOT know where the manga would get eventualy....

You are right, this is getting ridicolus, you are closing your eyes and focusing on crep that happened some time ago when Kishi did not need the curent event that are happening in the manga. Stuff get's retconed when the story demands it...

Look at Sarutobi your God of shinobi just buying time vs the Kyuubi with A ANTIRE ARMY ON HIS BACK, the entire Konoha and w8ting for MINATO to come to save his arse. Do i need so say more?

But whatever...

[KingOfNight]

xXan

It was not flat out stated so. It was from all the crep Madara was sprouting and from Dan claiming that only Hashirama could posibly stop him.

Then look how Hashirama's jutsus are cleaning the clock of 5 Hokage ffs.

Even Tsuck was asking Tobi if he is Madara why the hell with all the secrecy when he can take them all openly. Then Tobi used that line on how he is weak after Hashirama's fight.

Sarutobi was said that PERHAPS is the strongest of all the Kages but NEVER as strong as ALL of them and able to take them all...

Opinions. Keep them to yourself.

Yeah let's remove the brains of the fighter, he ends up using only a small fraction of his power, he is a puppet on strings... But yes let's call that a win for Sarutobi.
Of course you also ignored the improvement that Kabuto made to them... In the end you can ignore it as much as you whant but that Hashirama used only a fraction of the power Madara showed.

Keep your opinion to yourself, don't remember asking for them.

Let me gues you have comprehension problems right? Or you just can't read? Let me post it again:
Actualy they are more powerfull then they where originally. Where did you see me stating diferently? As ET zombies they have infinite chakra and immortal bodies.

What as i said is that Orochimaru was controling 2 brain dead puppets and so they where doing crep nothing.

Guess again, you fail. Or perhaps you can't comprehend your own words :

That was not Hashirama's skills in fighting even in taijutsu...

You're straight up saying he is weaker than his original self. Which is an opinion so keep it to yourself like everything else.

Fact is that your fact comes from part 1, from Iruka who is just about a fodder and who was not even around when Hashirama was alive.. Not only that the words are "its said to" its not "he is".... Its and ASUMTION.

Do you really belive Kishi knew what he is going to do with his manga 10 years later?

Keep your opinion. Kishimoto himself said that he from the very start Knew how the series will end. So spare me your thoughts.

Aha, part 1 again. Then you tell me why he can't stop Madara please? Dan lived to see it all but he clearly stated in CURENT continuty only Hashirama can stop Madara.
Not only that its a TYTLE. Nagato was said to be undefeated and a GOD ffs..

Keep it please. I ask for proofs and you bring opinions to this.

It is SAID (asumtion) that the Hokage was the strongest of the 5 Kages.... (then the reason ROFL!!!!) Because he is the Hokage... Good reason there pal. Kabuto is sure smart with his arguments...

Then part 1?!?! DO i need to say it again

Yes you and your opinion are smarter than Kabuto who is basically speaking for the author.

Second Databook focusing on part 1 again. Not only that is playing with words. Semantics... Amaterasu was stated to be hellfire and burnin with the heat of the sun... JMan's Rasengan blasting mountains to bits and other insane crep.

You can say I have reading comprehension problems, but you need to learn how to read first so that your smart guy attitude don't backfire at you.

Did i ever say anything about 2nd Databook ? Can't you tell between Databook and a FANbook ? Either way, the 2nd Fanbook in case you can't tell came most likely after the Kage summit in Shippuden. And unlike the Databooks, it's straight up answering fans questions. So it's not playing with words, it's a direct statement. Which means I win.

The rest of your posts are just as useless as you other opinions. You can insult me however you want to hide your lack of proof, but, i win this argument.

[enmymiguel]

1- hokage- madara would beat him now. now he got a counter for hes wood with wood also got the rinegan.
2-- hogake- he was not special. madara would beat him,
3-hokage- hes style of fighting would not do noting to this madara. i mean onoki look stronger then the 3th. or equal.
4th-hokage- obito match up with him, i got no problem saying madara would beat him, space time, baaahh madara would find a counter, like the flower+susanoo=perfect cause not only minato, could not touch him, but the smell of flower would beat him or slow him down.
5-hokage plus j-man would not even do noting to madara cause we see what happen to tsunade and if you add j-man would not make a different.

naruto, not even in a million year he would beat madara, even with the fox help. but since hes main character, kishi make that possible, but us as fan we know thats not possible.
sasuke- i dont know about him, i need to see hes new power first, but at this level. hes noting compare to madara.
itachi + nagato would make a good match for him. but in the end. madara would come up the winner.


guys what i trying to say is....madara is the god of naruto right now, we having see someone with hes power or skill before, i mean he proof that by fighting 5 kages level who was doing combination attack and they all was skill ninja.

how can madara get beat. by reviving him as human and crew hes plan as the host of the 10 tails and make him run out of chackra and kill him. cause if he become the host of the 10 tails. he would be more powerful then he is by time 10

[Hakuteiken]

KingOfNight, this is a discussion thread. People are free to express their opinions.

Regarding your post, if Kishimoto exactly knew how the story would develop in a decade, and he screwed it up this badly, then, he should just give it up completely. Every now and then, there is a development that completely violates the continuation of the manga, toying with the power levels like a joke and so on.
For instance, for me, "Madara gave the Rinnegan to Nagato" came really out of blue, trampling on Nagato's character, messing up his side of the story and his legacy. This may not be the case for you, but I'm sure everyone here is irritated by a tentative development in story at some point, unless they think Naruto is a completely flawless manga.

So, in that regard, the direct statements from Kishimoto pretty much mean nothing when we are discussing the power levels. I have already pointed out that it's just about spotlight. Whoever is under spotlight at that moment, that character is elevated to a godly status. Like Hyuuga coming to the battlefield out of nowhere and being hailed as Konoha's best without any feat to back that up beforehand. It became clear that a Hyuuga would have an epic moment soon when that panel speculated about their awesome power. It's just a build up to Neji's death.
Likewise, if Orochimaru is battling Sandaime, Sandaime is the best Kage ever. If Madara appears, he would praise Hashirama to be at his level by his own words and Dan would back that up. Why does Dan say no one could possibly defeat Madara aside from Hashirama? Because it's a simple build up to the defeat of the Five Kage.

That's a clever trick for Kishimoto to use, actually. He just doesn't want to interfere with the power level business at all and completely leaves it to our perception and deduction.

[xXan]

@KingOfNight

Opinions. Keep them to yourself.

Then look how Hashirama's jutsus are cleaning the clock of 5 Hokage ffs.

Not oppinion, FACT. Its curently happening in the manga.

Even Tsuck was asking Tobi if he is Madara why the hell with all the secrecy when he can take them all openly. Then Tobi used that line on how he is weak after Hashirama's fight

Not oppinion, FACT. Tsuck said so himself.

Sarutobi was said that PERHAPS is the strongest of all the Kages but NEVER as strong as ALL of them and able to take them all...


Not oppinion, FACT as long as you can READ. Its not stated as fact, its stated as a rumor ...

Keep your opinion to yourself, don't remember asking for them.

So was he controling his own action? No.

FACT.

So was he using all his abilities to there best? No.

FACT.

Was he a puppet and badly used one at that by Orochimaru? Yes.

FACT

So where are my oppinions? I only see facts? Not only that this is an open debate. I am free to give my own oppinions...

Guess again, you fail. Or perhaps you can't comprehend your own words :

Its the later, trust me its the later.

You claimed i said they are not as powerfull as when they where in real life. SHOW ME where i said that, show me, quote me... And i don't mean they where not using all they had because they where brain dead. Show me where i said ET Hashirama and Tobirama would be weaked in that mode then real life.

You see there is a diference. Its one thing for that mode to not give Hashirama/Tobirama full power and another point completly for Orochimaru to not use there full potancial because HE was controling them. They had the full ability they had in real life - the brain BUT Orochimaru DID not use what could be condidered Hashirama's true power.

You're straight up saying he is weaker than his original self. Which is an opinion so keep it to yourself like everything else.

Orochimaru was controling them like puppets. It like you are on strings and someone is moving your body. Its not YOUR skill doing the punching but the one pulling your strings...

If the mind was not removed then yes that would be his skill but as long as they did not have a mind and they where ROBOTS controled by Orochimaru is not there skill.

This is not like Hashirama was not as skilled or as powerfull as in real life. This is about the fact that he was not ALLOWED to use his skill and power because he was turned into a mindless killing machine controled by Orochimaru just like Kabuto controled Nagato but only way, way worse.

Keep your opinion. Kishimoto himself said that he from the very start نnew how the series will end. So spare me your thoughts.

So he knew at the start what he would do now? Are you serious? LOL!
So you are telling me he knew where his manga is going to be 10 years (or so) later?

Keep it please. I ask for proofs and you bring opinions to this.

Same as above.

Yes you and your opinion are smarter than Kabuto who is basically speaking for the author.

And he was not sure. He stated that its so its said. He did no put it as FACT. Then add what i said above, then add the fact that the reason given is absurd.

You can say I have reading comprehension problems, but you need to learn how to read first so that your smart guy attitude don't backfire at you.

Did i ever say anything about 2nd Databook ? Can't you tell between Databook and a FANbook ? Either way, the 2nd Fanbook in case you can't tell came most likely after the Kage summit in Shippuden. And unlike the Databooks, it's straight up answering fans questions. So it's not playing with words, it's a direct statement. Which means I win.

Ah i see then its not even relevant. Its just Kishi tanlking with the fans. Yes i did miss the fanbook part.
It was released at the end of 2009. Wow really impresive. Yes i did miss the fan part but let me add some more stuff from it:

Yondaime fought Madara whilst battling against the Kyuubi.

But it was not Madara, it was OBITO. So he lies? In his on fanbook? WOW. How can it be? He lies to the fans so he can hype the manga? So he can sell it? No, this is just not possible... All the stuff there are FACTS... You see that is why i belived it was databook, i did not even conceive you would post a serouce like this. You see in this type of stuff where Kishi is doing his best to not offend fans, to not get involved with what people like and to sell his manga.

Look more lies here:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...25_129copy.jpg

THE ENTIRE PAGE. Yes i can find you more but who gives a damn. I did not even think you are bringing up fanbooks...

Also that line in the fanbook proves NOTHING. It does not stated he is this or that or more powerfull then the rest of Kages. Its just a 1 liner for God's sake, a metaphor.. I can show you in the manga ITSELF Nagato called a GOD and Konan an angel of God.

Of course you also ignored the part where i said even asuming he is the strongest Hokage there is no way he is stronger then all 5 Kages put togeder something that Madara is dismantling right now with his Susano or Wood element like nothing. Its not posible for him to be stronger then Hashirama/Madara as he sure as hell is not stronger then all the kages put togeder...
The 4'th Raikage would remove his head before he can move a finger. Even Minato with all his speed could ONLY teleport out of the way and noticed Raikage when he was 1 cm from his face...

Seriously my intention is not to insult you and i apologize if that was the result. Thing is you are refusing common sense. I mean try to have an open mind man. Kishi is a MAN he has limitations. There is no way for him to know where his manga is going to get to eventualy. Aparently he lied in 2009 or he did not even knew back then that he plans to make Tobi into Obito...

[marshall313]

Maybe all of you would shut up when kishi decides to show hiruzen's true power. But I'm pretty sure all of you would just said, that's an asspull power. Maybe one of the most powerful jutsu of hiruzen is his combination mode with enma. Enma as a super metal can transform to any shield or any get up like erza's power.

Enma can change to any metal armor to protect hiruzen from fire, water, lightning, wind and earth jutsu.

Imagine hiruzen with robocop suits. with a flying swords.

[KingOfNight]

xXan

I ignored most of what you said (not trying to offend you) because i found them of no use. But what I will reply to those :

So he knew at the start what he would do now? Are you serious? LOL!
So you are telling me he knew where his manga is going to be 10 years (or so) later?

He was asked in an interview whether he knew how the manga is going to end just like how Oda knows how OP will end. And he answered that he had the ending already planned in his mind. Of course he may change some details and things like every other human would, but i don't see him going back at this statement.
And the biggest example is, when Minato had his heroic moments and stuff he said all the great things about him, but never said he was the strongest Hokage.

Same for Hashirama (and you need to know that hashirama is my favorite Hokage), despite all the praise he is showered on now. Not a single moment was he said as the strongest Hokage.

Ah i see then its not even relevant. Its just Kishi tanlking with the fans. Yes i did miss the fanbook part.
It was released at the end of 2009. Wow really impresive. Yes i did miss the fan part but let me add some more stuff from it:

I failed to see your point from this ? How is that not relevant ?

But it was not Madara, it was OBITO. So he lies? In his on fanbook? WOW. How can it be? He lies to the fans so he can hype the manga? So he can sell it? No, this is just not possible... All the stuff there are FACTS... You see that is why i belived it was databook, i did not even conceive you would post a serouce like this. You see in this type of stuff where Kishi is doing his best to not offend fans, to not get involved with what people like and to sell his manga.

Can you please tell me how he lied ? At that point in time, Tobi WAS Madara. What did you want him to say ? He fought Obito who was disguised as Madara, and there goes the story for you ? This is not a lie, he was just confirming stuff from the Manga. And remember, all this stuff about Hiruzen is in his prime ! Like here. Have we seen his power here to argue that Kishimoto is lying ?

Are you just going to go back and forth about that statement being a lie ? Because if you're tell me and I'll stop right now.

...............................................................................................
Hakuteiken

Regarding your post, if Kishimoto exactly knew how the story would develop in a decade, and he screwed it up this badly, then, he should just give it up completely. Every now and then, there is a development that completely violates the continuation of the manga, toying with the power levels like a joke and so on.
For instance, for me, "Madara gave the Rinnegan to Nagato" came really out of blue, trampling on Nagato's character, messing up his side of the story and his legacy. This may not be the case for you, but I'm sure everyone here is irritated by a tentative development in story at some point, unless they think Naruto is a completely flawless manga.

You should know that Nagato is by far my favorite character, so I'm in no way satisfied with what he did for him. But what am I supposed to do, cry about it ? That's the way it's. I already told you that I myself see Hashirama as the strongest Hokage but would that change what K-man said ? No. The fact that he said what he said in the Fanbook even though no one was forcing him is just a Blast

[Hakuteiken]

You should know that Nagato is by far my favorite character, so I'm in no way satisfied with what he did for him. But what am I supposed to do, cry about it ? That's the way it's. I already told you that I myself see Hashirama as the strongest Hokage but would that change what K-man said ? No. The fact that he said what he said in the Fanbook even though no one was forcing him is just a Blast

What I tried to imply was he really went into unexpected paths as the story went on, and he himself degraded his characters. I wonder what was his intention in calling Hiruzen the strongest Hokage. Apparently, if he knew Hashirama was going to end up as the only Hokage relevant to the main plot, he wouldn't make such a declaration.
We don't have to agree with what Kishimoto comes up with, though. What he has developed through manga and what he said in that fanbook is contradicting.

[KingOfNight]

We don't have to agree with what Kishimoto comes up with, though. What he has developed through manga and what he said in that fanbook is contradicting.

Not necessarily, remember, he always said "prime" Hiruzen. Every where, even here he asks Iruka not to use past tense. We never saw Hiruzen in his prime so how can we judge him ? Both he and Hashirama's performance against each other were pathetic. And just like Hiruzen, all there is about Hashirama is hype. So why does it work for Hashirama but not for Hiruzen ?

EDIT: Ah yes ! When Hiruzen caught Orochimaru, he was trying to implant Hashirama's cells into other test subjects, who died one after the other. Which means Kishimoto already planned for Hashirama to be a god- like shinobi from part 1. With this, i suppose both you would admit that he knew what he was doing from the start.

[jaymizzo]

Not necessarily, remember, he always said "prime" Hiruzen. Every where, even here he asks Iruka not to use past tense. We never saw Hiruzen in his prime so how can we judge him ? Both he and Hashirama's performance against each other were pathetic. And just like Hiruzen, all there is about Hashirama is hype. So why does it work for Hashirama but not for Hiruzen ?

That is something i have always wondered. I even remember having such an argument about Rikudou sennin. Though i still dont think Hiruzen would be a match for Madara, its simply because he hasnt shown anything threatening enough to even make Madara flinch. I mean come on, do you actually believe Hiruzen has shown enough to contend with the current Dbzesque power levels?

[KingOfNight]

That is something i have always wondered. I even remember having such an argument about Rikudou sennin. Though i still dont think Hiruzen would be a match for Madara, its simply because he hasnt shown anything threatening enough to even make Madara flinch. I mean come on, do you actually believe Hiruzen has shown enough to contend with the current Dbzesque power levels?

Neither did Hashirama when they fought. They both get the same hype.

[Hakuteiken]

Not necessarily, remember, he always said "prime" Hiruzen. Every where, even here he asks Iruka not to use past tense. We never saw Hiruzen in his prime so how can we judge him ? Both he and Hashirama's performance against each other were pathetic. And just like Hiruzen, all there is about Hashirama is hype. So why does it work for Hashirama but not for Hiruzen ?

EDIT: Ah yes ! When Hiruzen caught Orochimaru, he was trying to implant Hashirama's cells into other test subjects, who died one after the other. Which means Kishimoto already planned for Hashirama to be a god-shinobi from part 1. With this, i suppose both you would admit that he knew what he was doing from the start.

It works for Hashirama because that praise comes from a Shinobi who can own the Five Kage with relative ease. It doesn't work for Hiruzen, because the hype comes from:
a) Iruka, who has never seen Hashirama and only seen Hiruzen after he was well past his prime years,
b) Kabuto, not only the same with Iruka, but also speculates about the title of Hokage being superior to other villages' Kage,
c) Orochimaru, who was lost in the sentimentality of the moment for a while, because of the impending battle and the chance to kill his Sensei. We have got to take it into account. He was a maniac, but even then he had feelings as Sandaime pointed out. Not that he was necessarily saddened by the turn of the things, but he still cared too much about him, either through respect or hatred. I mean, if you are trying to become the ultimate being, you don't become obsessed with revenge this much.

None of these people compare to Madara's current situation. Madara witnessed Hashirama's power himself and fought him. He directly measured his opponent's power. Also, they were never close to each other, so, Madara really had no ulterior reason to respect or call Hashirama strong from an emotional perspective.

Hashirama was supposed to be very strong, but we really got little hints about what Mokuton could do at that point. Plus, Hiruzen was unfazed about the first two caskets and only feared the possible arrival of Yondaime. Either Hiruzen thought he could defeat his two Sensei together or he simply stood zero chance against Yondaime's speed. In that battle in Part I, we get to learn that Yondaime was a godly-Shinobi and Shodaime and Nidaime were high-caliber Shinobi. That's how it appears to me.

[xXan]

@KingOfNight

I ignored most of what you said (not trying to offend you) because i found them of no use. But what I will reply to those :

So you are telling me manga evidence where Madara/Hashirama are direcly showed and not implied (with a perhaps) to be stronger then 5 Kages put togeder is of no use?

What you have from the manga. Iruku and a PERHAPS from him that he is the strongest of the Hokages. IRUKA ffs and it was more like a rumor or a compliment.
Then you have Kabuto who made a coment that he was said to be the strongest of the Kages.
At no point was it stated or even asumed Sarutobi>5 kages put togeder.
That is about all you have to demonstrate Sarutobi>Hashirama.

Then i have. Madara/Hashirama>5 kages put togeder. Then i have Dan stating that NOBODY but Hashirama could stop Madara, not even 1 word about Sarutobi... Then i have that Madara himself not stating 1 word about Sarutobi and we all know Madara lived enough in his cave for him to see Sarutobi alive.

In the end you don't have any evidence better then what i have. You just dismiss it as you have nothing to offer. You don't even have 1 single line in the manga where it was stated as fact that Sarutobi was better then the rest Hokage. It was all rumor.

He was asked in an interview whether he knew how the manga is going to end just like how Oda knows how OP will end. And he answered that he had the ending already planned in his mind. Of course he may change some details and things like every other human would, but i don't see him going back at this statement.
And the biggest example is, when Minato had his heroic moments and stuff he said all the great things about him, but never said he was the strongest Hokage.

Same for Hashirama (and you need to know that hashirama is my favorite Hokage), despite all the praise he is showered on now. Not a single moment was he said as the strongest Hokage.

Perhaps he has a general idea about the manga's end but no real details of what is going to appen in between. He also probably said that so he does not end up looking like bad. There is no way he did not change the ending a few times since the start of this manga. Perhaps he knew Naruto is going to bring peace and be Hokage.... Nothing more. He put up a vague term man.

Look at the interview where he was stating with a passion that Tobi=Madara... What you are giving me here is not evidence.
You also don't see him backing on his statement? Well he aparently did about Obito did he not?

Look at how the manga evolved. Do you think if he had any idea at what DBZ levels he would get to from part 1 to 2 he would change nothing in part 1?

Sarutobi was left behind because this manga is NOW about Sendu+Uchiha = SO6P.... Its about that destinify of the Senju and Uchiha. Its about every damn moron(exageration) having Hashirama DNA to get an insane boost in power. Face it Sarutobi was left in the dust as Kishi and the manga needed Hashirama OP and Madara just as OP as 2 forces that the rest can't get to (Uchiha and Senju).

I failed to see your point from this ? How is that not relevant ?

Because he mostly tells fans what they whant to hear? About the fact that he LIES as long as its a good thing for the manga? He hypes things as long as they are good for the manga?
Also he does not even states there Sarutobi is > Hashirama/Madara... I wonder if he states Sarutobi was godliky what would he call Madara? The One Above All?

Can you please tell me how he lied ? At that point in time, Tobi WAS Madara. What did you want him to say ? He fought Obito who was disguised as Madara, and there goes the story for you ? This is not a lie, he was just confirming stuff from the Manga. And remember, all this stuff about Hiruzen is in his prime ! Like here. Have we seen his power here to argue that Kishimoto is lying ?

Are you just going to go back and forth about that statement being a lie ? Because if you're tell me and I'll stop right now.

Do you know what a lie is? If you do you would know that stating X is Y when X is Z is a LIE.
He could have given a vague description and always using the word Tobi... Again if you don't belive that is a lie its easy for me to prove you rong. All i need is the definition of the word... I can post it from google if you whant. Also at that point Tobi was Madara ONLY if he decided to change it from Madara to Obito later... Thing is considering the revelation curently in the manga Tobi was at no point Madara.

he was just confirming stuff from the Manga

I like this part. So he was confirming that Tobi is Madara?!?!?!?
Look at what he did IN THE MANGA so Minato does not look like a moron. When Minato said something about Obito he said "The man with a mask" and never Madara.

Anyway that "status" he gave Sarutobi has no relevance here. He did not say he was more godlike then Hashirama or Madara... Even Nagato was called a GOD and this time in his own manga and not like some lines for his fans.

Also there is nothing to lie about his past performance when he was younger... There is no evidence that in his prime he was above Madara or Hashirama.
Also look what Orochimaru had to say about his old age. He was getting tired faster and THAT IS IT. His performance in jutsus or skill is that same exact one only that he could last LONGER in his prime. That is your link i belive.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-126-3/...apter-121.html

Are you just going to go back and forth about that statement being a lie ? Because if you're tell me and I'll stop right now

Depends on what statemant you are refering to. If you are refering to Tobi/Madara one all i need is the definition of a LIE.
If you are refering to Hashirama>other Kages its a rumor and something stated by Iruka. If you don't belive its a just a rumor all you need to do is read the words.
If you are refering to him probably ending up the strongest of the 5 Kages then that to is a rumor and not fact and even so he is not strongest then all of them put togeder like Madara/Hashirama. Same thing as above.
If you are refering to his prime self then yeah obviously in old age he had a lower chakra capacity but nothing that relevant. In no way can you belive his chakra capacity whent down more then half. Even in his prime or at any point was he stated to be as powerfull or more then all the Kages like Madara/Hashirama where DIRECLY SHOWED in the manga.

In the end i have clear evidence FROM the manga that nobody can stop Madara BUT Hashirama (so there goes Sarutobi). That Madara/Hashirama > 5 Kages put togeder. Dan did NOT put it like a rumor or hear say like Iruka or Kabuto.

What do you have? Perhaps he is the stronges Hokage and perhaps he is the stronges Kages but never that is stronger then 5 of them togeder...

Seriously you have SO much evidence to couter your argument... Its in the damn manga direcly showed for Madara and Hashirama to be on a completly diferent level. Kishi retcons stuff for his plot.

[KingOfNight]

It works for Hashirama because that praise comes from a Shinobi who can own the Five Kage with relative ease. It doesn't work for Hiruzen, because the hype comes from:
a) Iruka, who has never seen Hashirama and only seen Hiruzen after he was well past his prime years,
b) Kabuto, not only the same with Iruka, but also speculates about the title of Hokage being superior to other villages' Kage,
c) Orochimaru, who was lost in the sentimentality of the moment for a while, because of the impending battle and the chance to kill his Sensei. We have got to take it into account. He was a maniac, but even then he had feelings as Sandaime pointed out. Not that he was necessarily saddened by the turn of the things, but he still cared too much about him, either through respect or hatred. I mean, if you are trying to become the ultimate being, you don't become obsessed with revenge this much.

D- Creator of the Naruto series and the man that knows literally everything, Masashi Kishimoto.

I can't say anything anymore, if the word of the author don't convince you, what will ?

Here is the Databooks stats : Nin: 5\5 - Tai 5\5 - Gen 5\5 - Intelligence 5\5 - Str 3\5 - Speed 3\5 - Stamina 3\5 - Hand seals 5\5.

Can you guess why the stats in bold are not perfect for an old man ? Can you guess how those stats would be in his prime ?

More or less, he is the only character with 5 maxed out categories. Now can you name one character (Aside from EDO Madara) that can beat his perfection in his prime ?

[xXan]

@KingOfNight


Thing is Kishi never said the things you claimed. The manga curently claims something completly diferet, the manga curently is SHOWING something completly diferent.

You are claiming in essence that Sarutobi in his prime could defeat all the kages put togeder... In essence you are claiming Kishi would know from part 1 what he would do in part 2...

Even if he was younger his str would not increase by any significant number. Even if younger he would not be faster then Minato who was claimed to be THE FASTEST in the manga or faster then Raikage... Even in his youth he could not have more stamina then some of the people in this manga like Naruto, UZUMACHI with insane life force and long life, or Old Raikage that was alive in his age or curent Raikage or Hashirama that aparently is that OP when it comes to his DNA and so on...

You see crep change from part 1... You just refuse to belive it. Also if he has 5/5 in ninjutsu what does 1 that can trap the Kyuubi in a small moon have? Just curious... But yes let's get back to the incredible jutsus he used in part 1 to prove his 5/5 in ninjutsu... Databook is irrelevant.

Also why is this OP dude w8tes for Minato to save his arse and just buys time? Eh?