The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

[KingOfNight]

@KingOfNight


The words are HE WAS SAID TO BE and not HE WAS. Can you read? Do you know what words mean?

He was said to be by whom ? By a lot of people. Thus, he was acknowledged as the strongest Hokage by the shinobi world. Can you not comprehend that ? Or are you saying none existing people said that ? Stop with your useless tries. One time you say Kishimoto is lying, next time you say he's playing with words. And now you're say something that has no point at all. He was said to be the strongest Hokage. Thus a lot of people gave direct statement of him being the strongest Hokage

It's like in OP when Oda said that WB's devil fruit was said to be the strongest of the paramecia class, thus he is clearly saying it's the strongest. But you're too desperate to pick up a simple hint.

If he is the only one who can stop him YES. Sarutobi CAN'T so Hashirama is stronger. Again words comprehension. Then he was FLAT OUT SHOWED to be.

Winning and being stronger than someone is different in case you can't tell. Who's to say Dan didn't mean that Madara has something only Hashirama can counter ? That's why i asked for a direct proof that he is stronger. And you bring me the the case with Madara and Hashirama. But still doesn't equal a direct statement that he is the strongest Hokage.

[xXan]

@KingOfNight

He was said to be by whom ? By a lot of people. Thus, he was acknowledged as the strongest Hokage by the shinobi world. Can you not comprehend that ? Or are you saying none existing people said that ? Stop with your useless tries. One time you say Kishimoto is lying, next time you say he's playing with words. And now you're say something that has no point at all. He was said to be the strongest Hokage. Thus a lot of people gave direct statement of him being the strongest Hokage

He was asumed to be. Do you know what an ASUMTION is? He was asumed by people who DID NOT know Madara's or Hashirama's true power, that is FACT from curent chapters. Not even TSUNADE knew of Hashirama's power for God's sake.
You seriously need a dictionary to look up words. Asumtions are not FACTS. Rumors and hearsay are NOT facts. Kishi did NOT state anything of what you claim.

Winning and being stronger than someone is different in case you can't tell. Who's to say Dan didn't mean that Madara has something only Hashirama can counter ? That's why i asked for a direct proof that he is stronger. And you bring me the the case with Madara and Hashirama. But still doesn't equal a direct statement that he is the strongest Hokage.

Direct proof? I can show you wood element owning 5 Kages. What is that if not evidence lol. You got evidence that Sarutobi can solo 5 Kages? Please provide it. All the feats, statemants from the manga show Hashirama as the most powerfull Hokage. Even Minato has better showings then Sarutobi. Sarutobi with an ARMY behind him could only hope for Minato to get there to save his arse.

So i have Hashirama's power to be above 5 Kages put togeder. What do you have from Sarutobi that would put him on that level of power?

Also Madara would just step on Sarutobi like a the bug he is.

[NinjaStar]

@NinjaStar


His fights involved him having comrades on the battlefield. He would MOST DEFENETLY defened them and himself. At best you can claim he would not land the killing blow if possible but no moron would not go all out because he likes peace. Those where life and death situation where he was puting his life, the life of his comrades and the future of his clan on the line. There is no way he was going easy on Madara because he likes peace.

Oviously if he could complete his mission by avoiding fighting Madara he would take it BUT if the engage happened he would fight to his best. In the end Hashirama was a shinobi.

You can't be serious can you? After seeing the exchange between Minato, A, and Bee you really think that its unlikely for Hashirama(Love NOT war brother) to not want to go all out every battle? I guess Minato didn't care about the outcome of the war he was in huh? What about Itachi whom was a pacifist? He didn't enjoy fighting and when he did he tried to get it over with as fast as possible and seemingly with the least bloodshed. Again you think its too much that some of the times that Madara and Senju encountered one another that Hashirama wasn't just "fuck it, we'll get 'em next time"?

Like you said hashirama was protecting his people during most battles and you can't fight all out when you have to babysit somebody. The one time we know that they did go all out with one another was at VOTE and that was essentially one on one(presumably) and Hashirama had an entire Village and future of the ninja war to protect aka no more mr.nice guy.

[KingOfNight]

@KingOfNight



He was asumed to be. Do you know what an ASUMTION is? He was asumed by people who DID NOT know Madara's or Hashirama's true power, that is FACT from curent chapters. Not even TSUNADE knew of Hashirama's power for God's sake.
You seriously need a dictionary to look up words. Asumtions are not FACTS. Rumors and hearsay are NOT facts. Kishi did NOT state anything of what you claim.

You're just assuming this. He was said, is different form he was thought or assumed to be. Which is why everyone in the world never argued about that. I don't need a dictionary, i need to get over the fact that someone in this world is actually desperate enough to bring out such a useless argument. And was Kishimoto's statement in the Fanbook a mere assumption as well ? No wait, it was a "praise". Was Orochimaru calling him the Shinobi god in his prime an assumption ? Get over yourself.

Direct proof? I can show you wood element owning 5 Kages. What is that if not evidence lol.

No. It's a feat. Have you seen Sarutobi in his prime ?

[marshall313]

Kakuzu said that Hashirama was the last Shinobi that was able to take more than one of his hearts down. That doesn't translate into a win for him. Perhaps he did flee from the battlefield afterwards. At any rate, we can't really tell the end result.



I think Mito could have possibly only aided him when it came to sealing the Kyuubi. I don't think she could do anything against the Perfect Susano'o on her own.
The most likely scenario is Hashirama taking control of the Kyuubi, and Mito performing the fuuinjutsu.
Madara probably got exhausted overexerting his doujutsu while trying to counter Hashirama's attacks and lost. That's how it seems to me, at least.

Oh Noh. Remember the flashback of kurama? We've seen hashirama in a bloody face while saying, ''kyubi, you're so dangerous blah blah''. So with those scene, hashirama already beat the hell up to madara and already gained the kyubi to his control.

Honestly, the manga already shown us the proof that hashirama is more stronger than madara. So making up things just like stated by someone (it's not you, really) that the reason why hashirama won against madara is because of mito.

Hashirama won against madara because he's more better and stronger than madara.

[xXan]

You can't be serious can you? After seeing the exchange between Minato, A, and Bee you really think that its unlikely for Hashirama(Love NOT war brother) to not want to go all out every battle? I guess Minato didn't care about the outcome of the war he was in huh? What about Itachi whom was a pacifist? He didn't enjoy fighting and when he did he tried to get it over with as fast as possible and seemingly with the least bloodshed. Again you think its too much that some of the times that Madara and Senju encountered one another that Hashirama wasn't just "fuck it, we'll get 'em next time"?

Like you said hashirama was protecting his people during most battles and you can't fight all out when you have to babysit somebody. The one time we know that they did go all out with one another was at VOTE and that was essentially one on one(presumably) and Hashirama had an entire Village and future of the ninja war to protect aka no more mr.nice guy.

Minato whent for the kill on Raikage. He did not kill Bee as the retreat order was given. Raikage would be dead if that Kunai could penetrate his armour and Bee did not intervene. Minato was not going easy on him at all.
Itachi what? He was a pacifist so? What does that had to do with life and death situations? He 1shoot Orochimaru and he did not even had a second though. The fact that people wanted peace and are pacifists does not mean they would not do there duty as ninja and leaders of the clan. They had missions to complete.

Hashirama did not had the posibility of going "wasn't just "fuck it, we'll get 'em next time" considering he had missions to complete. The 2 sides where fighting and losing a LOT OF MEN. That is why even the Uchiha decided for the truce and team up. Yes if Uchiha pulled back he probably when with the "screw it" but thing is that would be only after it was all over (the mission or whatever). They eneded up losing a lot of men. Hashirama would not go easy considering he was losing men.
Just because he needed to protect his men does not mean he was not attacking Madara with all he had. They where probably attacking 1 another and the rest of the fodders with them attacked 1 another.

You're just assuming this. He was said, is different form he was thought or assumed to be. Which is why everyone in the world never argued about that. I don't need a dictionary, i need to get over the fact that someone in this world is actually desperate enough to bring out such a useless argument. And was Kishimoto's statement in the Fanbook a mere assumption as well ? No wait, it was a "praise". Was Orochimaru calling him the Shinobi god in his prime an assumption ? Get over yourself. And this is the last time I'm about to stay silent while someone like you to keep questioning my intelligence. You're way over yourself saying I have reading or comprehending problems. You've insulted me enough I suppose.



No. It's a feat. Have you seen Sarutobi in his prime ?

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic26454.html
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/It+is+said

It is a rumor(as i keep telling your for 10 pages), what people generaly belive. ITS not a fact. Yes you do need a dictionary...

[darkprince0521]

Direct proof? I can show you wood element owning 5 Kages. What is that if not evidence lol. You got evidence that Sarutobi can solo 5 Kages? Please provide it. All the feats, statemants from the manga show Hashirama as the most powerfull Hokage. Even Minato has better showings then Sarutobi. Sarutobi with an ARMY behind him could only hope for Minato to get there to save his arse.

not knowing all the details about the debate; but i would like if you can show where wood clones were owning 5 kages. i am assuming that you are stating Hashirama's power, and only Hashirama's power. if you show the usage of Wood Clones against 5 kages by Madara; then that won't count. because it wasn't the power of Wood Clones alone. there were several other factors, such as immortal body, EMS, Rinnegan etc.

[KingOfNight]

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic26454.html
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/It+is+said

It is a rumor(as i keep telling your for 10 pages), what people generaly belive. ITS not a fact. Yes you do need a dictionary...

And your point is ?

''is considered''

So what now ?

[xXan]

And your point is ?


So what now ?

....

1. To think carefully about.
2. To think or deem to be; regard as. See Usage Note at as1.
3. To form an opinion about; judge: considers waste to be criminal.
4. To take into account; bear in mind: Her success is not surprising if you consider her excellent training.
5. To show consideration for: failed to consider the feelings of others.
6. To esteem; regard.
7. To look at thoughtfully.

Its Irukas and those people oppinions about Sarutobi's and Hashirama's power. Its not fact(look at nr.3 is the most obvious). And the word that applies to the context of said sentence is RUMOR. Its hearsay...

[KingOfNight]

....

1. To think carefully about.
2. To think or deem to be; regard as. See Usage Note at as1.
3. To form an opinion about; judge: considers waste to be criminal.
4. To take into account; bear in mind: Her success is not surprising if you consider her excellent training.
5. To show consideration for: failed to consider the feelings of others.
6. To esteem; regard.
7. To look at thoughtfully.

Its Irukas and those people oppinions about Sarutobi's and Hashirama's power. Its not fact(look at nr.3 is the most obvious). And the word that applies to the context of said sentence is RUMOR. Its hearsay...

Maybe you should stop wasting my time.

For the last time, Iruka didn't say everything. Kishimoto said this as well in the databook, so who rumored this ? His assistant ?. Not to mention than fanbook statement, as well as Orochimaru's.

[xXan]

not knowing all the details about the debate; but i would like if you can show where wood clones were owning 5 kages. i am assuming that you are stating Hashirama's power, and only Hashirama's power. if you show the usage of Wood Clones against 5 kages by Madara; then that won't count. because it wasn't the power of Wood Clones alone. there were several other factors, such as immortal body, EMS, Rinnegan etc.

Wood clones? I said wood element. It was a point that 1 shoot of polen was able to take down ALL the kages there. Only trough plot no jutsu Tsuck got back up. Then this:
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/601/5

He did not use Susano again and look at Tsunade crushed with wood element. Then it was that 1 wave of wood element that needed an army of Naruto's to stop with Kurama huge infused Rasengans. Then we have Susano owning the Kages, something that only Hashirama can stop. Even Tsunade could not belive Hashirama could fight somethin like that. Its clear that Hashirama was above them. Madara was trowing that crep at them the entire fight. Then we have this:
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/467/8

Tsuck the man that had to fight Madara with NO ULTIMATE SUSANO states Madara can just achive anything he wants and there is no need for this crep tactics... Hashiram awas above MADARA WITH Susano and KURAMA so what do you think? Its a corelation of multiple factors.

[samsiufan]

I don't personally think the 3rd hokage is stronger (if strong is the right word to use actually) than Madara, i don't even think he is stronger than the 4th (over a 1000 jutsus or not). I think in terms of hokage (based on no fact but what I have perceived so far in the Manga or my humble opinion) and Madara - I would put Hashirama, (Madara here), Minato, (or Madara here), Sarutobi, Tobirama, Tsunade

How do you define "stronger" in the context of Naruto and the context of a fight? Strength does not always win the fight...It is a mixture of intelligence, skill (or tools in the bag), strength, experience, desire, strategy, preparedness, training, speed etc....

[xXan]

Maybe you should stop wasting my time.

For the last time, Iruka didn't say everything. Kishimoto said this as well in the databook, so who rumored this ? His assistant ?. Not to mention than fanbook statement, as well as Orochimaru's.

To think about something is not fact. Its how you view of said action/object/whatever based on your own view of it.
To deem to be - To have as an opinion; judge. Take Sasuke for him it was fact that Itachi was bad but it was his own ilusion of reality.
To show consideration for already posted the list...
To esteem - the regard in which one is held; especially: high regard <the esteem we all feel Its no diferent then Konan beliving that Nagato can't lose. Its one regard for a man.
regard - same thing as considered/esteem.

There is nothign that would give you credit as fact.

Also databook are full of crep as provided even by mods in this topic.

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------

I don't personally think the 3rd hokage is stronger (if strong is the right word to use actually) than Madara, i don't even think he is stronger than the 4th (over a 1000 jutsus or not). I think in terms of hokage (based on no fact but what I have perceived so far in the Manga or my humble opinion) and Madara - I would put Hashirama, (Madara here), Minato, (or Madara here), Sarutobi, Tobirama, Tsunade

How do you define "stronger" in the context of Naruto and the context of a fight? Strength does not always win the fight...It is a mixture of intelligence, skill (or tools in the bag), strength, experience, desire, strategy, preparedness, training, speed etc....

Thing is intelect can only go as far. All the brains in the world is not going to save Sarutobi when Madara is going to stomp him with his big Susanoo boot.

[KingOfNight]

To think about something is not fact. Its how you view said action/object/whatever based on your own view of it.
To deem to be - To have as an opinion; judge
To show consideration for already posted the list...
To esteem - the regard in which one is held; especially: high regard <the esteem we all feel Its no diferent then Konan beliving that Nagato can't lose. Its one regard for a man.
regard - same thing as considered.

There is nothign that would give you credit as fact.

Also databook are full of crep as provided even by mods in this topic.

To be deemed is to be seen by many as the strongest Hokage.

To be regarded by many as the strongest Hokage.

To be considered the strongest Hokage

Everything about him being the strongest Hokage. Yes it's a fact when coming from the Author himself so spare me your tries to negate it and bring me an actual proof that I have been asking for, for the last 11 pages.

Also databook are full of crep as provided even by mods in this topic.

That's your opinion on the Databook.

[xXan]

@KingOfNight


Yes many BELIVED he was because they did not know Hashirama's true power. That is NOT fact. That is wat people BELIVED as true, ASUMED as true but they where missing vital facts. I am done. Also oppinion on databooks? Its clear indication when they contradict the bloody manga.

God belive what you whant. I am really done. You are 1 of those people that belive they are right and the entire world is wrong. No point to even try.