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Thread: Madara thread

  1. #646
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Meh I think that's just a mess up by kishi, madara said whoever sees this sussano dies, but he fault hashirama many times but he never killed him, but then that's saying he never used perfect sussano against him. But then that doesn't make sense because he said the damage won't be as great since hashirama is not there. So I'm just going to go with hashirama is the only one that wasn't killed by it, also the 5 kage.


  2. #647
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    Meh I think that's just a mess up by kishi, madara said whoever sees this sussano dies, but he fault hashirama many times but he never killed him, but then that's saying he never used perfect sussano against him. But then that doesn't make sense because he said the damage won't be as great since hashirama is not there. So I'm just going to go with hashirama is the only one that wasn't killed by it, also the 5 kage.
    While they did create a fall there....

  3. #648
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by n0air9x9 View Post
    Because he chose to use Kyuubi. Kyuubi = Susanoo so ... yes, that's his full power. I can not claim that he didn't use it. That's the problem. I'm still confused about the fact he was able to use both Kyuubi and susanoo, because it would be against his own words "anyone saw this kind of Susanoo died
    But, even then, he lost his control over the Kyuubi at some point during the fight. What would keep him from going Susano'o at that point?
    Besides, I'm not yet convinced he cannot use the Kyuubi and the Susano'o simultaneously. As draining as this could be, if only with Kyuubi he pushed Hashirama this much, he would win the battle if used them both even for a shorter time span.

  4. #649
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    But, even then, he lost his control over the Kyuubi at some point during the fight. What would keep him from going Susano'o at that point?
    Besides, I'm not yet convinced he cannot use the Kyuubi and the Susano'o simultaneously. As draining as this could be, if only with Kyuubi he pushed Hashirama this much, he would win the battle if used them both even for a shorter time span.
    His limit i proposed ??? I have no idea.... The only thing makes me dont belive madara used that susanoo is his own words.....

    Well, Kyuubi is a hell strong beast. So if the first is miserable, that makes sense?. Since it;s taller than a moutain him self and his chakra is magnificient

  5. #650
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by n0air9x9 View Post
    His limit i proposed ??? I have no idea.... The only thing makes me dont belive madara used that susanoo is his own words.....

    Well, Kyuubi is a hell strong beast. So if the first is miserable, that makes sense?. Since it;s taller than a moutain him self and his chakra is magnificient
    I know. It's just that I'm considering the other aspects of your arguments, as well.

    Not sure if I got your point here, but you play as much as trump cards as you have if you are up against your lifetime rival. I can't come up with an explanation to Madara's own words, though.

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  7. #651
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    I don't think that was meant as a afirmation, more like trying to lift the mood considering where they where. It was like braging. I can't posibly belive that at that age he was better then Tobirama who was Hokage.

    Then here Danzo claims he was the greatest in the village:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c481/8.html
    Why not? At that age, Minato could have killed Tobirama and Hiruzen thanks to Hiraishin. Or Itachi could have beaten both thanks to Susano'o and superior genjutsu skills. Maybe Hiruzen was better than Tobirama because of his versatility and intelligence.

    I know, but it doesn't mean Danzou's right. It's his opinion, just as HIruzen claiming he's the best out of the group is his opinion. Hell, HIruzen could have been the second best in the group but still more likely to survive. This isn't DBZ, where just because Tobirama > Hiruzen, Hiruzen would lose to the people chasing the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    Have you ever heard id if boosting morakd and keeping positive to keep people from feeling to bad about a situation? thats basically what hiruzen was doing. But you can't refute what danzou said regardless of his feelings. Any who still this shows how in hiruzens prime that he was no contender to madara
    You can't refute what HIruzen said either. Both are opinions. We still dont' know just what Hiruzen was capable of, maybe he was capable of beating Madara in his prime. I mean, we haven't see him fight in Part II. Hiruzen vs. Kyuubi was in his older age, and even Minato couldn't do anything but use Hiraishin on Kyuubi.

    The only ones to ever subdue Kyuubi were Hashirama and Madara. Mito just sealed it inside her while Kushina used her chains. Even Naruto needed Bee and Kushina to help him steal Kyuubi's chakra.

    While people may say he was helpless against the bijuu bomb and needed Minato to save Konoha's ass, let's not forget Minato had the tool to deal with that - Hiraishin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Still, it's not possible. Hiruzen didn't seem to be arrogant type, so, I think he wouldn't dare to say "I'm stronger than the Hokage" in his presence. If he was already superior to Tobirama at that point, as strong as their rivalry was, Danzo wouldn't be that much shocked to hear him being appointed as the Third.
    It wouldn't necessarily be arrogance, but true statement in his view said to make his teammates not worry as much, and allow them to let him go be the decoy.

    Why not? Danzou could have thought it was too early, Hiruzen was too young, there could have been better candidates, etc. There could be plenty of reasons why he was shocked.


    I'm just saying, Hiruzen's opinion of himself could mean a lot here because he isn't arrogant, and no one bothered to correct him or banter back.

  8. #652
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Why not? At that age, Minato could have killed Tobirama and Hiruzen thanks to Hiraishin. Or Itachi could have beaten both thanks to Susano'o and superior genjutsu skills. Maybe Hiruzen was better than Tobirama because of his versatility and intelligence.

    I know, but it doesn't mean Danzou's right. It's his opinion, just as HIruzen claiming he's the best out of the group is his opinion. Hell, HIruzen could have been the second best in the group but still more likely to survive. This isn't DBZ, where just because Tobirama > Hiruzen, Hiruzen would lose to the people chasing the group.
    How? Tobirama was a space/time ninjutsu user, so, I'd assume he was the most likely to survive, not just based on the strength. Besides, Hiruzen was an Earth style user, which is weak against Lightning. Though, in a way, neither Tobirama's Water style, nor Hiruzen's Fire style were a match to Lightning as a great counter. I can't see why he could possibly have more chance to survive.

  9. #653
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    With the exception of Jiraya, the sannin have all showed signs of age. First off, Tsunade. Without her transformation jutsu (a extremely improved one) she actually looks pretty old. Orochimaru constantly changes his body. So yeah.
    But those signs hadn't affected their ability to fight. Tsunade literally has to run out of chakra in order to be affected by her age. And Orochimaru has to specifically choose a host to even make use of his strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    And could you tell me what that level is ? Aside from Izanagi (and a pretty useless version of the Mokuton), he hardly showed anything at all. His Ninjutsu looked far inferior to Hiruzen and even he stated that Hiruzen's ability to utilize any jutsu was unsurpassed (though it's an anime statement if i remember). He only used wind Jutsus which pales to Hiruzen's skill.
    Danzo roughly kept up with Sasuke, who speed is well noted, and displayed wind techniques enough to match him and even damage his skeletal Susanoo. That's superior to any of the ninjutsu that Sarutobi displayed.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Why not? At that age, Minato could have killed Tobirama and Hiruzen thanks to Hiraishin. Or Itachi could have beaten both thanks to Susano'o and superior genjutsu skills. Maybe Hiruzen was better than Tobirama because of his versatility and intelligence.
    Therein lies the issue, that the majority of powerful ninjas are that way due to unique abilities. Aside from Konan, not aware of any S rank ninjas who relies on just regular techniques. They either rely on a hax skill or a bloodline limit, sometimes both.

  10. #654
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    As easily as The 1st power was retconned so can Hiruzen's and it's not all that hard to imagine.

    Giving him Fire jutsu similar to Madara and Earth jutsu similar to Onoki and his son are not out of the question. Add in high level seals and mass use of Kage Bushin and he could still be a force comparable to Hashirama, who uses WOOD jutsu. As powerful as Moukton has shown to be, it is still wood, remember that.

    IMO, the recton won't probably ever happen, but you given what we know about him if it did happen I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was the strongest Hokage we had ever seen.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  11. #655
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Therein lies the issue, that the majority of powerful ninjas are that way due to unique abilities. Aside from Konan, not aware of any S rank ninjas who relies on just regular techniques. They either rely on a hax skill or a bloodline limit, sometimes both.
    Agreed. The answer to your question may be Kisame. He doesn't have a bloodline limit, as far as I could remember, nor he showed something that could be considered hax.

  12. #656
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Kisame did have Samehade, which granted him chakra, healed him, and gave his a transformation. That and a Bijuu's level of chakra. Actually, Gai would also also count as someone powerful with just regular techniques.

  13. #657
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Agreed. The answer to your question may be Kisame. He doesn't have a bloodline limit, as far as I could remember, nor he showed something that could be considered hax.
    Samehada was pretty hax hence why it had to betray it's master in order for Killerbee to continue his irrelevant existence.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  14. #658
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    As easily as The 1st power was retconned so can Hiruzen's and it's not all that hard to imagine.

    Giving him Fire jutsu similar to Madara and Earth jutsu similar to Onoki and his son are not out of the question. Add in high level seals and mass use of Kage Bushin and he could still be a force comparable to Hashirama, who uses WOOD jutsu. As powerful as Moukton has shown to be, it is still wood, remember that.

    IMO, the recton won't probably ever happen, but you given what we know about him if it did happen I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was the strongest Hokage we had ever seen.
    Honestly, I don't think that matters all that much. Hyōton Is ice but it was resistant to Sasuke's fire attacks. As a matter of fact, it took explosives no problem. also, if you consider the fact that primarily madara is a fire Jutsu user, then the whole "it's still wood" claim holds a lot less weight.
    Last edited by KiSwordsman; January 05, 2013 at 05:26 PM.

  15. #659
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Honestly, I don't think that matters all that much. Hyōton Is ice but it was resistant to Sasuke's fire attacks. also, if you consider the fact that primarily madara is a fire Jutsu user, then the whole "it's still wood" claim holds a lot less wait.
    Thus far it hasn't been shown to be anymore powerful in an offensive or defensive way than any other jutsu. There are loads more jutsu that are greater for offense, and defense. IMO, Hashirama's greatest abilities are his Moukton Clones, instant healing, and the Dragon he used to fight the Kyuubi. Other than that, it is simple the sheer size of his jutsu that makes him seem so powerful.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  16. #660
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    How? Tobirama was a space/time ninjutsu user, so, I'd assume he was the most likely to survive, not just based on the strength. Besides, Hiruzen was an Earth style user, which is weak against Lightning. Though, in a way, neither Tobirama's Water style, nor Hiruzen's Fire style were a match to Lightning as a great counter. I can't see why he could possibly have more chance to survive.
    Was he as fast as Minato, though? Minato could deal damage to Tobirama before he even realized it because of his reflexes, speed, and Hiraishin.

    Who has lightning? Minato's element is unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Therein lies the issue, that the majority of powerful ninjas are that way due to unique abilities. Aside from Konan, not aware of any S rank ninjas who relies on just regular techniques. They either rely on a hax skill or a bloodline limit, sometimes both.
    And you might have some like Hiruzen who rely on his own pure skills and versatility, as well as intelligence, unlike most other shinobi.

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