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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
It's pretty unfair to try and compare Old Sarutobi to the Edo Tensei Madara we've seen in this war...
That said, it would be pretty hard for Sarutobi to fight Perfect Susanoo.
However... I'm sure that Sarutobi, in his prime, could figure something out to hold on for a while. He knew all the justu in Konoha, and thus could come up with a way to counter each. For example, he used a summon to counter Mokuton. He used his keen senses to counter the darkness genjutsu. He used Minato's sealing jutsu to counter the Edo Tensei.
He would likely still lose, but I don't think he's as weak as some are making him out to be.
We don't know how the fight went, though. Maybe Muu and Onoki didn't go all out because they feared losing alliance with Konoha or Hashirama.Quote:
True, but we've only seen old Sarutobi, who despite not being in the shape he was in his prime, was able to take on two former hokage (despite their bein at half power) and Orochimaru. While nothing has supported Hiruzen's hype, nothing hindered it either, other than Hashirama bein constantly praised and he and Madara showin quite a hell lot of power.
I see it as the equivalent of Jiraiya or someone saying "Minato was the great ninja produced by Konoha." Nothing so far has contradicted that because the first two kage were born before Konoha was established, Hiruzen may have been born before Konoha as well, and Minato might be better than the Sannin.
He has EMS so I expect him to be able to see moves and plan accordingly because not only is he beyond his prime but because he's very experienced as a fighter. Even Naruto was faster than the Raikage if you want compare his speed. Minato is in the same realm and so is the 2nd hokages likely(both due to space/time Justus).
So lastly, if you don't mind because I'm skeptical, could you list or perhaps show some feats that weren't effected by the Mokuton or Rinnegan? I doubt it because we don't know what is and isn't really. After thiese upcoming flashbacks we can probably get a better idea on his living feats to compare to. Even the OP said new Madara is probably overkill now compared to Sarutobi.
Shouldn't this thread be closed given the latest fact about Hizuren's glaring inferiority before Hashirama?
Speed is speed physically or Justu it's still speed one is a utility and the other an ability. Now for the comparison based on your comment. Forewarning from Naruto is similar to eyes that can see quick movements. Naruto was able to react thanks to the body of the sage. Isn't it possible Madara was able to counter because of the Hashrima cells (body of the sage reincarnate) that boosted his physical body as well? Blocking too?
I believe the fire, blocking the rasengans, and the Susanoo are legit. However him forming multiple clones with the ability to all summon their Susanoos is obviously an enhancement. The issue is where does HIS power end and the Rinnegan/Mokuton powers begin? You really can't say you know for sure.
This would explain a lot about the current conjecture of the series.
It always felt strange how Madara never used Amaterasu despite facing the 5 kages but more importantly Hashirama despite the latter using techniques based of on inflamable wood.
Even if Hashirama had a lethal counter to the technique that would not explain why Madara didn't use it against the 5 kages who certainly had no way of stopping it.
In my opinion, since it was revealed the MS reflects the specific despair of the user rather than a predefined set of abilities, Madara doesn't have Amaterasu and hence why he never prevailed over Hashirama Senju.
We assumed Madara was the first to use Amaterasu because we tought other had information about it due to Madara's historical records in Konoha but since Itachi was a spy he could very well have been the first to awake Amaterasu and gave information how to counter it.
If Amaterasu and Enton are the definitive counter to Mokuton I wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to have Sasuke win a possible fight with Hashirama or Madara because of that.
As for Obito not having Tsukuyomi it would explain why he didn't become the Juubi's jinchuriki right of the bat.
His sharingan grants him Kamui and maybe Susanoo (we can't be sure until his eyes are reunited) but if he needs someone else to cast Tsukuyomi on humanity this would explain his dependancy on Madara and his interest in Sasuke.
If he could just go and use the Genjutsu by himself he would never have bothered to keep Naruto alive when he had so many chances to capture him but if he needed Naruto to motivate Sasuke into becoming the Juubi's jinchuriki then his plan makes a whole lot more sense.
Sasuke was perfect because he could cast Tsukuyomi in Madara's place while being manipulable whereas Madara would certainly throw Obito under the bus.
Even tough Obito took Madara's right eye, we don't know if a transplanted Rinnegan can morph back to EMS and much less if Madara's right eye was the one he used to cast Tsukuyomi in his life.
In this sense, unless Obito knew how to change between the Rinnegan and the EMS and that Madara's Tsukuyomi came explicitly out of his right eye, Obito would be forced to either bargain with Madara or manipulate Sasuke (much easier) instead of casting the Mugen Tsukuyomi by himself.
i thought one of sasukes eyes was used to summon ametarasu while the other one was to manipulate it and since itachi had ameterasu and tsukiyomi , his ametarasu wasnt as good as sasukes
I'm wondering if each set of brothers has the same set of individual eye powers, but each brother is better with one than the other according to their natural abilities. But, any Uchiha who unlocks eye powers in each eye has access to Sussano.
Well yeah. It was clear they don't have the same tech (aside for Susano) from the point it was revealed that Kakashi has Obito's eye and they have Kamui.
Take note that Sasuke shoots Amaterasu with 1 eye and manipulates it with the other. Sasuke does not have Tsukiyomi as that other eye is used to manipulate Amaterasu.
Obito (asuming he has both eyes):
Defensive Kamui that can be cast on himself or when tauching people.
Offensive Kamui that can be cast at range.
He should have 2 powers most defenetly. You need 2 powers to awaken the 3'th one, Susano. Sasuke stated it back when he was facing Raikage/Gaara.
Now why is he not using it? Probably because it would be a headache for Kishi to come up with 2 more and be better then that of Itachi/Sasuke and Obito... Madara needs to be above them.
Last edited by xXan; March 11, 2013 at 03:00 AM.
Didn't sasuke use tsukiyomi against bee?