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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
First of all, Kabuto said this:
Which means, he claims that himself was still outmatched by Tsunade, despite the fact that all these years, she spent on drinking and gambling and do nothing but wasting her time on meaningless entertainment. Kabuto is young, and he is trained by orochimaru for quite a time. The fact he may damange Tsunade at some point is easy to see, especially with her kind of temper. that doesn't mean kabuto can win the fight. and yes, she underestimate Kabuto. and if she used byakugo, kabuto would be dead.
jiraiya all these years go looking for Orochimaru, and the Akatsuki. Drinking a ton or anything, he still used his skill in battle. unlike Tsunade.
It was even done before in real life:
"In 1998, researchers at Stanford University's Linear Accelerator Center successfully converted energy into matter. This feat was accomplished by using lasers and incredibly strong electromagnetic fields to change ordinary light into matter."
Let's not forget the farmous "e=mc2".
So she was mad? That does not make her not racional. In the end she was not really even mad at them. Orochimaru was there to propose to bring back those 2 but she decided to stop them to protect that "dream" those 2 shared.Quote:
First off look here:Quote:
He spared her, he did not go for the KILL. He stoped beliving she was down and then GOT HIT. He underestimated her. Thing is Kabuto in part 1 was Kakashi level (actualy probably below a bit) as stated by JMan. Kakashi was shiting his pants at the site of Orochimaru. Tsunade is not a real fighter, she is more support. She can fight on the front lines because of her healing but that is it. If someone had techs that go around her healing she is horible...
Thing about it the only time Tsunade landed a hit on Kabuto was when Kabuto stopped fighting...
We had a topic in the battle forums with Naruto+ Sasuke(part 1 only) vs Tsunade and many where giving them the win over Tsunade.
Actualy goinsidering he had no real chalange most of his days where spend on drinking, getting information (not fighting) and chasing women... Oh and books. We all know he was famous there. Considering even Itachi and Kisame avoided JMan we can imagine nobody would be as dumb to attack him and even if they did they where so below JMan that he would just about 1 shoot them.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; January 04, 2013 at 02:10 AM.
What I meant was Tsunade is the grand daughter of Hashirama and therefore, is a senju.....Her dna should be good enough..
I'm sure her body would be good enough to mutate a pair of EMS into Rinnegan, but what does that have to do with Mokuton?
Not even Tobirama, Hashiramas younger brother, had Mokuton. Hashirama was a unique freak of nature, and children do not always inherit the abnormalities of their parents, because the responsible genes can stay dormant for their entire life... so I don't really see the point in bringing that up.
Not even IDENTICAL TWINS have identical genes. Here is some material on this:
As i said not even Yamato who is a CLONE does not have the exact same genes and ends up with a weak ass Mokuton. He had some genetical variations.
I have no idea how you got to the idea that trough hereditary information she should have her grandfather's mokuton. That was not a normal traied passed down like human eye collor or whatever. Hashirama was more like an abnormality, a mutant a or a freak of nature has LnDRash put it. You need his DNA and his DNA alone to do mokuton. The traits passed down would be the normal senju ones like chakra, body, longevity and what not but his wood element was not part of those traits. It was a mutation or something.
Last edited by xXan; January 04, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
People think she is a horrible fighting character because all Kishi lets her do is healing other, and never have a screen fighting for her own. The fight with Kabuto, kishi only show when she is already exhausted. So at that time, undoubtedly she sucked, but let's not forget that not until then Kabuto would dare to fight her. He did think that she would be suck after all these years stay out of the battle.
What you see is in that fight, kabuto managed to damage her severly and she could only do so when he stopped. What i see is in that fight, not only what you see but also that Kabuto didn't dare to fight her when she was still going strong, and only dare to fight her when she was exhausted. Well, that's his strategy, but also suggest that if they have to go on fighting when the two are at their best, Kabuto wouldn't stand a chance
That's why I add "tsunade in primetime", not "legendary sucker" time. JMan said this "no one can stand equal to her in terms of battle and medical prowess"
one more thing, Tsunade in that fight was Mad. vWhy?
- Orochimaru killed her master.
- If it were you, would you like the people that you loved and cared for become a thing to exchange ). Orochimaru had chosen those two to twist and take advantage of Tsunade. So she was mad.
So now, the leaf village dares to entrust the greatest tittle to someone cannot fight against these two kids. LOL. that makes perfect sense!
you can not just hang on to that idea to compare Tsunade and Jiraiay. First of all, i think, she is not as strong in fighting as Jiraiya. That's the fact. But even Jiraiya and Orochimaru has to respect her, not someone so that you take lightly. What Jiraiya and Tsunade do is completly different, like Tsunade was destroying her life and stay away from any thing has to do with battle, while Jiraiya still do something that is useful.Quote:
Last edited by n0air9x9; January 05, 2013 at 10:23 AM.
1. If DNA does not consists any heredity information then how does it form a reliable source of relating one person to another..DNA test is considered to be a final proof of evidence to relate two person as mother/child or father/child....
2. Even if above is false, then what u mean to say that any random person is able to get the power of rinnengan, mokuton, etc..... There is a reason it is called bloodline limit because it passes down the family.. How does that happen?? Its not some piece of good that one gives to his offspring but it is transferred to them via genes which are part of the DNA..
The reason why Neji had the best byakugan is because in the end he was the descendent of the hyuga....branch or no branch..somewhere up the line there was only one hyuga and his genetic material is transfered from him to all the hyuga....
Tsunade is more proficient at healing others, because if memory serves me correctly, we haven't heard anything in this regard concerning Hashirama. However, Hashirama could most probably create new cells to replace the damaged ones without worrying about the body's set limits of regeneration. This is evident from Danzo's usage of his cells to recharge Shisui's eye for the genjutsu in a matter of minutes or so, where as this ability could only be used once a decade.
Tsunade on the other hand burdening her body excessively with regeneration, will speed up her years and die from extreme old age. Her immortal technique doesn't extend the body's set limit of regeneration and hence loses to Hashirama on this front by a monumental margin.
Last edited by shahdan; January 06, 2013 at 01:24 PM.
The weird part is that Hashirama can creat "new cells", while that is the thing bonds us to the word "human".
And that's why i only want to talk about Medical Ninjutsu, not Mokuton backingup.
Most defenetly not. She was getting owned by Kabuto and JMan/Oro had way better feats then her with 4 tails Naruto and Pein himself. She can fight on the front line because of her regen but her ability itself is nothing compared to them. JMan for instance with his SM would be WAY better to have in a fight as damage potencial then Tsunade... She is close to a meat shield.Quote:
She started at 100% so its irrelevant. She was THAT bad. Then vs Madara? PUNCH, Tsunade PUNCH... Good thing Madara was a huge target with his Susano.Quote:
Of course Kabuto managed to damage her as she is a bad fighter...Quote:
Bolded part is complete nonsense. She started at 100% and he did fight her... Did you miss most of that fight? How many panels did you jump?
The fact that she can't hit for shit as he is HORIBLE as a fighter its her problem. The fact that Kabuto could dodge her around its HER problem. She can't hit for shit.
Also your last point on how Kabuto would not stand a chanse is just irrelevant. Show me her ability at "her best" and how she is better then Kabuto. Please do.
Tsunade in her prime did not even have the seal on her bloody head. Tsunade in her prime would be a complete healer.Quote:
She was not mad. She decided to go against him for those 2 dreams... Not at one point its showed that she was mad that Sarutobi died. You are of course free to show me this.Quote:
Also mad =/= not in her full mind or able to fight. Stop trying to find excuses.
Aside for JMan she was the strongest in Konoha when she was made Hokage. Also the fact that they where kids... Not relevant. 1 had cs lvl 2 and the other had the bloody Kyuubi in him with the 4'th tech (rasengan). if they hit her head its all over. Naruto is curently the strongest in Konoha but he is not Hokage. You need more then just raw power to be a Kage.Quote:
Kakashi curently is > Tsunade. He can warp her bloody head away...
You think? She is obviously NOT, anywhere close to him for that matter. Orochimaru with his hands would decimate her. JMan with SM would make her into paste with 1 Ultimate Rasengan.Quote:
JMan most of the time just traveled, had fun with women, drinking and his books. Any time of fight he would be in would end in a few seconds. He most defenetly was not keeping in shape...
Did you even read what i said or you can't understand it? At no point did i state that DNA does not have heredity information, i said it has nothing to do with passing down the exact, same DNA as a parent has to his child.Quote:
You can try and do something else. Take genetic samples from a father and the child and see if they have the same identical genes... Hell do this by taking genetic material from 2 IDENTICAL TWINS that split FROM THE SAME EGG and see if they have identical genes... I think you have no idea what it means to have identical genetical material to passing down traits trough "heredity information". 1 of the identical twins could have genes that would make him more weak to some diseases then the other for instance.
Seriously man WTH? Mokuton is NOT something that a clan shares. Its something ONLY and i mean ONLY Hashirama has. Do you even read what i and LnDRash told you? Hashirama was a exception in the clan, he had some type of mutation that alowed him that ability.Quote:
Take Uchiha they all have the sharingan and MS (asuming they can get it) but the techs they can use with said eyes are not the same in the clan. Itachi and Sasuke are brothers so they have it...
Tobirama was Hashirama's BROTHER and he did not have it. It was a MUTATION that only ocured in Hashirama.
What does this have to do with anything? I already told you that pased down traits exist like long life, ton of chakra, stamina and so on... Thing is Mokuton is not one of them. You need the exact same genetic material that Hashirama has to be able to use them.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; January 08, 2013 at 03:12 AM.
Show me that before she exhausted, Kabuto dared to fight her? oh, you can't anyway.
Because the fight only begin when Tsunade is out of breath.
From what i see, in the manga, Kabuto could only fight her when she was out of breath. The medicalnin special skill is dodging attack, not attack. So Kabuto is that. Kabuto is strong and somewhere around kakashi level back then, so the fact he could damage her is no surprise.
i already told you and you can see from this, even Kabuto think she sucked since she have already spent more than 10 years away from battle. So now, she sucked in fighting maybe that result from that...
don't judge her ability only base on one bad performance.
Oh, you dont' even really know about this.Quote:
The Tsunade in her prime + The byakugo.
Oh no, that no excuses.Quote:
+> about the third, that's what i see in anime, not in manga. Sr, confused.
+> about the two, i ask you this, if you were a tempered woman, and someone used your two beloved to take advantage of you. Wouldn't you be mad ??? If you are not, we don;t have anything else to argue.
there is a sub there "her angry power"...
Or she would kill him with one chakra enhanced punch.Quote:
Oh, I have no idea about this. The fact it was not mentioned doesn't mean he's not.Quote:
Sage Mode or not, he is still killed.
Anyway, since Tsunade performance was bad, i have no more to argue. vWe are talking about the medical skill vs Hashirama.
Last edited by n0air9x9; January 09, 2013 at 06:10 AM.
You can't be serious. Fight starts here, she is at 100%:Quote:
Next we got to see if this:
Kabuto kept fighting her to that point. She missed all attacks of course as she is bad as hell.
The fact that nobody could land a blow on 1 another is irrelevant to the fact that they both started at 100%. She did not had to fight some other ninja and he jumped in when she was exhaused.Quote:
Before in her "prime" she did not even had her regen skill... She was a medical nin sitting on the sides...Quote:
Then we have JMan just as old but his skill is so far above her's... He also did not had nay real combat since the war.
Can you give me a better one?Quote:
Oh yes i do, Orochimaru himself confirmed it:Quote:
Irrelevant. The mad factors does not make her brain dead. She had a clear headed fight. What you think Naruto was not MAD AS HELL at Pein? Yeah try to blame his bad performance there on MAD to...Quote:
Also where did you get the "take advantage of her" part? It was a clear fair trade. She heals his arms and he gives her those 2 loved ones back... At no point did he stated anything untre... Then she decided to fight him because of what those 2 would actualy whant... To protect Konoha. If she would heal his arms he would attack Konoha again...
Of coruse there was some anger there, you expect her to fight them with love or what? Thing is she did no go mad and swinged like an idiot.
Yeah right... Kakashi has above Kabuto dodging skills with his sharingan... She would drop from exhaustion before landing 1 punch on Kakashi... Kakashi would rip her appart with 1 single Kamui.Quote:
Of course he died vs Pein but how is this relevant? Tsunade would get completly stomped by Pein. JMan with SM would also own her... Even with that drug in his system and JMan was damn sure he can kill Tsunade if she sided with Orochimaru.Quote:
I didn't say that Tsunade wasn't started at 100%. Both of them started at 100%. But in the fight,before Tsunade exhausted, did you see Kabuto FIGHT? NO. You can't guarantee that he FIGHT Tsunade, or just DODGE her attack and wait until she exhausted than fight her. Kishi may have cut the sence when Kabuto only dodge her attack and show when she was exhausted and he fight.
In a fight against someone who is also skillful medicalnin, who should be proficient at dodging, Tsunade shouldn't just attack without thinking like that.
She may have known how to use it. She just don't use it when Orochimaru's around.Quote:
Tsunade is a type of woman who is hot tempered. A fight against two such strong opponents need a CLEAR head. Not a head who can still be bother by their feelings and anger. That's what Orochimaru and Kabuto have, not Tsunade. That's why when she was controlled by her emotions, her skill seems even worse than the way it was. And of course i don;'t expect her to fight them with LOVE, are U trolling?Quote:
Since you hold your ground and won't seem to except this aspect, we don't need to argue more.
I even doubt this more, are you just praising Kakashi skill unreasonably.Quote:
Kakashi has sharingan, kabuto has medicalnin dodging skill. From what i see, Kakashi could kill her or not depend on Who stryke on point first.
Of course Tsunade can not defeat Pain on her own. But compare to Jiraiya, Tsunade's technique doesn't get encountered as much as jiraiya, since she fight mostly base on taijutsu, which except for deva path, all other path doesn't seems to be the problem.Quote:
Oh, please. Jiraiya is extremely strong but I even doubt he could survive in that state if Tsunade really intended to kill him.Quote:
I am sorry but this is completly irrelevant. The way he whent about in fighting her is perfecly legit. It was hard enough to hit her as 1 hit from her and he is DEAD.
How he dodged her around is meaningless considering we are debating her fighting skills. She can't hit SHIT.
You also need to take into acount that it was Kabuto's plot as he could not kill her, he needed to buy time, find an opening and disable her... It was a HUGE handicap for Kabuto and a HUGE bonus for Tsunade.
Tsunade's punch, punch, punch and endure is the ONLY way she knows how to fight. Look curently vs Madara... Same shit.
That was a fight 100% with Kabuto at a big disadvantage.
Its not like they where part of the same team and she was always around as a medic to heal them... Oh w8 she was... You actualy think she as part of the team would not inform them about having that? Orochimaru clearly stated she developed that LATER. Also you think in all the fighting they had to do not even once that teach could be usefull? She developed it and kept it hiden and never used it... Does this really make sense to you? Not even vs HANZO? Come on.Quote:
Then again her head tatoo thing would be vizible if she had it.. You think Orochimaru MISSED it? How the hell would that happen? He never looked at her forehead?
She had a clear head... The fact that she wanted to punch them is irrelevant. This are ninja's for God's sake. She was not influence so bad by emotions that she can act... Of course if you think she can do better do post it... I can show you vs Madara and doing just as bad and only hitting huge ass mass of chakra aka Susano.Quote:
"facepalm" what medicalnin dodging skill... Please provide a source for this? Where was it stated that medics have a magical dodging skill... Then you can try and prove how this medicalnin (makes no sense btw) is better then a SHARINGAN PREDICTION TRICK that allows you to dodge someone on Raikage level of speed when Naruto needed chakra mode. Oh yes show me how whatever that thing is ends up beeing better then the ability to know where an individual is way before he even knows he is going to be there.Quote:
I can't w8 for the above evidence.
Going by shown feats Tsunade can't land 1 blow on Kakashi and he can warp her head off before she can move 1m. He could warp a huge arrow the size of a body faster then he could move his own body (he is fast then Tsunade btw and he has huge prediction ability) some 30 cm's to dodge said arrow.
But yes i am really curious where you got this "medicalnin dodging ability". Please provide it.
Aparently you don't know much about Tsunade. Its not taijutsu, well it is and horible one at that but her punches are chakra based to do that damage. Pein can remove chakra and ending up with a soft punch leaving him going "lol wtf was that".
Then JMan with frog kata, speed, power and sensing ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2 pages of this) Tsunade's taijutsu.
JMan also has insane versatility, shields, fast speed attacks, able to create smoke, Katon combo with 2 elder sages burning at thousands of degrees, 2 elder sages on his sholders (Tsunade can't even find the camelon lol), super genjutsu, barriers to detect crep and a ton more.
Wtf does Tsunade have? Me punch? You can't be serious man, you really can't. Tsunade compared to the 2 other sannin is CREP. Orochimaru with NO HANDS only using his tongue gave her a good fight. Orochimaru with what showed vs 4 tails Naruto would anihilate her(he could not do jutsus with his hands there to btw).
Last edited by xXan; January 09, 2013 at 10:27 AM.
IF Tsunade in her prime is just healing, when she is damaged by Kabuto, she think "that brat may surpassed me in my prime", in fighting skill. Then you suggest that even now she is better than her prime thanks to her byakugo. Well, that makes perfect sense! vhy she didnt think that kid surpass mine now.
and please, don't SHIT SHIT all around like that.
Oh, i'm not sure about this. Develop now or then, it's not seem to be the problem since the start i stated "Quote:
Tsunade with the skill in her prime + the byakugo" now.
HANZO, what would be useful to use against him since she got her teammate back up and she almost just heal. The seal is just a chakra store. And the technique is the key, not that the must be the seal to use the technique.
a field medical-nin must have the ability to dodge, if they want to stay alive on battle. I remember Tsunade stated this before. And Kabuto is a skillful Medical nin.Quote:
Kakashi and Sasuke useage of Sharingan is different. I don;'t see he could ever predict his opponent move? And one more thing, if kakashi is so proficient at the kamui, why in the fight against Deva path, he didn't just wrap that thing head? Oh wait, he can't. That technique consume his chakra so much and consume time while Tsunade can creat a crater withn a blink.
A sanin be defeated just that easy. Do you think that Kakashi can just easily remove her head? Please!
actually, aparently, you are the one who don;t know much about Tsunade. Her own raw strength was enough to do that damage, she is not sakura, her strength is 5. Her kick is only strength-based and make a crater. The lifting Gamabunta was chakra enhanced. Are you confused? Before he could remove her chakra, she could have given him one kick send him flying.Quote:
Jiraiya power, like punching power, even at his SM was only near to Tsunade normal strength, not to mention she use chakra enhanced. And his nature strength is nowhere near Tsunade power.
wait, do you consider this a useful source??
Oh, then BIG technique = more power? Big technique if you missed wouldn't mean anything.
Jiraiya is strong, and i already stated this, Tsunade can't win Jiraiya in battle with their full strength.
One thing, Tsunade as long as her Byakugo activated, she can;t died. But he still can in the SM.
But anyway, Tsunade can;t win Jiraiya by anychance they fight so don't have to argue more..
About Orochimaru, oh sorry, the tongue thing doesn't seem to work eh? He tried to force the life out of her and the result is one of her punch sent him headdown and flees.
He can do SHIT to 4tails. He tried closerang ninetail then what, it splits his bodies. While Tsunade with her kick can send him headdown to the ground )
Orochimaru in that fight was impressive. And I never said she could win Orochimaru. But not defeated easily.
Tsunade is not an extremely powerful fighter, but she is not weak. That's all i'm saying. With the Hokage tittle, i don;t think she could be Madara take down so easily, (not Madara edo)
BTw: you're the first one to compare the sanin, so CREP you. And I never mentioned one point that she could win them in battle.
Last edited by n0air9x9; January 10, 2013 at 01:02 AM.