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Thread: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad <3

  1. #46
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    To be honest, the only reason why i disagree with your theory is because zestu is one of the weakest characters in the manga.
    SERIOUSLY ???
    IMO if you are talking about all the clones that were later cultivated by Obito then i can agree with you, but if you are talking about Spiraly and Black zetsu etc (who were clearly shown superior then those clones) then i don't see them as one of the weakest.

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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    He was also the least known about character for a long time.

  3. #48
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    To be honest, the only reason why i disagree with your theory is because zestu is one of the weakest characters in the manga.
    Combat-wise he isn't fierce or anything (unless he has a useful host), but he's obviously resourceful enough to spy on every character ever, manipulate so-called manipulators, intercept a bijuu sealing like it was a football, apparently, record and project video with his mysteriously-special telescopic eyeballs... the list goes on. It's the mystery that we weren't led to believe was a mystery, directly contrary to Tobi obviously being Obito (like we all guessed at first) and being led by the nose by Kishi for so many years. IT WAS ALL TO LEAD US AWAY FROM ZETSU

    ...I shouldn't be posting so early. If anything, the way Zetsu interacts with Madara is suspect at the very least. What are their motivations for being endlessly subservient to this guy? Are they just gonna sit there and put on shades and sip lemonade while the IT happens and Madara wins?

  4. #49
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    Combat-wise he isn't fierce or anything (unless he has a useful host), but he's obviously resourceful enough to spy on every character ever, manipulate so-called manipulators, intercept a bijuu sealing like it was a football, apparently, record and project video with his mysteriously-special telescopic eyeballs... the list goes on. It's the mystery that we weren't led to believe was a mystery, directly contrary to Tobi obviously being Obito (like we all guessed at first) and being led by the nose by Kishi for so many years. IT WAS ALL TO LEAD US AWAY FROM ZETSU

    ...I shouldn't be posting so early. If anything, the way Zetsu interacts with Madara is suspect at the very least. What are their motivations for being endlessly subservient to this guy? Are they just gonna sit there and put on shades and sip lemonade while the IT happens and Madara wins?
    They are his Jutsu so I don't see why they would go against him.
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  5. #50
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradhimself View Post
    They are his Jutsu so I don't see why they would go against him.
    Inyouton isn't "his jutsu", technically. Madara certainly didn't invent it and he (and we) can't be sure of the consequences of just creating living beings with full sentience AND sapience. I won't accept "he used the jutsu that made them" as a good enough reason for their undeserved, but unquestioning loyalty.

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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Zetsu is a support of Madara that can control the war because of multiple White Zetsu's.

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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    Inyouton isn't "his jutsu", technically. Madara certainly didn't invent it and he (and we) can't be sure of the consequences of just creating living beings with full sentience AND sapience. I won't accept "he used the jutsu that made them" as a good enough reason for their undeserved, but unquestioning loyalty.
    May be he programmed them instead of leaving them free

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    May be he programmed them instead of leaving them free
    That's why I say it's weird the white Zetsu specifically said he and the other were made with different personalities ("invective" and "vocative"). Seems strange Madara would make countless goofballs that "talk back to easily to their master" on purpose. If he could go through the trouble of just outright programming their entire will, why would he go out of his way to give them that grating (to him) personality? He seems like the kind of guy that would just make a million of himself if he could do it. Instead the Zetsu are nothing like him, even the Black one, imo.

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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    That's why I say it's weird the white Zetsu specifically said he and the other were made with different personalities ("invective" and "vocative"). Seems strange Madara would make countless goofballs that "talk back to easily to their master" on purpose. If he could go through the trouble of just outright programming their entire will, why would he go out of his way to give them that grating (to him) personality? He seems like the kind of guy that would just make a million of himself if he could do it. Instead the Zetsu are nothing like him, even the Black one, imo.
    I didn't mean programming completely when i used word Programming. Instead I meant that he simply programmed them just to obey him and not to go against him and let them live whatever they want and whenever they want.

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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad <3

    Now that the whole Ashra / Indra reincarnation thing has been revealed, I also think that Zetsu being the ultimate evil would make sense. If we assume that Zetsu is an evil spirit that had possessed Indra from the start, and over all his incarnations, that'd explain many things. Madara was that fateful reincarnation to awaken the Rinnegan, which enabled him to extract Zetsu from his spirit, and to give it its own shape. Then, that would make Sasuke the first reincarnation not possessed by Zetsu.

    Madara himself calls Zetsu "his will", which to me always deserved more of an explanation. If we think of Madara as having been possessed by Zetsu all of his life, driving him to turn against Hashirama and to keep looking for ways to become more powerful without bounds, then it makes sense that towards the end of his life, he'd call that evil spirit "his will".

    Obito had also been possessed by that spirit for the longest time. He even called himself Madara, which symbolizes that he didn't have an identity or a will of his own, but was merely an extension of Madara's will (aka a puppet of Zetsu).

    Both became obsessed with the Moon's Eye Plan. That should be the spirit's influence on them. Whatever justifications they made up for themselves, like eternal peace, are meaningless. It's simply that spirit's will.

    Then, the obvious question would be what's that spirit at all? Kaguya? The tree? Something else? Who knows?
    Also, why is Madara still evil after creating Zetsu? It might well be that Zetsu is only part of that spirit.
    Kishi might still unravel the story in many ways. I now agree that this is a very plausible one.
    Last edited by Sergei von Luckner; April 23, 2014 at 04:26 PM.

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  12. #56
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    I think that ultimately, Zetsu follows only Kaguya because she is the spirit behind the Juubi and the Gedo Mazou, probably also the one behind Hashirama's wood powers that originated the Zetsu race in the first place.

    Kaguya is likely the Bigger Bad of Naruto with Zetsu acting as her agents while Madara plays the same role as Nagato played for Obito by gathering her power back to her.
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  14. #57
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    I think that ultimately, Zetsu follows only Kaguya because she is the spirit behind the Juubi and the Gedo Mazou, probably also the one behind Hashirama's wood powers that originated the Zetsu race in the first place.

    Kaguya is likely the Bigger Bad of Naruto with Zetsu acting as her agents while Madara plays the same role as Nagato played for Obito by gathering her power back to her.
    Kaguya is really where everything gets absurdly complicated. We understand bijuu/host mechanics pretty thoroughly by this point, but a lady eating a magical fruit, becoming a godlike being and apparently asexually reproducing are all pretty fantasmical stuff even by Naruto standards.

    Other things we don't know that can be tied into my theory later:
    • virtually anything about Rikudou's brother
    • what the shinju was before becoming a 'sealed god' in the shape of a tree
    • how/who stopped Infinite Tsukuyomi when Kaguya used it
    • the nature of Kaguya's death

    With that in mind, I'm starting to feel like Zetsu might be the nega-version of the Sage's brother, now. The otherwise-unknown hero who I described as sealing the world's despair somehow, invented sealing, maybe had something to do with sage mode, etc. I'm thinking Rikudou did the heavy lifting in that fight, but he needed his brother for the actual sealing?

    ---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 AM ----------

    Could've at least given a reason for the edit.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad <3


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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad <3

    yep zetsu was the big bad

    but answer me this

    if black zetsu was strong enough to take over obito and take over madara

    why didnt zetsu easily capture all of the jinchurikis?

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    Re: I WAS RIGHT - On Zetsu being the big bad <3

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    yep zetsu was the big bad

    but answer me this

    if black zetsu was strong enough to take over obito and take over madara

    why didnt zetsu easily capture all of the jinchurikis?
    It's kaguya. It's her will inside of zestu.

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