Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

[claremore]

Thank you, upoladers and God Eye Galatea for the translation I'm glad to see that there is some kind of acknowledgement of Priscilla rather than that is the 'monster that surpasses the abyssals'. I wonder if this Riful thing was only introduced for this chapter and has no other purpose...because it's clear she's going to be killed by Priscilla probably in the next chapter.

[Elandyll]

OK to those who tink clare can beat Priscilla, how she can do it? Went she can no beat casandra with the help of almost 8 or 10 awakened and 6 ghost I mean it a battle of 18 or 16 vs 1 who is supposed to be imferior to Priscilla that would be a classic ass pull, .
and riful doll I'm sure that her full awaken form.

Who says she can't?

How much have we seen her fight since her return really, and at what amount of her potential?


Yeah...

P.S: Thank you for the translation GEG, that was amazingly fast

[Ryus]

Agree with Gooral... less was more in this case. Not only was half the chapter not needed (saying it could have been speed up) but Yagi did a very poor job showing Priscilla's emotional attachment to her dad nor really explained why she hated yoma more than everyother claymore throughout history, thus degrading the quality of the buildup about her past set up in the Teresa arc.

Other than using sheltered little Priscilla to explain the villagers plan by way of forcing dialog and getting scared there was no dialog between her and her family... I can assume of course the other victims where her brothers/sisters but did I know who they where... or care. Really how am I supposed to sympathise with Priscilla after seeing that dialog... it made even the Hysteria fight seem well written with dialog that got me to understand character motives, no matter how stupid it was but here I'm forced to make up my own story of Priscilla's dad doating on her or what just caused her to go bonkers with Yoma afterwards more so than others.

Worst of all... what happened to the "he made me watch" dialog Priscilla said to Teresa? Did Yagi just forget about it? Hell, after just realizing that plot hole a mere I moment ago, ****, I now feel the anime did a better job in the BS flashback in Pieta. This isn't right... I loved this series but I feel let down now... maybe as bad as after seeing the Star Wars prequels.



Oh the fight was insanely predictably... only interesting part was puking up of The Destroyer but in a oh thats how he removed her influence kinda way not top 10 for the series kinda way (hell not even top 47)... still vs "Riful doll" (lame ass name and character btw) we all know how this fight will end. It's just a question of how many chapters Yagi will draw this out till Priscilla wins

The fake ch was WAY better imho

[God Eye Galatea]

I thought at first the pages for Priscilla's flashback was a bit excessive too, but then I feel if Yagi sensei had put that much emphasis on it, then it may actually hold some significance, and may even be the key to Priscilla's downfall.

With Dae possibly uncovering something about Priscilla's past and that event being shown to us, I have come a with a theory.
Claymore Priscilla was created using the flesh and blood of her yoma father. As a result, there are two different personas or personalities living inside Priscilla, one is the innocent girl (good and sane one) who despite yoma, and the other one is the twisted guardian angel influenced by her yoma father's flesh and blood (evil and insane one). Normally, when a warrior is created using the yoma's flesh and blood, the yoma part becomes dormant, but in Priscilla's case since it was someone very closed to her it has affected her differently. When Priscilla was in danger, the twisted guardian angel took over.

Here are something interesting to consider, if it is really the case.

- Priscilla's awaken form, a twisted angel, or a twisted guardian angel
- Awaken Priscilla doesn't see little girls or doesn't attack them (young Clare and young Ophelia surviving encounter with Priscilla), twisted guardian angel is protecting young Priscilla who is a young girl.
- As Claymore Priscilla felt she was going to be killed by Teresa, she actually internally called out for help, called her papa for help, then evil and insane Priscilla (twisted guardian angel) emerges.
- Claymore Priscilla is a natural at completely suppressing her yoki or yoma side. (Good Priscilla despite yoma, she probably denied that part of herself.)
- The Priscilla that have travelled with Raki for 7 years and did not eat during that time.

Awaken Priscilla probably first lost her memories after she realized she have become an awaken being which essentially to is a yoma to her, perhaps seeing her own reflection on her Claymore sword, after all she flew off with it after awakening. When she first awaken, her memories are very much intact, talking down at Irene and generally having a cocky attitude. When she is shown at the extra scene, naked in town and eating people's guts she seem to have already lost her memories and was clueless.

How would all these would be ultimately be Priscilla's downfall? The answer would be the good Priscilla. Good Priscilla would hold the twisted guardian angel Priscilla back long enough for Clare to finish her (them) off in a way to free her from herself. There is even a possibility that Cassandra may serve as a physcial host for one of the Priscillas, if it really the case.


Not sure if it was intentional or not, but I can see another reason from this chapter why Priscilla was so attached and drawn to young Raki. She said it was because of the faint scent, but I believe it was because subconsciously young Raki's appearance reminded her of herself so much when she was a young girl! (It surely reminded me of young Raki lol)

After seeing Priscilla 'exorcist-ing' the Destroyer out of her body physically, it would finally put to rest any arguments that the Destroyer was only mentally invading Priscilla. Is this really the end for the Destroyer? It is more likely than not that it is defeated and won't be coming back, but unless it could still draw life force from somewhere (perhaps Cassandra or the high ranking awaken beings, they too must still have a purpose).

The Riful-Doll has a very creepy smile... It actually talks and seem to be conscious, unlike the mindless zombie-like Hellcats armed Dauf. It is still a mystery of what it actually is. The Destroyer blacken mass that Priscilla vomit out when it tried to move seem to be identical to the Riful-Doll's tentacles hair, not sure if it is any hints.
(Ahem... As for the name Riful-Doll (looking at you.. @ Ryus), it doesn't have a name at all. I actually came up with that name, as I explained, it looks like something that took on the shell of Riful, as it is not Riful herself. Feel free to use any name you wish or you think that fits better, as it is nameless in the first place.)

Finally, what did Dae uncovered at the end? Is it from Priscilla's past or it is something else?

I actually like the actions from the fake chapter more as well, but let's see how all this will play out.


P.S. You are very welcome, about my translation.

[Goral]

Thanks God Eye Galatea for your translation :).

As expected, there was nothing crucial or interesting in the first 15.5 pages. The only thing worth noting is that there was at least one human (not counting MiB or Claymores) in Claymore world who could use his brain. He should have patented this method. Although MiB would probably want to shut such person up and it would soon turn out that he had died from old age by having a sword in his throat ;P. BTW, this method could be improved if they would isolate only adult men who wouldn't hesitate to kill although it would be harsher for the families to function (not to mention it would be even more shitty to not leave the room, literally).

Anyway, as dany la fou pointed out it would fit better as an Extra Scene rather than actual chapter (because the point of this flashback could have been cut to 1-2 pages). That way Yagi would be able to show the things Ryus mentioned. E.g. he could show how Priscilla started to worship MiB/Claymores after she would see what glorious work they do (she became their fanatic after all and is the only such case that we know of). But I'm not sure I entirely agree with Ryus (finally :D) that this scene lacked in dialogue between her and her family.
IMO it wasn't necessary to show more than he had (and it would be very difficult to create a sense of closeness between them in so little pages, look how many pages it took for Clare and Teresa), especially since in her case it would be super boring. And wasting pages/bubbles on letting us know that the ones youma killed were his mother, brother and sister would be even more pointless since we knew that already from chapter 23 plus this one (they locked families after all). It was along the line of Raki-Zaki relationship, i.e. it's clear by what we saw that they loved each other. It's also interesting to note that youma regretted not eating humans earlier which could be interpreted as attachment to his food (or more likely, he was just hungry but the other possibility exists).

Worst of all... what happened to the "he made me watch" dialog Priscilla said to Teresa?

If you're referring to the "he ate my family before my eyes" I'm guessing it's just poor translation on Viz's part (as usual). If we took it literally then yes, it would seem that Priscilla was a witness to everything, not the end result (for the most part). But it would be strange for youma to make her watch while he eats and while sword was nearby or to not kill her on the spot and eat even younger guts. There is also possibility that Priscilla interpreted it that way and said so. Nothing to be annoyed about IMO.

Edit:
Great theory GEG :).

[The Based]

Ah, it's the classic tale of villagers trying to find the werewolf. Nice, clean swing there Priscilla. I'm sure she'll make a fine swordsmen someday. We should be getting the next part of her story next month from Dae's perspective.

The only reason neo Riful wasn't so talkative before is because the Destroyer just isn't very sociable, same reason it never gets invited to dinner parties. Looks like it was desperately trying to absorb Riful to gain an advantage but instead it got locked down in an unwinnable 2 on 1 fight.

[wickedsmile]

I don't know if it's an issue of interpretation but the dialogue in the manga has changed from its beginning into the current chapters. It used to be far more active and in person as if individuals spoke to each other. Now it feels as it characters are giving recitals on events. What did Goral call Deneve: Encyclopedia Deneve? His only error was not encompassing all the characters in Claymore because they all speak as if we're reading an explanation from a reference text.

We already knew Priscilla's past? Her family was murdered by a Yoma and she was brough/sold to the Organization. How the hell does this advance the story? Priscilla isn't the only warrior that had her family ripped from loving arms. Do we not remember Ophelia? I just reread Chapter 40 Fit For Battle (Part 4). You can feel the internal conflict within Priscilla as she realizes what she has become. She finally empathizes with Clare when she see her plight mirror that of her dead brother. In Clare, she sees someone who would throw caution to the wind, risk life itself for the sake of those she loved and those she lost. That's what Ophelia's brother did to save her. In Clare, Ophelia begins to see parallels with her own brother.

There are qualities of characters to which most of us aspire. There are relationships, the quality of which we long for and yet have attain. It was a very human and emotional story, even in the midst of raging inhuman monsters. These days, we have Claymore Britannica (for the older members) and Claymore Wikipedia (for the younger members).

The item shown in the spoiler is far more interesting reading, these days. Yes, that was the text I used in college.

[Goral]

Actually after reading God Eye Galatea's theory (one of the best I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot) I don't find it pointless any more. If thanks to these 15.5 pages (s)he (BTW, you could tell us your gender already :P) could come up with such interesting idea then it wasn't wasted after all. It may very well be the case and if it turns out to be true (hopefully) then it would show that Yagi actually knew what he was doing. We'll see in a few years I guess.

On the other matter, how could Dae could know that this monster is Priscilla? Did he read a report about a one-horned AB (if there was one like that, since the only people who knew what happened were Clare and Irene and later Isley)? Because recognizing a young girl by looking at her body should be impossible.

[lordoffantasy]

Thank you, upoladers and God Eye Galatea for the translation I'm glad to see that there is some kind of acknowledgement of Priscilla rather than that is the 'monster that surpasses the abyssals'. I wonder if this Riful thing was only introduced for this chapter and has no other purpose...because it's clear she's going to be killed by Priscilla probably in the next chapter.

except for the fact thsi goes against the typical formula with priscilla. generalyl she gets temproarily overpowered, she gains the uper hand, and the enemy never lays another hand on here. here we see her smarting off to the irful doll and losing a limb for her arrogance. not to mention that the riful doll is still not at full force just yet. arms and legs awakened does not mean she has taken her true form as of yet, not to mention she regenerated and use it as an attack at the same time, like priscilla can do.

---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

lame name? i take offense to that. i am kind am the one who circulated it. becuase it Fits. this is a hollow form of riful, a thing in her shape and nothing more, much like how a doll is but the shape of a person.

so you predicted the part where the riful doll manages to get a bit of payback agaisnt priscilla the moment she let her guard down? you know, blasting her arm off at the same moment she regenerated, like Priscilla often does.

this is not a fight between two ill matched opponnents. this is not priscilla vs the twins, nor rigardo vs flora. it is not even cassandra vs the other tw ressurrected abyssal. this more akin ot isley versus the cat like abyssal. two entities of very similar strength. isley was stronger, and perhaps priscilla is the stronger on here as well, but after that fight isley was left vulnerable to riful. only thing that saved his bacon was priscilla, unmatched till riful doll here appeared. the thing can hurt priscilla with ease. look back at the pervious fights, and you know that the exchange between them showed that her opponnents were nor match for her. even the small advantage that the infected douf gained was because of a lucky blow.
............. so far the damage riful doll inflicted before, and after, were not blows of luck.

while more than liekyl priscilla may well win, this does not mean it is gonna be an isntant victory like before. its like how you normally know that in a story a hero is gonna win. however, we do not know how that will happen or what is lost before that outcome.

---------- Post added at 01:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 AM ----------

.............and saying the fake chapter just shows a personal disdaing for the actual work. considering priscilla was decaptitated in that, thus totally dead, and that the riful doll would have jsut obliterated cassandra in a few moments because, quite bluntly, she far surpasses cassandra as much as priscilla surpassed the original riful.

---------- Post added at 01:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

it is one thing to be told, another to be shown. i think priscilla was one of the very, very few claymore canditates to have killed a yoma before becoming a claymore.

not to mention we got to see the yoma cry there. very, very similar tears that raki's brother shed. which seems to hint at a greater horror with the yoma.
their hsots are aware they are under control, and are stil concious even as their bodies devour their victims.

---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

cause he, as a head researcher, probably has been present for the creation of every claymore, and he is obsessed with the ones of particular power. this man probably understands the powers of the yoma better than any other human being in the claymore world. least those who are at this reserach outpost.

[The Based]

I don't know if it's an issue of interpretation but the dialogue in the manga has changed from its beginning into the current chapters.

Mmm, I can think of quite a few recent, non-exposition lines that I liked though others might not agree. Yes, I love my cheese, don't judge me bro. I liked Deneve's speech to Miria. I liked Raki's lines. I loved "spun by my eight comrades, these are my wings." Those are just a few examples. The biggest shift I would say is Clare not being the center of the universe anymore for better or for worse. No less relevant by any means, just not all encompassing. Indeed, most non-fodder deaths of the time directly contributed to her growth so being near Clare is dangerous. The few others contributed to the growth of the other ghosts i.e. Veronica and Cynthia. It's just a different scenario where you have many competing factions instead of Claire and Raki get involved in some deep ****. I dunno, I just became more emotionally invested in Claymore in the last 2 years than when I marathoned the anime in uhh, 2009, I think it was.

And Miria is by the far the biggest Claymore nerd. While others used the organization's archives as a means to fall asleep faster she memorized all 1,850 pages. Helen regretted bringing Miria on a double date when she kept going on about former #22 Serena the Suave of the 56th generation from section 71 part C in the archives, an awakened that has eluded the organization up to this point by being so smooth.

Now I just want to do a bit of housekeeping. The purpose(s) of the flashback is not to convey new information. One thing is that you don't just cater to those that started reading in 2001 but to those that decide to jump in the middle of a running series. To get those people up to speed you want to reiterate some major plot points that haven't been brought up in a long time, case in point, Clare telling her story to the ghosts. Next, "memory" is the one word that defines Priscialla's motivation and this was an appropriate time in an arc focused on her. For her latest memory power up we could just have had exposition on black pages, but visuals are far more powerful, and I'd say the main antagonist deserves that much. Lastly, I predict it's going to directly lead into another portion of backstory. There was questioning as to what makes Priscilla so special no questioning Teresa though and that answer should be revealed soon. I could post a pic of my Federal Taxation Comprehensive Topics text but that's not relevant to anything; just my recommended read for insomniacs.

[Ancy]

Seeing Pricilla spewing the left overs of the Destroyer was one of the things that disappointed me this chapter. I do not understand why Yagi, after he invested so much time and pages into describing the formation of the Destroyer, chose to portray a “disdainful death”. So this is what is left of It -spew? Why is it that the author gave somewhat “honourable” deaths to all his warriors, except the Destroyer? As I recall, they all died battling their opponents, only the Destroyer “reached higher lower levels” as vomit. The whole dishonourable pass over is surprising for me, since I always believed that Yagi used a faint scent of Bushido to portray his warriors (even the awakened ones).

"Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live" is a notion that will probably describe this chapter best.

[littleangel]

First of all Galatea, you wrote an incredible theory here that if Yagi uses, then it would all make sense of how she will die and with a good twist. Now about the chapter which is divided into two sections, the first being about the history of Priscilla which I loved (not that much but love it still) because it sends us back to the very first chapters in Claymore which is the life of a village scared and threatened by a Yoma which is trying to eat them all, and the emergence of two sides one who wants Claymores to come and a second who is scared even from Claymores and want to end it themselves (Not to mention the money needed). I don't know but I felt like everyone just needed a little bit of time to go back to that time when Yomas were the greatest threat and we didn't even know about ABs, AOs, Priscilla or even the Destroyer just Yomas as the prime evils!

The way I look at things going is that even a Yoma with very strong emotions can change the way of thinking, as we have seen with Priscilla's father who attacked all the members of the family except Priscilla who he loved the most! Could this be a way to beat or at least reduce the "take over" by strong will and pure emotions? I don't think it will beat but reduce it to a very low extent because after all he did eat the rest of his family. And looking at the scene, it doesn't differ much from the anime which I find strange.. Both ways Priscilla had a will that is quite rare for her to kill someone who she loves the most at a moment like that, makes me think that it was no wonder that she is the monster she is right now.

Now the question is, why did she stop herself from remembering all those memories?? We can theorize why did she seal them, but why to stop herself from remembering??

The fight between "Riful" and Priscilla is quite strange and apparently just a little in favor of Priscilla and so "Riful" has to use tricks to beat her else it would mean nothing at all because she is at a disadvantage already and without a strategy it would be worthless except to the ghosts which would be considered as pure luck.

@Ancy,
I suppose because she was formless with a shell and that shell is long gone when Priscilla got rid of her she had no form so she became like this, if it were Riful then she would come in her awakened form but this had no form so this could explain why she appeared like this (a vomit!)

"Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live" is a notion that will probably describe this chapter best.

Amazing quote.. Indeed the best to describe this chapter.

[Ryus]

Uh nice theory GEG (I really like the whole dads flesh can take more control over the mind aspect to it, let alone how it could explain Priscilla's power level) ... but uh... Claire would be a fool to trust Priscilla to stay still long enough by keeping "her dad/yoma half" in check. Why? Its practically deja vu of Teresa with Priscilla, if that doesn't set off warning bells in Clare's head she'd deserve to share Teresa's fate. This would have to be played without Priscilla telling Claire what to do (Priscilla being noble at the end but unknown to anyone but the audience at the time, though I suspect Deneve will figure it out quickly and explain it again to us based on recent track records) or Claire charging in for the kill even before Priscilla could finish talking to be believable... then again with the decline in the quality of writing maybe not the case anymore, maybe he'll do it plot holes be damned.

As to the name Riful doll. I didn't mean it as an insult to its creator. I just meant its not quite in character (its kinda acting like dauf too for instance) and sounds more like something that just didn't translate well between English and some Chinese spoiler.

@Goral by family dialog... I just meant we didn't even get a thought from Priscilla thinking "oh crap it ate mom and sis" or sis trying to calm young Priscilla down. Or a half still alive sister being feed upon. I wasn't wanting it dragged out any further, just more character development vs what we got with endless plot device set up talk. Now as to the true dialog, go figure Viz fucked up, but even the correct "he ate my family before my eyes" is only half correct due to this flashback. I mean seriously if you where told by someone there family was eaten by a monster before there eyes, you'd imagine the person witnessed the whole thing not walked in long after it was over... BTW how the hell didn't she hear them being murdered? Did she sleep through THAT? Or did he kill them another way first? Did he eat them at Superman speed? (Though he looks like hes a slow eater to me. Even the correct dialog makes the scene as inaccurate as the Viz dialog, just in a different way

Random thought: how did such a small girl unsheth and weild such a large sword... especially quitly enough to sneak up on a yoma. Oh well, at least by using such a sword we can tell Yagi was at least trying to distance his flashback from the anime's axe.

[Elandyll]

While I like God Eye Galatea's theory, I am afraid it gives a tad too much credit to Yagi's story planning

We will see hehe.

I also thought about my earlier comment regarding the rather strange lack of focus on Clare after her return, and came to the conclusion that this is in order to pull a series of "Wows!" on us, kinda like her little stroll through Cassandra's heads.
By withholding informations about exaclty what happened in the Blob, and just how much potential Clare might have reached now by both absorbing Rafaela's memories -and- a probable sizeable amount of Yoki in the Destroyer (let alone the original suposed potential of Theresa), Yagi keeps a "fog of war" around Clare in order to pull out some surprise moves against Priscilla.

ex: as Usual with Pris, Clare+Ghosts will at first seem to inflict a lot of dmg on Pris, but suddenly she will regererate in a heart beat and inflict massive damage on the Ghosts (imo possibly killing several. The maiming w/ afterwards repairing with no lasting effetcs has become a joke, even for Yagi I'm sure).
What I expect next is Clare to be either believed dead -or- about to be crushed, but thanks to all that "unknown potential" she can make a come back. That is also on par with most of her previous tough fights.
Possibly insert GEG's theory about the "good Pris" helping to hold back Awakened Pris, and you could have a nice finisher move right there,

My 2cps

P.S: Imo all the ABs like Chronos or Octavia are just filler to drag it on, just like the new Claymores (like Dietrich) or the new ZAOs were, might as well get on with it.

[Goral]

@Ryus
Yeah, Priscilla killing youma seems far-fetched especially since she was younger than I thought (or just retarded if she needed help of her parents whenever she needed to pee). It's not the first time it had been mentioned though, I remember discussion like this way back. But yeah, it's a valid concern.

The maiming w/ afterwards repairing with no lasting effetcs has become a joke, even for Yagi I'm sure (...)

Hope dies last. Unfortunately I don't share your optimism and I'm almost sure that no Claymore will die. And even if, they can always ask Dae to resurrect someone by using Priscilla's/Destroyer's/Riful's/Cassandra's bits after they're defeated. With the amount of material lying around he can probably ressurect all Claymores in history . Also, it would still be lame if Deneve, Helen and Miria would die. After all they've had god-mode all this time (so why would it change suddenly?).

---

I'm starting to think that Clare's big mistake was as simple as it could be, i.e. attacking Priscilla while not being strong enough. If she would fight her then it would mean her death or awakening which would result in exchanging one monster for an even worse monster. So Rafaela, as Teresa's mentor felt responsible for Clare and wanted to help her. And she did that by absorbing her and Priscilla, giving Clare time to train in a Hyperbolic Time Chamber while Priscilla was occupied fighting with Destroyer ;P.