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Now to compare to a more recent event, Miria explains to everybody what horrible things the organization did, that they are responsible for the youma and that the island is just a testing ground for them. The organization is just plain evil and threatens the lifes of everybody that lives on the island and they have to be struck down for the greater good, but Miria (the most tactician and cool headed of the bunch) decides that such important and vital task is not worth making her friends dirty their hands (is really dirty to kill humans that are far worse than any one the monsters they killed before?), she goes in a quest alone reducing her chances of winning to zero. Now like in some generic shounen (no this is not a good thing mind you), she takes on all the claymores that are in the organization which amounted to 20-30 claymores, including the single digits ones and defeats them all without being scratched and killing any of her enemies (it is alot harder to defeat someone without killing them after all). After that more than impossible feat she is finally defeated by the twins combined with that claymores special ability, but oh wait Miria can die just yet time to turn on plot armor... without speaking with each other all claymores just come down to the exact same mind set and decide to spare their foe (really?it is beyond impossible for 20-30 people with completely different personalitys and backgrounds to just agree with the same thing without talking or discussing it), and they hack and slash Miria right in front of the organizations mans and they dont figure out whats happening (this is acctually the most believable part of this whole event).
Now Mirias whole mission could have being handled in a much more believable and consistent way, it is just poor writing to pick someone like Miria that has being shown to keep her cool and think things thorough going in a suicide mission without any chance of sucess, and challenging all the claymores in a head on battle. She could have made use of the fact that she dosent release any youki to get inside the headquarters and deal with the humans there for instance without having to fight the other claymores that would have being far more believable.
There are other examples along the manga, like Priscillas annoying and dull way of fighting, every single fight she behaves exactly the same, gets slashed around for god knows how long and it looks like she is finally gonna lose and then she fully regenerates after some random flashback and makes minced meat of her foe in a matter of seconds (it has being done so often on the last few chapters that it is not only repetitive but extremely predictable). Now if you cant see any drop on the quality even with what i just said, great you can enjoin the manga more than myself but it is there if you pay attention.
I think that maybe the explanation for why Priscillia is that strong might be that the Half-Youma she has inside her, is her father.
Maybe having such "love" for the youma that was inside you make you stronger.
It could possibly also explain why Claire is that strong, since she loved Theresa as well.
-rule of cool ( Miria charging on Organization head on and cutting everything in her way ).
-plot armor ( she actually survive all that, all Claymores too ).
And there are many people who like that kind of things, believe me. In my hobby's story these things happens all the time, only on much larger scale. And today it is the most impressive sci-fi background ever created despite having stories that are exactly like this one. And judging by Claymores ratings now ( the ones with Goral reported ) there are lot of Claymores fans who like this too.
Of course, I too am for more realistic touch. But sometimes you just cannot win.
---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------
-his combat skills and use of tactics
Every Claymore has unique yoki, some are great ( Teresa, Priscilla, Galatea, Miata... ) and some are small ( Clarice, Uma ( pre-timeskip ), Clare ( pre-timeskip ). But sometimes yoki that emerges in some candidates are monstrous, two such examples were Teresa and Priscilla. And of course, the more older the Claymroe is the bigger it yoki becomes and with that the more stronger Claymore is ( Uma who was weakest of them all has become single digit material in just 7 years ). Reason why Priscilla was strong was because of her yoki who was large with her even at her beginning ( she was given number 2 right off the training ground while others start as small numbers and have to train for years to reach big ones ), and when she awakened her potent abilities were released ( she was already a titan among Claymores before awakening, so after awakening she became a god among them ).
Clare is strong because she is smart, even if her yoki was small at beginning she used tactics and strategies when in battle. And she still contined to do this even after her yoki became stronger.Quote:
And yes, one of the reasons why she is strong and cunning is because she want's to exact revenge for her mother and protector Teresa and to not let all others who died alongside her ( Elena, Ophelia, Jean, Flora... ) died in wain. She is also driven by her desire for her friends and people that she cares about be safe, and that is one powerful motivator. So because she is not fighting just for herself but for others she has one hell of a motivator to stay alive and that helped her a lot in her path so far.
There is also a possibility that she can be the strongest being in the continent because she is carrying Teresa's remains in herself. And if some theories are correct with time that power will be available to her when she became strong enough and then she will became as strong as Teresa was in terms of pure yoki - if not even stronger.
The problem with such conventions, is that it was part of Claymore's draw that it did not use them...that it was a cut above the rest and didn't have to rely on them. I don't dislike them either...but something that some new readers may not understand, is that the story becoming conventional like this is a bad thing....that the quality of the artwork has gone up, but the quality of the story has (arguably, and I use that deliberately) gone down.....that their is so much focus on this bit gorgeous battles when, back in the day, it felt like a rarity to see even one fight (instead, we were treated to "boring" talking and focus on the characters which I loved)....but that was okay, because you can bet it will more then make up for it -- when Raciella showed up, I had difficulty keeping track of what was going on because their were all these little "events" going on at the same time (Helen/Deneve/Claire against the HellCats, Cynthia and Yuma and Dietrich and the AF's, Riful and Dauf and Alicia and THEN Priscilla) instead of just focusing on one main event that draws you in....Quote:
Ugh, forget it; no more ranting
^I also argue that the art quality has gone down, + everything you said. (he can draw bodies better than ever, but no real environment/shading)
I personally have no problem with that so far, but you are right. I choose to accept the explanation that they survived now because they will be needed later for something - and some few chapters later we have them battle Cassandra and Priscilla, I can see that Yagi wanted all of Ghosts fighting here and that's why he spare them in Battle of Organisation ( aldo he lowered the plot armor effect by having all of them fighting just one resurrected AO while the two others were busy fighting each other, still he could handle that part a little better ).
To me it's a matter of preference too, I liked the prior Claymore that was simpler, stark, shocking and merciless. There's lots of action now but I don't find it as meaningful.
Assuming that Clare and Priscilla will fight, how do people think it will go down? Like people have said, I think it's plausible that Priscilla could remain the strongest thing in Claymore and still be defeated (Yagi has set up something between Raki, Clare/Teresa & Prissy), but I also think it's plausible that Clare could become stronger. The reason why I say this is because the odd thing is I can't really see Priscilla being killed. In some way (and this chapter reminds me) she doesn't really deserve it. She is a cold, heartless, arrogant bitch now but still... in any case I'm looking forward to seeing how things turn out, as long as it's not all 'we are all victims of the org! let's understand each other, hug, and cry!" i.e. not like the anime ending
After thought: if Priscilla is killed, I think in some way it would be tragic and that would be more consistent with the themes of the old claymore that was so harsh
Sorry for being persistent, but I've noticed my last post has been moved to the hang-out thread.
Although I haven't stated straightforwardly, I wrote this post specifically in response to the art presented in Chapter 135, as well as indirectly replying to the few posts about the drawing effort such as the one on this page. In fact, it was the discussion on this page that motivates me to reviewing the interview. I didn't want to sound rude to state specifically, because after all it's a subjective matter. But as subjective as it is, I thought this way could hint at my support for this current chapter in terms of the 'disputable' effort by Yagi-sensei. But I'm guessing I do have to clearly write out my mind for the mildly subtle implication to be received.
In fact, the first thing I notice in Chapter 135 is the remarkably drawn background of the village as shown in the first half dozen of pages. I sense a lot of emphasis has been done on the condition of the place, most of which I think Yagi drew himself as I presume only he would have been the best candidate for producing what's in his mind. Shadings are most likely done by assistants, so I'll leave that one out in terms of Yagi's effort. However, I think he has drawn more than enough people and faces to make me think that he must have had a hard time this time round (not including the villagers in the background.) Don't want to sound as if I'm only making this up now, but having been reading Yagi's work for a while now, it's hard not to notice the fact he has trouble with faces, and he's formidably brave and skilled enough to have been able to convey emotions through their expressions in this chapter.
The other thing that often goes unnoticed is the careful planning of panels, or the storyboard as you would call it. Indeed a basic for mangaka, but doesn't mean not appreciable even if it's only your typical build up. A lot of thought must have been put into this: to make the events easy to understand, to make the story flow smoothly, at the same time to give a strong enough impact at the climax. The one reason I didn't write directly in response to the previous few comments is because it will probably come off as really rude, and I don't intend to be at all, but in my honest opinion, Yagi has given the effort in this chapter for an emotional build up. He knows he doesn't want to drag on for more than a chapter, because by all means he has considered fans like you guys who want new information and progress in the story, but at the same time he wants us to understand Priscilla's background to a more personal level (her father, interaction with other villagers, her household etc,) hence his 15 pages of flashback rather than 2 or 30. And for this reason, I think it is not fair at all to bash on Yagi like this for the subjectively unsatisfactory chapter being presented here. Coincidentally I noticed Goral has kindly provided the interview on another thread, which would help explaining his intention on the whole when drawing Claymore chapters, hence I went ahead and see what I can do with it as a subtle response to the discussion being held here.
I'm gonna stop here writing my discussion because I'm hungry and need to eat :P Now this is off-topic.
After re-reading the chapter a few times, I must admit at having been a bit "overly critical" of Yagi's work, although I do feel, as many of you do as well, that he missed the mark in this chapter. Specifically, he missed the mark with the earlier part of the chapter, where he focused nearly half of the chapter on the mechanics that led to the "climax" of the story, Priscilla killing her father.
The death of a parent is never an easy moment with which to contend. Having to kill your parents to save yourself or to preserve the life of others is something completely incomprehensible. Had Yagi focused on that specifically, he could have given us a chapter that might have rivaled Marked for Death, the Endless Gravestones or Invasion of Pieta. In truth though, it would probably be very difficult for Yagi to surpass the cornerstones and defining moments of this manga.
In regards to Yagi's drawing, I was pleasantly surprised by how he drew the town and surroundings. It was quite reminiscent of the earlier chapters, which contained quite a bit of detail. I don't find Yagi's interpretation of the human physique completely appealing but neither do I find it unappealing. Although, he does tend to overemphasize certain body parts (trapezius muscle for example is huge and makes the warriors look like body builders). The expressions of "shocked" individuals and crying warriors needs to go though. It's been over used.
As much as I'm generally defensive of this chapter, I do agree that he has somewhat "missed the mark" as you put it. If I should be critical, judging from what we've been presented until now, I think Yagi-sensei has somewhat 'run into a dead-end' in this matter. I'm probably overly imaginative about this, but this is my train of thought:
- Priscilla's past has once been implied at the beginning: Yoma killed her parents if I should recall correctly. However, no further elaboration has been done on this until now.
- Yagi knows he needs to elaborate on this at some point.
- Pris is currently psychologically fighting with ElaEla, a battle for the control of 'self.' What better time to go sentimental with her than now?
- Simply Yoma killing parents isn't enough of a flashback, hence a twist. Primarily: Yoma takes over parent, Pris kills her own parent. Secondary twists/flashbacks could include (my wild guesses): Pris's first meeting with the Org, Pris becoming a Claymore in an 'unconventional' way or discovery that Pris is especially gifted (as hinted by Daae) etc. Basically, there are two parts to her flashback: Pre-Claymore and Becoming-Claymore.
- One of Yagi's goal is to create a somewhat personal connection with Pris in order to emphasize enough on her background and current mental state (namely character development through emphathy.) If there were too few pages, not only a connection cannot be established, we would probably be saying, 'there no point for a flashback.' If he had only gone for a few pages, it is likely that Yagi would not have used the Yoma-kills-parents, Pris-kills-yoma twist at all, and a flashback may not be worthwhile.
- Here, going for 15 pages of flashback only about her family is a possible suggestion that there is gonna be more later. Now that the family background has been explained, Yagi's next intention can be somewhat deduced by the fact that he returns straight to the current battle, with Daae's dialogue in the last panel. It is possible that we would get to see Priscilla becoming a Claymore and her general interaction with the Org in the past. And I wouldn't be surprised if Daae takes over with the flashback from his point of view for obvious reasons, whether in pictures and/or in blocks of text.
- The logical development is basically this: Pris x ElaEla psychological battle → Pris flashback leading to her victory (flashback serves as motivation, hence psychological advantage) → back to present → Daae takes over with flashback.
The reasons Pris may not carry on with the flashback are:
1) Pris has had enough remembering the painful past;
2) Pris has psychologically beaten ElaEla already;
3) Pris's point of view is limited in what is about to be told;
4) Emotional side of her past has already been established.
Reasons for going back to the present:
1) End of flashback for Pris = beaten ElaEla;
2) Possible transition to Daae's point of view for more relevant information;
3) Daae+Rubel needs to mark their presence and importance more significantly, and it would be wise to leave the rest of the background info for them to explain.
- While Priscilla's (two-part) flashback is a must, due to the simplicity of the Flashback Part 1 and the reasons above, he cannot summarize it in 2 pages, nor does he think it would be suitable to go for 30 pages. Also with this, Yagi can say he has gotten half of this out of the way.
With all that's been said, my point is that, this is probably the only way to satisfy the requirements above. Not that I can think of other ways, nor am I saying there isn't another way.
Also, there's a slight possibility we'll continue with the current battle. I mean com'on, Da-ful has just transformed :P
That is more certainty then possibility, the battle will surely continue along this flashbacks. Riful Doll finally became serious and attack her with full force, how long will that last we shall see soon. But as we know nobody so far lasted more than 2 seconds in battle with her, so my hopes are not high even for Riful Doll.Quote:
Quietly, without making any noise she grabbed that sword and killed him. Did she mean to kill her father or did she mean to kill the yoma? Or did she blame the yoma for taking over her father? Whatever, the answer might be, the truth is that she did not hesitate in killing her Yoma/father.
From that point on, the hate she accumulated made her mentally unstable ~ to the point she snapped and transformed into an awakened being. I wonder if she realizes that she is what she hates the most: a gut eating awakened being. And the most funny part is that the painful memories and that particular hate make her stronger every time.
Last edited by Ancy; February 08, 2013 at 03:55 PM.