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Thread: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

  1. #121
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    However, I have noticed that Prissy did not put much thought into trying to understand what was going on with her father, whom she absolutely adored. Quietly, without making any noise she grabbed that sword and killed him. Did she mean to kill her father or did she mean to kill the yoma? Or did she blame the yoma for taking over her father? Whatever, the answer might be, the truth is that she did not hesitate in killing her Yoma/father.
    Ah very good points here. Personally I draw my conclusion (subject to change as we possibly see more talks of the past) from the following:

    - Pris expressing her fear in the way as you would hear from a child --- Page 9
    - First surprise that completely freezes Priscilla in her track --- Page 11 last panel
    - Noticing something's really really wrong. Then, realising the rest of the household killed --- Page 12+13
    - Priscilla's only inner thought --- Page 14+15
    - Crying Priscilla --- Page 16 double-page

    We can tell she is at least very close with her father, at the very least entrusts her security to him (it is something very significant if a child entrusts their security in a person as it literally means the world to them. And I literally mean 'literally,' lol.)

    From Page 1 and Page 9, her familiarity with Youma is minimal, as expected from a child. We can imagine her not understanding what really is going on, yet knows that there is something known as a Youma hiding as a human and poses life-threatening danger. As well as fearing the unknown, it is somewhat hinted that Pris also fears death of not just hers but also her loved ones as a typical child would.

    Now for the turning point: Her world's been flipped upside-down, her 'father' turns out to be the Youma/bad guy/something wrong with him, and she realises she is the only survivor. I can think of two main types of reaction before the panel she sees the sword:
    1) She realises her father is the Youma;
    2) She realises there's something really wrong with her father.

    The above two points can determine, to an extent, the mindset for her next action, which is the incomprehensible as we all know.
    1) She kills him knowing he's the Youma and she thinks she knows what will happen next (Youma kills her);
    2) She kills him because she knows something is really wrong, but isn't really sure what will happen next i.e. comparable to killing out of fear, killing with the natural instinct to survive.

    Yes, (1) can also lead to killing out of fear, but more important to note is that: (1) requires a definite and unquestionable mindset, and (2) reflective of action in the midst of confusion.

    Both reasons are valid for the fact that she creeps up behind him and *seemingly* gone for a sure-kill, beheading slash (I think the art suggests so. However the hit has not connected and it is possible for a twist.) Both reasons are valid for how surprisingly composed she is when she takes up the sword. However, (1) has to be out of determination to at least a certain degree and (2) out of fearing the unknown. (1) can also suggest a hint of Priscilla's vengeance, but I'm not as keen on the idea because I believe you would need time to consolidate your vengeance, and in the heat of that moment I doubt she is in the state to become determine in revenge. She tells Teresa this in Clare's flashback, but I don't consider it to be accurate of her actual mindset from that time because quite some time has past, and the emotions from her recollection is subject to change.

    Personally, I think it is (1). The tears in her eyes *before* she makes the kill are evident that there are emotions involved (yes they could be out of fear, but her "I don't want to remember any further than this" suggests otherwise.) And I would presume emotions most likely mean she knows she's about to take out her own beloved father. ※
    The reason I also write out (2) is so that you can compare the difference in mindset and let you imagine what it could have led to, and correct me if you think otherwise.


    ※ Also, there is something else to consider for (1):
    Does anything run through Prissy's mind when she comes to find out her Youma father? Namely, the fact that it isn't her father she's been living with but the Youma for the past month or two? She might not have thought deeply about this in that instance, but it may have been an subconscious flash of thought. If so, what effect does it bring to Pris at that point in time?

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  3. #122
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    The thing about trying to humanize Priscilla at this point in time, is that older readers of this story have sort of stopped caring about her past. After seeing her for literally years as a bored, silent, merciless, stony, stolid, methodical killer ... the time to really reveal her motivations are long gone. The perfect time to actually give the readers this labored detail into her origins would have been, literally, around 40 chapters ago. That's why people aren't as into her reveal now as you might imagine. Perfect timing would have been at the height of Destroyer arc, but Yagi had so much going on in the story at that time that it much easier said than done and yes I realize that. But that's when Priscilla was kicking the most ass, and, this chapter now would have been perfect as either an extra several years ago, or its own chapter years ago.

  4. #123
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    while I'm sure I have a bit of bias on my part, I was all too happy to see the flashbacks -- did they seem to come from nowhere? I suppose, but we obviously have to assume the reasoning for having them in the first place will be given as time goes on (one possibility is that her death is actually coming sooner the we might think -- moments like these always happen right before a character's death) -- Dae has already more then implied that we're going to get more flashbacks and insights into her character, which means Yagi has finally decided to devote time to her in a meaningful way to make sense of and streamline her character, which I'm more then looking forward too.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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  6. #124
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ancy's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    Excellent analysis, Utsune. The point about fear is legit in my opinion. It can explain her behaviour and her hate towards yoma and everything else endangering humans (? Teresa). Fear can be a complex emotion which can lead humans to undertake incomprehensible actions. It also causes hate for things perceived as threat. Moreover, fear is the trigger for the fight/flight or freeze response.

    The interesting part is that Prissy experienced at least two stages of this response, which is rather complex and inexplicable. The shock of seeing her dad chomping at her sister resulted indeed in fear which made her freeze at first. But suddenly, she composed herself, grabbed the sword and attacked. Then the emotional part kicked in and Prissy started to cry.

    Now, according to psychologists, the fight response is about survival, hope. It activates when humans believe there's a chance we can outfight our attackers. On the other hand, the freeze response, is activated when's there's NO hope. Was the sword Prissy’s hope to survive? It seems a reasonable explanation, especially when considering that she first acted, then became overwhelmed by emotions. In other words, she reacted instinctively to a threat and then grasped the full overview of the situation ~ she was about to end the life of her beloved father~ which made her shed tears ~ .

    Quote Quote:
    ※ Also, there is something else to consider for (1): Does anything run through Prissy's mind when she comes to find out her Youma father? Namely, the fact that it isn't her father she's been living with but the Youma for the past month or two? She might not have thought deeply about this in that instance, but it may have been an subconscious flash of thought. If so, what effect does it bring to Pris at that point in time?
    Well, she probably realized that he was responsible for all the killings in that particular village and beyond. The funny part is that he showed remorse at some point (his monologue). At first, he estimated that he won’t need to feed for two weeks, then he regretted he’d stayed sober . If he had eaten before those two weeks, maybe he would have refrained from munching his family. Was he remorseful OR did he fear being caught?? If he was indeed remorseful, then Yoma(s) do experience emotions/conscience!!?? That will take the whole Yoma/awakened beings story to a total new level…ahhh so many questions.

    Another interesting point is his reaction to sneaking Priscilla. He does not seem to notice her, which is pretty funny! Aren’t Yomas supposed to have enhanced abilities of some kind? Considering that Yoma are hypothetically half Dragon kin, shouldn’t they have enhanced abilities ~such as smelling and hearing??
    "I've always believed you were meant to stay!
    I guess I was wrong!
    "

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  8. #125
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    The sword was one thing I forgot to talk about. Nothing major, but I think when Priscilla saw that sword, it feels to me that she could have had a sense of responsibility run through her mind at that instance. No idea what kind of responsibility, it's quite a subjective take anyway, since that is what I get out of the art from those few panels. Regardless, the fact she could remain collected and made the 'right' decision (note that we're still not 100% sure what her exact mindset is) to kill her own father is quite admirable in terms of bravery and as a sign of maturity (which unfortunately isn't kept in check.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    Well, she probably realized that he was responsible for all the killings in that particular village and beyond. The funny part is that he showed remorse at some point (his monologue). At first, he estimated that he won’t need to feed for two weeks, then he regretted he’d stayed sober . If he had eaten before those two weeks, maybe he would have refrained from munching his family. Was he remorseful OR did he fear being caught?? If he was indeed remorseful, then Yoma(s) do experience emotions/conscience!!?? That will take the whole Yoma/awakened beings story to a total new level…ahhh so many questions.
    You're absolutely right about a revelation to our understanding of Youma. It's reminisce of the time Raki is attacked by his 'brother,' when both stream tears in their eyes while attacking their own family members. I haven't put much thought into remorse in his dialogue, but now that you've said it and me trying to reread it with that in mind, it is quite possible indeed. However, as a counterargument, the first link you've provided here could merely be the Youma acting out the father's personality and nothing more. The second link could just mean 'he' needs 'his' family to stay in cover. With all that's been said, this doesn't deny the fact that he is shown to be crying, and Yagi suggests that he has been crying *before* he even turns around to see Pris. This brings us back to the age-long question about whether Youma are Youma in mind, or Youma taken most control of the human mind, or simply humans distorted in the mind as discussed in the other threads (can't remember which threads.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    Another interesting point is his reaction to sneaking Priscilla. He does not seem to notice her, which is pretty funny! Aren’t Yomas supposed to have enhanced abilities of some kind? Considering that Yoma are hypothetically half Dragon kin, shouldn’t they have enhanced abilities ~such as smelling and hearing??
    Lastly, I have no idea about this myself lol. At first I would just dispose it as artistic licensing, or maybe Priscilla is secretly a genius in not making a sound and such lol. After all, she did go straight for beheading the Youma. And then the smell of Pris is perhaps not too recognisable in that condition. Whatever the case is, there is the possibility that we'll get answers from the next flashback/explanation, direct or indirect, and it still has the full potential to throw me off completely from most, if not all, I've written above :P
    Last edited by Utsune; February 09, 2013 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Spelling errors much more than usual that even I can't stand

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  10. #126
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsune View Post
    This brings us back to the age-long question about whether Youma are Youma in mind, or Youma taken most control of the human mind, or simply humans distorted in the mind as discussed in the other threads (can't remember which threads.)
    I think that depends on individual, while most of yoma's are cold heart some of them had shown remorse for their actions ( Priscilla's father and Raki's brother ). It really depends on individual and his personality. But from what I have seen so far it seems that yoma takes most of control over it's subject, good example is Raki's brother. Even if yoma 'cried' that didn't stop him from eating his uncle's guts, and I am sure he would devour Raki too if Clare didn't intervened. The only ones who can control their actions in that state are awakened ones ( Ophelia and Isley are prime examples ), because the difference is that they received flesh inside themselves instead of parasite itself.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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  12. #127
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    My personal theory is that contaminated humans gradually transform into a full fledged yoma in the same manner a claymore transform into an awakened being. It could be that Priscilla's father knew about his were-yoma self, but did not want to involve his family in this, so he preyed on random neighbors.

    In any case, Beyonce looked as if she used more than 60% of her yoma energy during the superbowl performance.

  13. #128
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    When analyzing Priscilla in this moment, it's important to remember that she's someone who became an Offensive type....she chose 'fight' over 'flight' unlike, say, Deneve who hid underneath the bed -- rather then running away or hiding in some sense out of fear for her life, she chose to fight back; it was in her nature.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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  15. #129
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ulquihorror View Post
    My personal theory is that contaminated humans gradually transform into a full fledged yoma in the same manner a claymore transform into an awakened being. It could be that Priscilla's father knew about his were-yoma self, but did not want to involve his family in this, so he preyed on random neighbors.

    In any case, Beyonce looked as if she used more than 60% of her yoma energy during the superbowl performance.
    ...... you guys remember taht yoma intetionally imitate people right? the family was to further disguise himself. if they died and he survived, then total exposure. that is how yoma operate.

  16. #130
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    Re: Claymore 136 Spoiler thread

    PREDICTIONS for Chapter 136-

    1. Generally I believe it is certain that the next few chapters will feature the all-out battle between Riful and Priscilla.
    It seems that Priscilla is actually given some trouble by Riful, as she goes "oh, you weren't bluffing" and gets a shoulder damaged.
    Seeing from past examples, I'd assume Priscilla just beats up Riful-doll again.

    2. The mass of Yoki from the Destroyer.
    I have some idea that it, having no actual animated life, will simply reform and begin causing chaos again.

    3. Cassandra and the rest of the Ghosts are still locked in the battle.
    From here, we can assume Cassandra will either go WTF and simply emit insanity as a result of Awakening destroying her mind.
    If this situation occurs, Cassandra will just pwn whatever the ABs are there, possibly killing a few and damaging the top tiers like Octavia.

    The more likely solution is that she will join the battle against Priscilla, but be easily destroyed (we've never actually seen Cassandra go full-out though, so who knows? Besides it was mentioned that during her era, Cassandra's rank 1 holding was considered "absolute") by Priscilla.
    Consequentially, Clare will obviously attack Priscilla and vice versa again, where Raki might finally get involved.
    It's also a good thing we found out about Priscilla's cloudy past; although prior chapters do offer some opaque images (like when she lost her memories or VS Teresa prior to Awakening), nothing too firm has been established by Yagi. Dae also comments about how astonishing Priscilla's past was.

    It also seems that the story is generally approaching a final conclusion.
    It's certainly possible to see the Organization make a move and try to recover from this crisis (although this is where their whole reign over the East, as well as facilities, resources for making Yoma (the Draconic hostages were killed) are all depleted), but they'll probably reform somehow and cause hell all over again.
    Similarly, I guess the Draconic tribe and whatever on the other side of the world will be discussed much more, (Yagi obviously didn't bring in Miria's speech about the "other" world for nothing) so assumptions regarding this can be made.

    I also want to have this Riful-doll/Quasi-Riful thing confirmed.
    To me, it looks like it's Riful with Dauf's pillars combined, so this leads me to infer that its their...offspring? @.@
    Although it could be part of Riful regenerating from her lower body, but that wouldn't necessarily explain those Dauf-like characteristics, as well as that hell of a grin...

    I look forward to Chapter 136...although this slow production rate is rage in frustration.
    In the absolute best situation, we can hope for the Riful-Priscilla battle results in half a year or something e.e
    Last edited by Ancy; February 11, 2013 at 03:36 AM. Reason: moved the post from the spoiler thread. Let's keep it clean until we have actual spoilers!

  17. #131
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    I think that depends on individual, while most of yoma's are cold heart some of them had shown remorse for their actions ( Priscilla's father and Raki's brother ). It really depends on individual and his personality. But from what I have seen so far it seems that yoma takes most of control over it's subject, good example is Raki's brother. Even if yoma 'cried' that didn't stop him from eating his uncle's guts, and I am sure he would devour Raki too if Clare didn't intervened. The only ones who can control their actions in that state are awakened ones ( Ophelia and Isley are prime examples ), because the difference is that they received flesh inside themselves instead of parasite itself.
    As Rimuto explained to Miria in the Organization's secret facility with the Askaram, the flesh of the awakened Draconic and the un-awakened one are combined to form a wriggling parasite that inhabits the victim's brain/mind.
    However, how does this parasite get into the victim's body?

    One theory;
    It's assumed that human victims are actually brought to the Organization, then the parasite inserted, and thus re-incorporated back into society.

    However, this is unlikely for a long period of absence would arouse suspicions of the victim.
    More likely is probably an original Youma somehow carrying/producing these parasites and infecting other humans (sort of like a zombie invasion).
    In response to the quote, I would say the parasite simply controls the host's body and actions, but cannot control its thought.
    With Zaki, you could see the brother's body still crying tears, thus explaining no absolute control over the host.
    But you could also notice that the brother's body was not trembling or holding back, so that suggests all voluntary action can be confined by the parasite.
    Although it could generally vary over the parasite's level of control over its host.

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  19. #132
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    I hope Yagi will show us one day how yoma parasite infects people.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  20. #133
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    I wonder what the parasite will look like. I always pictured it to look like the Parasite Queen from Metroid Prime or the electronic parasite thing that was implanted in Neo in the matrix

  21. #134
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    I imagine it to be more of a wrigglish worm type of thing.

    Anyways, on topic;
    @Ancy:
    I agree, the father probably had some enhanced abilities.
    -My unnecessarily detailed explanation below.
    Youma are basically humans who have become mutated with the parasite modifying their genetic DNA and structure via the brain (probably producing new genes and cells).
    The parasite was created from the decaying flesh of the Awakened and un-awakened Draconic tribesmen that were captured.
    Although we haven't seen what the Draconic tribesmen can do, we know that their hide is extremely tough (tougher than Dauf's, probably!!!)
    This doesn't seem to be evident in the Youma that are created, seeing that Clare slash them in half easily.
    Thus, the parasite seems to be something completely different.

    Now, from here, we also know that Claymores themselves are made from Youma blood and flesh, which is originally from the Draconic tribe.
    We can assume from the Claymores a lot of things, as well as the few thing Rimuto confirms to Miria;

    -Draconic tribesmen can awaken (have a normal/awakened(amplified and superior form)
    -Draconic tribesmen decay very fast (at an unbelievable rate)
    -Draconic tribesmen live hundreds of years

    Claymores seem to exhibit most of these characteristics; we can also assume that the Draconic were fast and could heal themselves.

    However, Youma power is defined to be Yoki.
    This poses another argument.
    Since the Yoma originally came from the Draconic, where and how did the Draconic awaken, or even obtain such power?


    Back to Priscilla-

    After I re-read those few pages, I can point out a few things and provide a much more detailed analysis.
    First of all, I noticed that Priscilla seemed well intrigued with the concept of a Claymore and Youma, asking her father about them a lot (probably multiple times in the past).

    Trying to understand Priscilla's intentions, I marked down each frame from Priscilla seeing her father to after.
    So Priscilla wakes up, needs to go pee.
    She seems very delighted and happy when she first encounters her father, who is faced backwards.
    Now, the next frame shows her father hunched down muttering about it.
    The frame after this, Priscilla begins to show slight confusion. (The smile fades, and notice Priscilla still doesn't know what her father did.)
    The immediate next frame shows a family relative with their guts eaten out.
    The next two frames emphasize Priscilla's surprise, and how does Yagi do this?
    With the eyes, as with every single Claymore in the past; they open wide, (but she doesn't awaken unfortunately ;>)
    The next frame is a full view of her father tearing guts.
    And again, another frame of Priscilla, wide eyes and frozen in shock.
    Another view of her mother's guts out.
    Followed by another shot of her eyes wide in shock.

    A few things to notice here.
    We see that Priscilla, despite all this, isn't even crying.
    She's just frozen with shock.
    Yet right after seeing her family relatives, she still does not cry, but rather IMMEDIATELY looks at the sword.
    From here, we see only her hand grasping it, as if the memory is not quite clear.
    Slowly, we see the sword grasped firmly in her hand, raised high in the air.
    And ONLY until after she slices her father in half; that is when Priscilla's clear eyes begin to yield tears.

    From this interpretation, it seems that Priscilla was a very unique child.
    She had fear and decisiveness pool up inside her and then let her tears out.
    Her slaying of her father may have been due to shock, but it seems like it was also voluntarily done as well.
    Notice her firm grip on the sword, and raising it high in the air.

  22. #135
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    Re: Claymore 135 Discussion / 136 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    I imagine it to be more of a wrigglish worm type of thing.

    A few things to notice here.
    We see that Priscilla, despite all this, isn't even crying.
    She's just frozen with shock.
    Yet right after seeing her family relatives, she still does not cry, but rather IMMEDIATELY looks at the sword.
    From here, we see only her hand grasping it, as if the memory is not quite clear.
    Slowly, we see the sword grasped firmly in her hand, raised high in the air.
    And ONLY until after she slices her father in half; that is when Priscilla's clear eyes begin to yield tears.

    From this interpretation, it seems that Priscilla was a very unique child.
    She had fear and decisiveness pool up inside her and then let her tears out.
    Her slaying of her father may have been due to shock, but it seems like it was also voluntarily done as well.
    Notice her firm grip on the sword, and raising it high in the air.
    Ok, you've got me intrigued with some of this.

    Just a bit of random speculation;

    1. Clearly the plan for finding the yoma is really well thought out, for what it is, perhaps even too well thought out.

    2. Priscilla's almost controlled responses to the situation.

    3. Dae's suggestion of some secret behind Priscilla's background.

    4. The personality of the potential Claymore before claymorisation plays a pivotal role in the kind of awakened being created by the process.

    Theory; could the village Priscilla grew up in be some kind of psycological experiment to create a superior Claymore candidate? and thus a superior awakened being?

    Notice that Priscilla dispite being an offensive warrior has the regenerative skills of a defensive warrior. If her offensive response was born of psycological tampering, hypnosis or a instinctually ingrained behavior (in other words mental conditioning), it could be an alternative to the proposed split personality theory.

    It is noted during Mira's speech about the 'waring continent' that the biggest military disaster for the org. side is injured warriors returning home to cause chaos among their ranks.

    Basically;

    She is conditioned to kill at all costs; to kill that which is none-human; and her regenerative abillities mean that she never gets injured long enough to need to flee; all that is required to activate this 'conditioning' is a valid threat to her person - Teresa.

    I also would like to put in as potential evidence that;

    We have seen one other example of such tampering or conditioning; Alicia and Beth who were said to have all the humanity stamped out of them.

    Notice that dispite Priscilla's quickly ranking up, we know that the org. was still working forwards creating twin awakeneds even after the failure of Raphela and her sister.

    Could Priscilla have been considered another 'failed experiment' dispite her power? Or was she considered a success, because she was a proof that such conditioning could work?

    If the latter is true, then because she was only a stepping stone, it might explain why no-one remmembered or perhaps even cared that she had awakened.
    Last edited by Decepticon; February 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcor View Post
    Until (or should I say, unless) Yagi tells us otherwise, it could go either way. It's his story, afterall... so logic doesn't mean squat. But for argument's sake, assuming Yagi hasn't entirely given up on plot development, I'd prefer logic to... whim.

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