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Thread: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

  1. #31
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Well, there's the fact that it was so heavily implied that he was dead. I mean, he got a proper sendoff that was actually really nicely done, and then the whole thing is just negated with him being alive. But even then, he was in a coma and it was said he may never return to fighting form (which I admit would have been pointless), but even that is negated by Zero Division coming in and healing him.

    At the end of the last arc, not one single Shinigami with a name was killed or defeated or anything. It kind of made the Arrancar look like a bunch of bumbling fools. The Vandenreich have actually achieved things, and they're much better villains for it. It removes the air of predictability. They succeeded in killing Yamamoto, which was great, but in a way his death was pretty much a necessity. Byakuya's death was more hard-hitting in a sense, because he's the last person you'd expect it to happen to, given his status as a character. I don't know, had Kubo not gone so far in implying his demise it wouldn't have been so bad, but to give him an actual death scene and then just undo it felt like taking a step backwards.

    Killing off characters can make for some great drama if done right. If overdone it becomes meaningless, but Kubo seems to have gone to the other extreme thus far and it just makes things feel too... safe. Byakuya's case was just some kind of horrible tease; it made it look like Kubo was ramping things up, only for hiim to pull it back.

    Anyway, I'm surprised so many people disliked Quilge (the character, not the battle, although I quite liked the battle too). I thought he was a fun character.
    But if you look back at the manga, Kubo has 'teased' thusly with Ichigo actually dying and being revived ad nauseum. Ulquiorra essentially 'killed him' twice. Orihime stepped in once and 'sheer will' brought him back to protect her when she was in danger of dying. Add to that, Renji, who had a great 'death scene' losing in such a bloody way to Ichigo and even retracing his history with Rukia, then begging Ichigo to save her before collapsing. Kind of reminds me of Byakuya losing, then begging Ichigo to protect Soul Society. Then, Renji went on to lose to Byakuya, where his sword shattered, just as we saw Byakuya's shatter after his battle with As Nodt. And lets not even go into how often Kenpachi has lost buckets of blood, looked dead and then got up again. So, Kubo does tease sometimes to ramp up the emotion. And fair or not, it gets readers to stay focused. And right now, I am so focused on what is going to happen with Ichigo, Byakuya, Rukia, Renji, Kenpachi, Unohana, Shunsui, Urahara and the SK that I am checking for updates, even though I know the chapter won't be out this week!

    As for Quilge, I really couldn't stand his outrageous cruelty in carrying out essentially genocide of Arrancars. He really enjoyed killing them. I can't respect him, even as a villain. (I actually only scanned the chapters he was in because I found him so awful) I think the best villains don't resort to killing except as necessary to achieve their objective. After all, as Ichigo reminded Grimmjow in their last battle, what good is it to be king if you've killed all of your subjects...

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Well, I can't say I was too fond of Ichigo's Hollow rampage revival either, but you're right, it's not the first time Kubo's done the fake death thing. But after what happened to Yamamoto, Byakuya's apparent death made it look like Kubo was pushing it further (in a good way), only to go back to the same formula.

    But yeah, Quilge. He was cruel, but I liked that. Villains are allowed to be obnoxious bastards. Some have a reason, but some can get away with being that way just for the hell of it. To use Grimmjow as an example, he did all the stuff he did simply because it's in his nature. Some characters need an understandable motivation, some don't.

  3. #33
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Well, I can't say I was too fond of Ichigo's Hollow rampage revival either, but you're right, it's not the first time Kubo's done the fake death thing. But after what happened to Yamamoto, Byakuya's apparent death made it look like Kubo was pushing it further (in a good way), only to go back to the same formula.

    But yeah, Quilge. He was cruel, but I liked that. Villains are allowed to be obnoxious bastards. Some have a reason, but some can get away with being that way just for the hell of it. To use Grimmjow as an example, he did all the stuff he did simply because it's in his nature. Some characters need an understandable motivation, some don't.
    You are spot on about some villains needing a reason and some not. So, as a character meant to be that way, Quilge is a strong, well made character. But perception of him by readers will naturally be mixed, depending on what kind of villains they prefer individually.

    I played a villain in a play with our school's theatre guild once and at the end there was a chaotic mix of loud applause and loud 'booing.' My instructor said that meant that I did a wonderful job of portraying the character, and that it brought out lots of emotion in the audience. That's kind of what Quilge gets from readers, I think.

  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Ichigo dying never counts, because he can't die before the manga ends at least. No matter what happens, when he hasn't saved the day yet it's pretty obvious he's alive. And yes, Kirge is an awesome villain. I'm dying to see his scenes animated.

  5. #35
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Cyber34's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Ichigo dying never counts, because he can't die before the manga ends at least. No matter what happens, when he hasn't saved the day yet it's pretty obvious he's alive. And yes, Kirge is an awesome villain. I'm dying to see his scenes animated.
    Agreed, I liked the battle he had with Ichigo because it showed how much of a better strategest Ichigo had become by observing his opponents moves first instead of immediately going Bankai. In addition I liked the way Kirge treated the Arrancar, unlike most I found them to be uninteresting and was waiting for someone to kick their ass like it should be kicked, instead of sickeningly showing them compassion after they try to kill you.

  6. #36
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member StarkPoseidon's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    To be honest, I want this entire arc to be animated, it's absolutely fantastic.

    As for the Byakuya debate, I'm on the side that Kubo was influenced by fan pressure. I was extraordinarily angry when Byakuya was saved but you know what? I don't blame Kubo for succumbing to fan pressure if that indeed was the case. I mean, even Sir Arthur Conan Doyle succumbed to fan pressure...

    I've just come to accept the "troll" that was Byakuya's "Death" and appreciate the effect of what happened to him. You could see his entire mentality was absolutely shredded, he was clearly psychologically maimed and completely outclassed by a clearly superior opponent who made him desperate enough to use his Shikai against his Bankai.

    That effect was staggering. True, it would have been more staggering if Byakuya had actually died, but in retrospect, I think I'm okay with this...

    Here's my list, too lazy to type so I copied Hakuteiken's list and filled in my own choices

    Character of the Year: Yamamoto Shigekuni or Juha Bach

    I'm sorry but I can't choose between the two. Yamamoto's bankai, his death, his actions, his words, everything was just mind-blowing. It was the absolute pinnacle of an already fantastic battle arc at that point. And on the other side you have Bach: Cruelty, Methodical Ruthlessness and Sheer, Pure efficiency of execution.

    What pair of characters. What a villain, what a death for the Elder...I could just keep going on and on.

    Best New Character: Juha Bach

    I see one or two people chose Haschwald. While I do like him, I haven't seen enough of him yet. Bach on the other hand...

    Best Fight of the Year: Yamamoto vs Fake Juha

    The Bankai Showcase and the Incredible Deception...this fight was perfect from the Fiery Entrance to the Atomizer Finish.

    Funniest Moment of the Year: Kirinji flinging Byakuya to the Blood Pool.

    In truth I could have picked any of the Hot Spring scenes but this one was the most funny. He flung Byakuya into the Blood Pool like a beach ball...absolutely hilarious.

    Worst Character of the Year: See Below.

    Worst New Character of the Year (since this is Bleach, I can't name Obito can I?): NaNaNa Nincompoop or whatever...

    Everything about him just annoyed the heck out of me.

    Worst Fight of the Year: Ichigo vs Kirge

    It started off as an intriguing fight but as it went on, I just kept wishing Kirge would hurry up and die already.

    Best Moment of the Year: Zanka no Tachi South: Kaka Jūmanokushi Daisōjin

    Best Technique EVER!!!

    Revelation of the Year: The Quincy Medallions and what they do...

    The absolute perfect strategy against the captains and the Quincies pulled it off magnificently.

    Worst Moment of the Year: Nimaiya's entrance

    Screw Byakuya's "death"...it's been bashed enough, time to move on!

    Nimaiya's entrance was ridiculously cheesy and quite boring considering we'd gone through the whole "Zero Squad are cheesy nutjobs" routine already...

    Worst Revelation of the Year: Bankais cannot be repaired to their previous condition.

    I'm still waiting for a more concrete explanation other than Kubo thinking: Hmm, I need to have some excuse to remodel Ichigo's Bankai again....

    Most Boring Moment of the Year: Nimaiya's entrance.

    3 pages into that chapter and I was bored as hell. Thank god for the rest of the chapter.
    Last edited by StarkPoseidon; January 10, 2013 at 02:01 AM.

  7. #37
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Byakuya saved due to fans? All chapter with Byakuyas "death" have high place in TOC. Kubo doesnt care about anyone but japanese fans and most of them had nothing against Byakuyas death.
    For me it was obvious that Byakuya as the leader of the oldest family in SS wont die when he doent have a rightful successor. If he dies it will be in front of Rukia. He may still play an important rule. We still have the shias history and his parent death can be conected to it (we dont know how they died do we?)
    "Kubo saved Byakuya due to fans" those coments are just immature when Kubo said that he planed this arc for 5 years and no one knows what plans Kubo have for him. He surely saved Byakuya at the last minute because of fans and he was able in a week or two think of everything from how to heall him (Because Byakuya is really the only person who needs Kirinjis help)
    For me Byakuay, Htsugaya and Keny could die since they nothing more than waste of space that could be used by characters who actualy are or have te potential to be interestiong. However because the the head of a noble or the next CC or because of Yachiru the never will die and the manga will always be full of them.

    As for the topic.
    Best Char Yamamoto

    No need to tell more

    Worst char Ichigo.
    Yeah. He himself was even ok, but the wy Kubo tried to makr him look good was just soooo lame.
    Akon and his "Wow Ichigo was able to find out about Quincies in HM before us" or Shinjis " Thanks to you the Quincies retreated" ect ect.... just so wrong. Ichigo goot all the credid even if it wasnt really thanks to him and he had no intention to tell the full story. Well its always that way with Ichigo.....

    Best fight non.
    I would like to say Fake Bach vs Yama, but it was nothing more than a fastion show to showcast ZnT and than Yma was just cut in half without any fight. It wasnt a fight.

    Funniest moment Everything with Kirinji

    Best new Char Bach.... Just Badass

    Worst fight non

    Best moment BanKai Zanka not Tachi

    Best revelation First Kenpachi Unohana Yachiru

    Worst revelation Ichigo Blut it was out of nowhere he still have no idea that he used it. Quincies are nothing more than humans with reiasu just like Shinigamies are dead humans with reiatsu. Having Shinigami or Quincy in a family may help, but one still needs to lear ho to use those powers. Yet Ichigo just used super powerfull defense tech at a level enough to stop Bach. Yes Bach wasnt trying to kill him, but Ichigo was exhausted and he didnt even used Blut it just used itself. Masaki as a quincy not that bad, but still Ichigo should be able to learn Quincy techs simply because he have high reiatsu.
    Last edited by ReiWen; January 10, 2013 at 04:34 AM.

  8. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Character of the year
    Urahara

    Best new character
    Oshou

    Best fight of the year
    As there weren't any shown fights in the Gotei that were off from the scheme to steal the Bankai and turn it against its original owner, I have to take Ichigo vs. Kirge.

    Funniest moment of the year
    Chapter 519: Rukia's butt in the tub.

    Worst character
    Kenpachi Zaraki - after a great entrance, it turns out he only killed fodder.

    Worst new character
    Kirio

    Worst fight of the year
    (Fake) Juha Bach vs. Captain Commander... The moment the illusion dissolved I heard my inner Ackbar which is my inner sign for a major asspull...

    Best Moment of the Year
    The chapter that ended the Fullbring arc.

    Revelation of the Year
    Unohana - the one who has never been seen killing anyone - being chosen to teach Zaraki the art of killing...

    Worst Moment of the Year
    Germans being the worst guys in history... Thanks.

    Worst Revelation of the Year
    Ichigo using Blut.

    Most Boring Moment of the Year
    Kubo not revealing who helped against Kirge but "simply" freeing Ichigo.
    Last edited by hoeru; January 12, 2013 at 07:36 PM.

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber34 View Post
    Agreed, I liked the battle he had with Ichigo because it showed how much of a better strategest Ichigo had become by observing his opponents moves first instead of immediately going Bankai. In addition I liked the way Kirge treated the Arrancar, unlike most I found them to be uninteresting and was waiting for someone to kick their ass like it should be kicked, instead of sickeningly showing them compassion after they try to kill you.
    Kirge's flamboyant, cruel and has a bit of sense of humor too, I always love villains with that mix. The first chapter where it introduced him was so well done. He's just fun to watch in general lol. I also shit brix when he used a new version of the Quincy Letz Stil, I was hoping Kubo would have them use that. The expression on Ichigo's face was priceless, you can tell Urahara gave him a real good idea of how dangerous those forms are. If Kirge wasn't preoccupied with so many people and was only focusing on Ichigo , Ichigo would've had difficulty with Sklaverei IMO. I really wonder who would be a good VA for him.
    Last edited by exacta; January 14, 2013 at 12:10 AM.

  10. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Ok, SO i understand some think it was cheap Byakuya being alive but why not take it for what it is? having him being alive is actually more of a twist then having him being dead with the send of that was. Kubo is not going the obvious way at all by having him survive, the obvious one would be to actually let him die, like with Yama or his VC.
    I just don't get the big deal that is all
    And I do not really dislike Kriege as much as it might seem, I am just dissapointed that their fight wasn't given proper "frame work". As a character he was allright reminding me a tad of the Nazis in Hellsing.
    Meh

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  12. #41
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Ok, SO i understand some think it was cheap Byakuya being alive but why not take it for what it is? having him being alive is actually more of a twist then having him being dead with the send of that was. Kubo is not going the obvious way at all by having him survive, the obvious one would be to actually let him die, like with Yama or his VC.
    I just don't get the big deal that is all
    And I do not really dislike Kriege as much as it might seem, I am just dissapointed that their fight wasn't given proper "frame work". As a character he was allright reminding me a tad of the Nazis in Hellsing.
    In addition to Byakuya's survival being an unexpected twist, it opens the door to some interesting history. I wouldn't be surprised if he encounters someone or several people in the spirit dimension who are connected to his father, who died in battle. Perhaps more will come out about Soujun Kuchiki and what happened to him. If it turned out that he was killed by quincys, it could test Byakuya's professed loyalty to/trust in Ichigo that he showed in his fight with Tsukishima, and in his entrusting the protection of Soul Society to him. Byakuya would then be caught between his love for his lost father and a quincy who he calls a friend. That could be interesting...

    I agree that the fight with Kirge was good, but could have been better if it didn't feel like it was a little 'forced' to put Ichigo in Hueco Mundo and open the door for the quincy attack on Soul Society. It started out that Ichigo was going there to explore what was happening to the Arrancars, but the Arrancars were quickly forgotten as the attack started. Yeah, that could have been done a little better if it wasn't so clear that Kubo needed to get Ichigo and Orihime to a place where they couldn't assist in Soul Society while everything was coming down around the shinigamis' ears. But it's not like I could suggest a better way.

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  14. #42
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    downs
    fullbringer arc
    anime ending
    byakuya being such easy prey
    kenpachis battles all being off page
    yamamoto having the coolest bankai ever only to waste it
    ups
    the bloodwar arc
    rukias butt in.the hotspring
    ichigo being part quincy
    more training!!!
    the ultimate badass aizen making even a short appearance

  15. #43
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Gotenkss's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    • Character of the year:
    Yamamoto Genryusai - Power of the Sun , Nufff said.

    • Best new character:
    Tenjirō -- Anyone talking down on Unohana must have some guts.

    • Best fight of the year:
    Yamamoto vs Fake Juha Bach

    • Funniest moment of the year:
    Tenjirō drowning Byakuya

    • Worst character
    Rukia . Just made her name for showing her butt

    • Worst new character:
    Kirio Hikifune - Looks like no use character

    • Worst fight of the year:
    Kyoraku getting owned

    Best Moment of the Year:
    This Panel
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/505/4

    Revelation of the Year
    Unohana being the first Kenpachi

    Worst Moment of the Year
    Anime being replaced by Rock Lee

    Worst Revelation of the Year
    Ichigo might be the son of Juha Bach

    Most Boring Moment of the Year
    Kirio Hikifune's abilities
    Would you like me to save you?... Just kidding.

  16. #44
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member dopeycheese's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Ups and Down of the 2012.

    Character of the year: Yamamoto
    What more needs to be said?

    Best new character: Kirinji Tenjirou
    Everything about this guy is awesome, most enjoyable and interesting royal guard

    Best fight of the year: Yamamoto vs Bach
    There werent many fights last year, this will do. Also because bankai was used

    Funniest moment of the year
    tenjirou tossing byakuya across the hot spring
    Also, ichigo and renji's reaction face towards slim kirio

    Worst character: SoiFon
    Annoying and childish as hell, cant keep her cool at all

    Worst new character: NaNaNa
    Horrible, just horrible, looks like tousen which probably means he will die horribly as well

    Worst fight of the year: Ichigo vs Hashwald
    One stroke, whaaaaat?

    Best Moment of the Year
    Renji resisting tenjirou's punch, friggin cool moment if ya ask me

    Revelation of the Year

    The first kenpachi

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