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View Poll Results: Do you think kishi cheated you !?

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    22 39.29%
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Thread: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    on topic

    i feel betrayed too

    but for different reasons

    should call swat team right now brb
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; January 07, 2013 at 08:19 AM.

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  4. #18
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    No reason to revived? He killed jiraiya, his master, the one who teach him to be a ninja, and they were suppose to be killed by orochimaru if wasn't for jiraiya. And yet he killed him. And does nagato think of jiraiya when he revived the konoha-nins? Yeah, for me, it's a sign that he sacrificed his life to konoha because on what he did to jiraiya.
    If he regained his own will at the final moment, he should have stayed alive. Killing himself didn't make the things any better. He could have stopped Tobi for good. He could have brought the peace himself with Naruto.


    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Well, we don't know about that. Someday, when naruto get matured and learned his father or mother's skills, then he'll definitely gonna surpass itachi for being a cool and awesome ninja.

    So naruto will gonna surpass minato for being a cool and awesome ninja.
    No, he won't. Naruto will never be a cool character. It's not about skill. Killer Bee is an extremely skillful Shinobi, but he acts the way Naruto does.

    ---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------

    Let me tell you another disappointment.
    That pathetic Hinata surviving and Neji dying. The girl was supposed to have changed her attitude against her match with Neji (have been just reading the Chuunin Exams arc again), and yet, she is still the same weakling who is nothing more than her own unvoiced resolve.
    I didn't really find all this Hinata x Naruto thing interesting, but now, I'm praying for it, so that Hinata can marry Naruto, have numerous children and retire as a Shinobi to look after them. Che.

  5. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brill's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    he didn't write it for himself ... he writing it for readers .... with your logic , he can turn Naruto in main antagonist , and make Madara to main protagonist .... are you accept it !? no

    well , maybe I didn't use prefect words but at least he cheated us , or changed it illegally .....
    That's a misplaced sense of entitlement you have there. Kishi owes nothing to his readers, he owes his publishers a finished product since they have a contract. Suiesha is the only group who has a right to demand anythng from Kishi. We're just along for the ride. Don't like it, hop off.

    Quote Quote:
    actually , his hard work has nothing with current chapters ... he using QB's chakra and plot armor protect him and he has tone of advantage ....

    simply , hard works can't solve anything , that why TNJ come to play ...
    You miss all that training he did trying to master the Kyuubi's chakra? He's worked hard to develop 3 sets of chakra in this story. Their power levels may be drastically different but he'd didn't inherit jack, he worked hard to gain control over them and he still has issues with his latest one.

    Quote Quote:
    anyway , he actually using Qb's chakra .... he has no limit so hard work is a joke .... if I have nuclear energy in my body and have so much advantage , then I wouldn't stop .... this isn't any specific things ... almost of all of characters in manga doing their best and won't stop till their end .... but they haven't plot armor in their and QB in their sides that Naruto has ...... for example , if kages has Qb in their body , they could rise and fight Madara over and over !!! so Naruto isn't unique ...

    and Bijju accept Naruto because RS predicted Naruto coming ....
    Naruto's run out of the Kyuubi's chakra 2 times since he joined the fray. He's not unlimited.

    Quote Quote:
    no , but I didn't except he become the child of prophecy and chosen one by destiny ..... he doesn't have to overcome it till the end but it not mean he should be chosen one by destiny ....
    But has it changed Naruto? No it hasn't, he's still the same clueless kid we learnd at the beginning. Has he learned to accept his "curse" now as a "gift" from his parents who loved him, yes. He has accepted his father's charge to save the world from Tobi, but hasn't changed who he is at his core. I really am baffled why people get so obssesed by notions of destiny like it's some nefarious plot to convert you to some shady cult.

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  7. #20
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
    Betrayed, How so? It's Kishimoto story, and he doesn't owe us anything. Misled maybe, but not betrayed. Ultimately, it's his story and he can change what he wants about it. You can not agree with the changes. However, to say that he betrayed us, like he owed us something, is little bit out there.
    Not to mention the only people who's opinion really matters are those paying for his manga. Which the majority of us are not doing, lol. If you're gonna make demands, maybe pay him for his work first.

    Though I understand how shafagh feels. You should've seen me once I beat Mass Effect 3.

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  9. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    man we may be reading the manga for free but a lot of us are paying for the games and such. theres a damn naruto storm out every month ive paid as much as i would in manga as i have in worthless games that keep piling up cause a new better one with 5 more characters and 11 more pixels comes out 6 months later...fml

  10. #22
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Though I understand how shafagh feels. You should've seen me once I beat Mass Effect 3.
    Your reaction was probably the same reaction at least a good 90% of us had.
    I HATE Mass Effect's ending

    On topic, imo the best thing would've been if Sasuke, and not Naruto, was the Child of prophecy:
    that way Naruto could've continued to defy fate by going against the fated saviour of the Narutoverse, all the while tying Sasuke to the plot even further and hyping the final confrontation between those two.
    We all know Sasuke has the potential to both save or destroy the world, and maybe it could've been used for, say, a final redention and the fulfilling of the prophecy, in a way both Sasuke and Naruto themselves crafted.

    That way Part 1 would still make sense, even if Naruto's parents are famous

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  12. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    naruto is essentially the same character from part I and he has fault hard to bring his words into action, thats why kurama decided to help him out. Regardless of the situation Naruto is such an idiot that he defies the logical and fights for what he has said. There is something about his nature that although it is foolish, dumb, illogical, or whatever that is compelling and encouraging. And yes Naruto is an idiot, he always will be IMO and I rather him stay that way because he wouldnt be"naruto" anymore. So nah i dont feel betrayed, i dont even pay to read this so what do i have to complain about its freakin free! If i paid for something and it was lackluster then id feel cheated


  13. #24
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    he didn't write it for himself ... he writing it for readers .... with your logic , he can turn Naruto in main antagonist , and make Madara to main protagonist .... are you accept it !? no

    well , maybe I didn't use prefect words but at least he cheated us , or changed it illegally .....
    Come on guy, really? He's writing for readership yes, however, the elements and plot of the story he can do with what he wishes. There are also his editors to consider. However it's the readers choice whether or not they want to follow the story. The reader's themselves are reading the story he's not forcing them to. It's like the fans of mass effect getting all up in arms over the third ones ending, Demanding that bioware change it. Bioware doesn't owe them crap. They followed the story and just because they don't like the ending they want to demand that bioware change it? I'm sorry, no. That's just not how the world works. It makes even less sense in this situation because while those guys at least paid for bioware's games most of us aren't even paying for Kishimoto's stuff.

    He could very well do those things, granted it wouldn't bode well for his readership but that doesn't mean that he couldn't do it. I'm not going to even get into the "changed legally" statement. Like I said, misled is probably the word you want to use.

  14. #25
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone
    man we may be reading the manga for free but a lot of us are paying for the games and such. theres a damn naruto storm out every month ive paid as much as i would in manga as i have in worthless games that keep piling up cause a new better one with 5 more characters and 11 more pixels comes out 6 months later...fml
    You can blame that on cyberconnect though. Not Kishimoto. They wanna make as much money on the series as possible so they have to milk it like crazy.

    ---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
    The reader's themselves are reading the story he's not forcing them to. It's like the fans of mass effect getting all up in arms over the third ones ending, Demanding that bioware change it. Bioware doesn't owe them crap. They followed the story and just because they don't like the ending they want to demand that bioware change it? I'm sorry, no. That's just not how the world works. It makes even less sense in this situation because while those guys at least paid for bioware's games most of us aren't even paying for Kishimoto's stuff.
    I can't speak for everyone that was pissed about ME3's ending, but my argument wasn't "I payed for this game so you owe me money back because I expected closure, not manure." It was "You made alot of promises that you renegged on, and you guys suck." They can keep their 60 bucks, because the journey was so good it outweighed the shitty ending and they earned that money thanks to all their hard work. But I sure as hell wasn't gonna remain silent about my anger. 5 years of support for a game and my payoff was pallette swap endings, reused footage, and no knowledge as to how the rest of the characters' lives are changed by my choices... lame.

    So once again I get shafagh's annoyance because he's likely put as much time into reading the manga as we all have, and any time you've put so much time into something it becomes easier to be angered by certain things. That said Kishi never really made any promises that he's failed on delivering so... that's it.

  15. #26
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I can't speak for everyone that was pissed about ME3's ending, but my argument wasn't "I payed for this game so you owe me money back because I expected closure, not manure." It was "You made alot of promises that you renegged on, and you guys suck." They can keep their 60 bucks, because the journey was so good it outweighed the shitty ending and they earned that money thanks to all their hard work. But I sure as hell wasn't gonna remain silent about my anger. 5 years of support for a game and my payoff was pallette swap endings, reused footage, and no knowledge as to how the rest of the characters' lives are changed by my choices... lame.

    So once again I get shafagh's annoyance because he's likely put as much time into reading the manga as we all have, and any time you've put so much time into something it becomes easier to be angered by certain things. That said Kishi never really made any promises that he's failed on delivering so... that's it.
    I agree with you, my issue with the Mass effect fiasco was that people were demanding things from bioware. I never said people should keep silent with their displeasure. However, it shouldn't go so far that you feel like you can demand a change from the company whose story you've been following of your own free will. Like you're entitled to something. I only brought up the money comparison to highlight the point you brought up earlier. If you want to talk about games where promises were not kept, just look at the Fable franchise. After one, the franchise practically went to crap. Peter Montague kept spewing crap that his developers couldn't keep up with, but I digress. Just to clarify, this is not directed at you.

    We all understand what it's like to put time and effort into reading something, and care about it so much that some changes just don't mesh well with us. And just like I do practically every day on this forum, I'll voice my displeasure about it. However, I'm not going to go so far as the call it betrayal, like Kishimoto owes me something for reading his work.
    Last edited by KiSwordsman; January 07, 2013 at 03:55 PM.

  16. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Oh. Well okay then. I guess it's just a mistake of wording on his behalf then. Though admittedly, Naruto's story was never exclusively meant to be about defying destiny. It was just an excuse people used to place him above Sasuke in a hard working/legit powerups standpoint. "Naruto's not a genius so the fact that he can fight Sasuke on equal (lmao) footing is testament to how good he really is!" He had one fight that questioned Fate vs. Determination, so that was never the manga's original focus. So his origin changing doesn't really change the manga either.

  17. #28
    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    well ....

    When I reading manga , Naruto was a simple orphan ( except QB ) whose want to become greatest ninja in his village and change his destiny and over come it by hard working .....

    but now it become like :

    son of 4th hokage !
    member of one of strongest clan ( Uzumaki )
    child of prophecy !
    Savior !
    and etc ....

    and above all of its , everything solving for him magically ....
    .............

    I mean I feel betrayed by writer .... I begun to read a manga that main character had to overcome destiny but now he is in complete opposite side !!

    damn , I really can't tell my real words ..... well , lets talk about ....
    Since chapter 1, nothing has changed about Naruto's background. He was still an underdog who had to overcome incredible adversity in order to gain the respect of the village. He's still an orphan, despised for being the jinchuuriki of the Kyuubi. He still earned Konoha's respect the hard way; by deed, hard work, perseverance, and a winning personality. He never used his lineage to get ahead, his reputation is not based on his fathers name, there is no indication Naruto's parentage is known by anyone outside of Tsunade's inner circle.

    The fact of the matter is that we (the audience) knew from the start that Minato defeated the Kyuubi, sealed it away, but died in the process. Why Naruto then? Minato did not simply grab the closest baby and cram the kyuubi into their soul. From the beginning we knew there was something special about Naruto, only we did not know what. Kishi wisely chose the simplest explanation possible: Minato, in an emergency, sealed the Kyuubi in his own child. Simple, easy, no plot holes.

    It should have been obvious from the very start, simply by reading the synopsis, that Naruto would someday gain control of the Kyuubi. This is a shounen manga, it would be heretical for the hero to have a massive power source residing within their own body, but never use it. More importantly, that would ignore all of the intended symbolism. The Kyuubi is one of the most original aspects of Naruto, and often copied by other manga. Ichigo's inner hollow comes to mind. The Kyuubi is a metaphor for being a teenager, representing all of the aimless energy, passion, confusion, and angst of puberty. At some point that pubescent energy must be harnessed or it will destroy the host. Naruto learning the Kyuubi's real name, and gaining control of his power, symbolized Naruto becoming an adult. He took his teenage passion, and channeled it into more grown up pursuits. Sasuke is meant as the counterpoint to Naruto, someone who could not overcome adversity, never outgrew adolescence, and channeled his energy into hatred.

    "Child of Prophecy" is an adventure story trope. The hero saves the days and makes the world a better place. Not sure why this is a problem. Naruto is the hero, heroes do heroic things. Many are prophesied beforehand. That shouldn't take anything away from Naruto.

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    he didn't write it for himself ... he writing it for readers .... with your logic , he can turn Naruto in main antagonist , and make Madara to main protagonist .... are you accept it !? no
    Artists are inherently selfish people. The artist has to assume that an audience actually cares what they have to say. They assume people are looking. All art is self expression, even bad art. The artist has no obligation to please the audience, nor does the audience have any obligation to pay attention to what the artists has to say. Kishi is writing Naruto because he has something to say (and wants to make money saying it). If you don't like what he has to say, you are under no obligation to read. If enough people feel the same, Naruto's popularity will decline. An artist should never pander to their audience though. They should never assume that they know what their audience wants to hear. They can only assume what they believed from the start: that someone is interested in the story they have to tell, the way they want to tell it. It is absolutely wrong to ever believe the artist owes you anything. They don't. Enjoy the story they have to tell, or don't. It's always best to accept things for what they are, rather than what you want them to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Not to mention the only people who's opinion really matters are those paying for his manga. Which the majority of us are not doing, lol. If you're gonna make demands, maybe pay him for his work first.

    Though I understand how shafagh feels. You should've seen me once I beat Mass Effect 3.
    I can't agree with that. Our opinion matters as much anyone's. We are still readers, and have every right to express how we feel. Only we have fewer tools with which to express our opinion. Japanese readers can stop buying the book, and stop voting in the TOC, when they are frustrated. We can't really effect the economics of Naruto. But data is meant to be free. Anything that can be turned into data will be free. This is a reality of the new economics, and it will never change. Pandora's box has been opened, it can never be shut again. It is the publisher's problem now, they need to update their business model to account for the internet. Adapt or die. Capitalism is a bitch.

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  19. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    I do understand your logic, but from a slightly different angle. While this was shonen and was destined to turn to a pile of human refuse sooner or later, the way Kishimoto handled the whole 'child of destiny' 'secret power within' crap is a barrel full of laughs and never be taken seriously.


    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Not to mention the only people who's opinion really matters are those paying for his manga. Which the majority of us are not doing, lol. If you're gonna make demands, maybe pay him for his work first.

    Though I understand how shafagh feels. You should've seen me once I beat Mass Effect 3.
    Why is this ME so popular? I guess I just loathe WRPGs.

  20. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    If he regained his own will at the final moment, he should have stayed alive. Killing himself didn't make the things any better. He could have stopped Tobi for good. He could have brought the peace himself with Naruto.




    No, he won't. Naruto will never be a cool character. It's not about skill. Killer Bee is an extremely skillful Shinobi, but he acts the way Naruto does.

    ---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------

    Let me tell you another disappointment.
    That pathetic Hinata surviving and Neji dying. The girl was supposed to have changed her attitude against her match with Neji (have been just reading the Chuunin Exams arc again), and yet, she is still the same weakling who is nothing more than her own unvoiced resolve.
    I didn't really find all this Hinata x Naruto thing interesting, but now, I'm praying for it, so that Hinata can marry Naruto, have numerous children and retire as a Shinobi to look after them. Che.
    Sacrificing your life in exchanged for bringing back a thousand/s of ninja is pretty honorable for me. And we don't have any choice, kishi decided to kill nagato for naruto's sake. He betrayed jiraiya and yahiko, he failed their expectation and their wills and above all, he was ashamed on what he did. And I doubt he could have stopped tobi's plan. After all, both nagato and itachi are being used by tobi.

    So for being cool, it's not about skills but on how he acts, well, fair enough. Naruto isn't really that type of ninja. He's unpredictable and a stupid one. But maybe, he'll gonna change his personality/attitude or on how he should act when he's matured or when he get married to hinata.

    Maybe that's hinata's destiny. She isn't destined to become the hyuga's next leader but rather she's destined to become a plain and simple housewife of hokage.

    And neji sacrificed his life for naruto and hinata's sake.and he did it on his own free will. He's happy about it, he was freed from the hyuga's curse. So we should let him rest in peace.

    Kishi decided to kill neji for hinata to held naruto's hand. Yeah, it's kinda disappointing. Kishi wasted neji's character just for the stupid holding hands. But it's OK for me though, at least naruto would not alone in his home anymore.

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