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View Poll Results: Do you think kishi cheated you !?

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Thread: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

  1. #61
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member syx's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    then what's the point for staying in the akatsuki if itachi can defeat obito?.
    Because Konohagakure-Arena-logic doesn't apply in a manga fight. That's where most people fail, when talking about Itachi>Obito or Itachi<Obito.

    Obito can teleport away whenever he wants and this is what makes it so difficult to actually defeat him. Not to mention that he could and would throw the whole Akatsuki (hell, Pain would be enough) at Itachi, if he actively tried to find and kill Obito. Itachi didn't have the tools to track down Obito and fight him in a fair fight one on one, that's something most people forget and this has nothing to do with powerlevels.

    Obito on the other hand stated he would be dead, if Itachi had known about his secret and Itachi's abilities proved that he is a real threat to almost anyone. One mistake on Obito's side and he gets blitzed by the Sword of Totsuka and it's debatable if Obito can use Izanagi while pierced by this sword. We have two examples in Orochimaru (Sannin) and Nagato (Rinnegan-User), who were unable to do anything after being hit.

    Izanagi? The moment Obito uses Izanagi and fails to kill Itachi in his first attempt, he will be in deep shit. Because all Itachi has to do is to activate Izanami with one eye. Then he has to fulfill the two "conditions". Funny thing is that it's highly possible that Itachi can also use Izanagi. Which means, Itachi has to fulfill one "condition" and can take a fatal blow from Obito in order to fulfill the second "condition", use Izanagi and right after that cast Izanami.

    Outcome of this scenario? Itachi blind in both eyes and Obito dead.

    We have two good examples about how big of a threat/hindrance Itachi was for Obito. The first one Obito himself believing he would be dead, if he had known about his secret(s) and even when talking in private with Zetsu, Obito states that with Itachi's death, nothing stands in his way now.

    If taking down Itachi was an easy task, you can be sure that Obito would have done it already. You believe someone like Obito really cares about deals?
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  3. #62
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    If you ask me Kishi did not know what he is going to end up needing Izanami...

    Anyway we don't know what it was. Could be anything. No indication it was Izanagi, we just asumed it was. Perhaps it was a Zetsu clone that was chating with Sasuke. We all know how those can replicate the original.

    Ok it was not Izanami. Over here his mask does not disapear:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/5

    if it was a Izanami "resurection" that the mask would disapear and would pop on his face back. Also if it was activated after the mask was on the ground Tobi would end up having some horible damage but he was at 100%(costume and all). Its a mistery what he did there.

    Anyway i go with Tobi on this:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/397/9

    It was an atempt to take him down. Of coruse who knows, can't say for sure. In the page i linked Tobi even states "or perhaps to keep me away".
    All I'm saying is someone as perceptive as Itachi would have kept the idea that this wasn't going to be enough to take down that masked man somewhere in his mind.
    And yes, it's difficult to call either way, since even Tobi wasn't sure which was the truth.

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    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    I don't know how that's related to the topic, but Obito made it pretty clear that he was, IN FACT, scared of Itachi. Itachi was a Genius in his own fucking league and since he pretty much never showed his true powers to the max, I'm just gonna agree with whoever said it, that Itachi could've taken Obito out if he wanted too. His intellect and strategic powers would probably defeat even that annoying Kamui.

  5. #64
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    I guess there are multiple angles to look at this.

    The first issue is the Japanese definition of talent. At large their take on talent is something still foreign to me. So far it seems like for them being talented means that you have to be able to intuitively learn and do stuff with virtually no effort to the utmost extreme. While in the world there certainly are people who learn things more easily and even geniuses who are able to learn stuff well beyond their years even that is not quite the same as not having to work for stuff. In real life learning is a matter of putting time and repetition along with a combination of aptitudes and attitudes towards the task in question. Being talented or a genius does not mean you don't have to work for stuff, it means that you have the aptitudes to develop well in a particular or set of fields. In this particular manga naruto was has been repeatedly stated to be talentless and outright stupid simply because he has to work for stuff which is an insult to every normal person in the world and every talented person ever. Is working hard a bad thing? Are we really supposed to believe "talented" people really have it that easy? Even in this manga sasuke went off to train his ass off for 2 years with orochimaru. Its basically a jab at people who have to work hard and a direct downplay of the hard work done by people who have talent and spend thousands upon thousands of hours working a particular field.

    That said, we have to consider the implications of naruto being in fact talentless and outright stupid. Being talentless has the implication that naruto for whatever number of reasons simply does not have the aptitudes and attitudes along with the innate skills required for him to be able to properly learn a particular tast. He is not even a normal person, who in general would be able to master a task through repetition. Naruto was said to be unable to learn, utterly inadequate in every regard to the tasks he had at hand, in this particular case being a ninja. If naruto was ever something of that sort, what would be the actual possibilities of him actually succeeding? In any rational world naruto should simply not have wasted his time being a shinobi. Even if he was not as bad as the manga went out of its way to show, even if naruto was just painfully average, does it make sense for him to focus solely on being a ninja instead of something in which he actually has aptitudes for and his innate actual stupidity does not hinder him?

    Seeing that the first thing we should have considered was that naruto from the start was not a talentless stupid person. If he truly was such a thing then no amount of hard work was ever going to ever make a difference. The manga started with the premise that naruto wanted to be the hokage, the leader of a military nation which exists within a complex geopolitical context constantly on the verge of war with its neighboring nations. There is no way that it makes sense naruto would ever become the hokage if he innately never had in some form characteristics which in some way would in the long run allow him to be a viable hokage candidate. Granted that in the real world we see people who have no business leading anything however they at least had characteristics which had some appeal to someone the most basic of which (albeit in some cases the only one) being able to inspire people through speach. The very premise of the manga was wrong in the sense that naruto started with literally not a single talent or aptitude which would ever allow him to become someone who the nation would want as a leader.

    Now, since the premise of the manga was in itself incoherent (in very mild terms) and perhaps even outright moronic along with demeaning to normal people working hard and the thousands of hours actual geniuses put into their work naturally it would have to deviate in time from what was originally presented. In a fair world naruto would at most have turned out to simply not be talentless and outright stupid but rather it would have made a point of saying naruto was pretty much normal all along and hard work and thousands of man hours dedicated to a task would allow him to develop certain skills, perhaps even the skills which in the long run would make him someone who the village might want as a leader. In a fair world it would have turned out the reason naruto was not able to develop was because literally everyone in the village tried to pull him down rather than him being innately stupid and talentless.

    In turn what we got was the most extreme of the premise of the manga. Naruto was never talentless and stupid, he was magic. At this point the manga in some form became more incoherent than its initial premise and we are somehow supposed to believe naruto is still talentless, stupid and devoid of any sort of aptitude and attitude towards being a ninja but at the same time he has developed into the most powerful and perfect ninja in the world through hard work while also being the son of the hokage, descendant of a clan every bit as prestigious as the uchiha and of the sage of the six paths who was basically a demigod. The single most stupid example of this is when naruto learned the rasengan. The rasengan is an A class ninjutsu. A class ninjutsu implies that it is a ninjutsu at a difficulty level which can usually only be handled by jonnin, the most elite shinobi out there who generally go to B, A or S class missions where they have to do world class stuff. Yet, what was the reaction the manga had when naruto mastered said A class ninjutsu?

    A.- Holy shit, naruto mastered at age 12 a technique which would have been hard or perhaps even outright impossible for even fully grown elite shinobi! He was never talentless and stupid, he was every bit as much of a genius as sasuke or neji all along but failed at simple tasks because not a single person every around him ever tried to help him and even went as far as hindering him!

    B.- Holy shit, naruto mastered at age 12 a technique which would have been hard or perhaps even outright impossible for even fully grown elite shinobi! You see how hard work is magic? He is every bit as talentless and stupid as he had ever been and he is able to pull this sort of thing! You see? Useless people with no talent or aptitudes can somehow overcome their inherent lack of talent and intelligence by working hard and somehow remaining talentless and stupid!

    Just look at every training naruto has ever had. no one thought naruto was a genius for being able to learn the rasengan. No one ever made a mention of naruto getting above average chunnin strength and age 15 during his jiraiya training. Naruto learned wind type ninjutsu in a day and developed the rasenshuriken, a jutsu at which everyone had failed at developing, and no one made a reference to naruto being a genius. Naruto trolled every notion of hard work and time by learning in stupidly short amounts of time stuff which should be hard to learn at all and even then no one has ever made a reference to naruto being the genius he is. Somehow naruto has done everything we have seen and he somehow is still as stupid and talentless as he has ever been.

    Perhaps the issue at hand is not quite that kishi betrayed us, the issue at hand is that the premise of the manga was in itself impossible to begin with. Its simply not possible for naruto to be innately as stupid, talentless and inadequate as the manga has made him out to be and for him to succeed at all, that is by no means how real life works. While this is a manga, this is not something which could ever make sense to us simple people living in real life. In real life if there is a particular task at which you are at large innately incompetent and don't have any sort of attitude, aptitude or talent towards it then you simply drop that and focus on something for which you have aptitudes and attitudes for. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time doing something which you are not quite good at while at the same time you are not doing something which you could potentially be at least adequate at.

    In the end for everything naruto has achieved there is simply no way he could ever exist in the way the manga initially presented him. Its simply not possible for naruto to learn 2 A class ninjutsu and trick a jonnin at age 12, or develop impossible ninjutsu at age 15-16 or be a better sage than jiraiya at age 16 and still be talentless. If anything a lineage and bloodline which enabled him to easily learn and develop would be the bare minimum for naruto to do half the things he did even if he had talent to begin with. Naruto doing all the stuff he did is perfectly consistent with the fact that his father was the insanely talented and perfect late hokage, his mother was born special with an unique chakra, his entire clan on his mothers side was born special and the fact that he descended from the godlike rikudo.

    To put this whole nonsense in context, what would anyone say of a 12th year old who masters calculus III and other forms of advanced math? Would people say he is a genius or would they say he is stupid but got there through hard work?

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  7. #65
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    I don't know how that's related to the topic, but Obito made it pretty clear that he was, IN FACT, scared of Itachi. Itachi was a Genius in his own fucking league and since he pretty much never showed his true powers to the max, I'm just gonna agree with whoever said it, that Itachi could've taken Obito out if he wanted too. His intellect and strategic powers would probably defeat even that annoying Kamui.
    I think that Obito was scared of Itachi not because of his powers ( well, those too ), but because of his unbelievable insight, and that's also why Kabuto was incredibly cautious about Itachi, despite Sasuke being stronger.

  8. #66
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    Because Konohagakure-Arena-logic doesn't apply in a manga fight. That's where most people fail, when talking about Itachi>Obito or Itachi<Obito.

    Obito can teleport away whenever he wants and this is what makes it so difficult to actually defeat him. Not to mention that he could and would throw the whole Akatsuki (hell, Pain would be enough) at Itachi, if he actively tried to find and kill Obito. Itachi didn't have the tools to track down Obito and fight him in a fair fight one on one, that's something most people forget and this has nothing to do with powerlevels.

    Obito on the other hand stated he would be dead, if Itachi had known about his secret and Itachi's abilities proved that he is a real threat to almost anyone. One mistake on Obito's side and he gets blitzed by the Sword of Totsuka and it's debatable if Obito can use Izanagi while pierced by this sword. We have two examples in Orochimaru (Sannin) and Nagato (Rinnegan-User), who were unable to do anything after being hit.

    Izanagi? The moment Obito uses Izanagi and fails to kill Itachi in his first attempt, he will be in deep shit. Because all Itachi has to do is to activate Izanami with one eye. Then he has to fulfill the two "conditions". Funny thing is that it's highly possible that Itachi can also use Izanagi. Which means, Itachi has to fulfill one "condition" and can take a fatal blow from Obito in order to fulfill the second "condition", use Izanagi and right after that cast Izanami.

    Outcome of this scenario? Itachi blind in both eyes and Obito dead.

    We have two good examples about how big of a threat/hindrance Itachi was for Obito. The first one Obito himself believing he would be dead, if he had known about his secret(s) and even when talking in private with Zetsu, Obito states that with Itachi's death, nothing stands in his way now.

    If taking down Itachi was an easy task, you can be sure that Obito would have done it already. You believe someone like Obito really cares about deals?
    Maybe not maybe yes.

    But I think itachi is a big threat/hindrance for obito's plan and not to obito himself. And it doesn't matter if obito almost got killed by itachi's fail-safe method, but the point remain that it failed. And when obito stated that nothing can stand on his way now, it's all about the konoha as off limit. And look at your scan, obito even belittle itachi's fail-safe method as a little extra protection. As in little.

    Yeah, until obito get ahold of the nine bijuus. He cares for his deal with itachi. Well, maybe obito would annihilate the entire akatsuki when their IT plan start. Nagato, itachi and the entire akatsuki doesn't have any place to his plan. It's just all about him and madara.

    And the way itachi defined obito, it seems that for him, obito is unbeatable. Well, he thought all along that obito is madara.

    For me, obito is strong enough to manipulate and used the both of them. And he got the tools to finish them when the time is come. That's obito's plan all along.

  9. #67
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    Because Konohagakure-Arena-logic doesn't apply in a manga fight. That's where most people fail, when talking about Itachi>Obito or Itachi<Obito.

    Obito can teleport away whenever he wants and this is what makes it so difficult to actually defeat him. Not to mention that he could and would throw the whole Akatsuki (hell, Pain would be enough) at Itachi, if he actively tried to find and kill Obito. Itachi didn't have the tools to track down Obito and fight him in a fair fight one on one, that's something most people forget and this has nothing to do with powerlevels.

    Obito on the other hand stated he would be dead, if Itachi had known about his secret and Itachi's abilities proved that he is a real threat to almost anyone. One mistake on Obito's side and he gets blitzed by the Sword of Totsuka and it's debatable if Obito can use Izanagi while pierced by this sword. We have two examples in Orochimaru (Sannin) and Nagato (Rinnegan-User), who were unable to do anything after being hit.

    Izanagi? The moment Obito uses Izanagi and fails to kill Itachi in his first attempt, he will be in deep shit. Because all Itachi has to do is to activate Izanami with one eye. Then he has to fulfill the two "conditions". Funny thing is that it's highly possible that Itachi can also use Izanagi. Which means, Itachi has to fulfill one "condition" and can take a fatal blow from Obito in order to fulfill the second "condition", use Izanagi and right after that cast Izanami.

    Outcome of this scenario? Itachi blind in both eyes and Obito dead.

    We have two good examples about how big of a threat/hindrance Itachi was for Obito. The first one Obito himself believing he would be dead, if he had known about his secret(s) and even when talking in private with Zetsu, Obito states that with Itachi's death, nothing stands in his way now.

    If taking down Itachi was an easy task, you can be sure that Obito would have done it already. You believe someone like Obito really cares about deals?
    Bolded part. The moment he got hit Nagato got his mind pack. At that point even asuming he could do something he would not do it. He would most defenetly allow himself to be sealed then fight back and end up AGAIN in Kabuto's power the moment he would remove the sword. Now i am not stating he can do something but its not clear if he can or can't.
    Last edited by xXan; January 09, 2013 at 02:43 AM.

  10. #68
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Bolded part. The moment he got hit Nagato got his mind pack. At that point even asuming he could do something he would not do it. He would most defenetly allow himself to be sealed then fight back and end up AGAIN in Kabuto's power the moment he would remove the sword. Now i am not stating he can do something but its not clear if he can or can't.
    Yes, it's not clarified. Even Orochimaru realized it after the sealing process began, so, there was no chance to withstand it, even if it was possible.

  11. #69
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    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    I think that Obito was scared of Itachi not because of his powers ( well, those too ), but because of his unbelievable insight, and that's also why Kabuto was incredibly cautious about Itachi, despite Sasuke being stronger.
    Well, now's that time when we can agree that power isn't the only thing that can bring a victory in a battle, right? Even though Itachi was more than capable in terms of power. I'd say Obito and Kabuto were scared of him in an overall sense, because he was an amazing shinobi.

  12. #70
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member syx's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    But I think itachi is a big threat/hindrance for obito's plan and not to obito himself.
    I really don't get the difference, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    And it doesn't matter if obito almost got killed by itachi's fail-safe method, but the point remain that it failed. And when obito stated that nothing can stand on his way now, it's all about the konoha as off limit. And look at your scan, obito even belittle itachi's fail-safe method as a little extra protection. As in little.
    The Amaterasu-trap has nothing to do with the subject, why did you bring that up? You asked Hakuteiken why Itachi didn't kill Obito based on Itachi>Obito. I replied that Itachi didn't have the luxury to fight Obito in a straight up one on one fight. I don't see how the Amaterasu-trap fits here, it has no relevance to the subject.

    Konoha was off-limits, because of the threat Itachi posed. Obito says: "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now". Itachi was the only one who stood in Obito's way, there is no other interpretation for this sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Yeah, until obito get ahold of the nine bijuus. He cares for his deal with itachi. Well, maybe obito would annihilate the entire akatsuki when their IT plan start. Nagato, itachi and the entire akatsuki doesn't have any place to his plan. It's just all about him and madara.

    For me, obito is strong enough to manipulate and used the both of them. And he got the tools to finish them when the time is come. That's obito's plan all along.
    Yes, Obito cared for his deal, because he didn't want to mess with Itachi. That's why. If Obito could easily get rid of Itachi, you can be sure that he would have killed him. What did Itachi do for Obito/Akatsuki what other Nukenins couldn't do? If you look back at Itachi's actions as an Akatsuki member, you would realize that he was substitutable.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Bolded part. The moment he got hit Nagato got his mind pack. At that point even asuming he could do something he would not do it. He would most defenetly allow himself to be sealed then fight back and end up AGAIN in Kabuto's power the moment he would remove the sword. Now i am not stating he can do something but its not clear if he can or can't.
    So true, you got a point there. But we shouldn't forget that Orochimaru was able to use chakra, while he was connected with Shiki Fujin. That was not the case when he was pierced by the Sword of Totsuka. I know that this has nothing to do with Nagato, but it seems that the Sword of Totsuka is a little bit harder to "handle", so I think that chances are small for anyone to counter/break the sealing process of the Totsuka Sword.
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  13. #71
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    kishi cheated me cause filler naruto is cooler than canon one -.- lol

    but yeah man naruto is way to stupid to be a main character. honestly ive never seen a main character with such little development of skills, personality and above all motivation. his personality, mindset and even his skills have barely changed since part one, sure he's gotten stronger but its easy to become a god level nin with random power ups thrown in your direction and suddenly becoming ninja jesus even though your leadership skills and smarts are abysmal.

    i feel cheated because theres nothing new, we have the same main character from part 1 with the same story and the same goal. marry sasuke, that first kiss wasnt enough apparently ;p lmao but in all seriousness naruto hasnt really made any progress.

    hes still stupid and needs someone to guide him in almost every fight
    no originality in moves, easily counter-able cause he only has one move and like 20 variations -.-
    lack of proper motivation
    lack of training. i know youre all gonna bash like ''omg sage mode, kyuubi mode QQ'' but guess what, that aint proper training. he simply learns how to do what he needs and rushes off into a new battle without fully mastering his new found skills. naruto is always go, he never stops and trains randomly to make sure his skills are on point.

    he just goes in, new power up! clone distraction, new rasengan. woooh! love the originality in all his fights.

    it really bothers me cause naruto is compared to goku but they are NOTHING alike. goku was always training, his battle sense was flawless and he wasnt afraid to takes risks and knew when he had to work to get results. whenever goku showed up you knew shit was about to go down and he barely won his fights. he's escape most of them by the skin of his teeth and you knew someone was gonna get murked in the gaint battle. goku's motivation was to save everyone and everything no matter what the cost

    On the other hand we have naruto. they are similar but couldnt be more different.

    it bothers me cause naruto may be stupid but that doesnt mean he cant learn how to fight properly or learn a new move.

    i feel cheated solely on the fact that naruto isnt a good main character, i feel like he is still in part 1 and isnt ready emotionally, mentally or even physically( yes, what good is all these power ups if you only have one move and cant use them to their full extent?).

    hes needs to learn and grow in almost every aspect cause right now him being the savior, and leading this army is ridiculous. he has no skills.

    i mean after 2 years of training the guy came back with a bigger rasengan. after training and mastering wind chakra he got a new rasengan. after learning sage mode he can now throw the rasengan, making it a destructo disk. after learning bijuu mode he gets a bijuu rasengan... boring af.

    you cant blame anyone but kishi for this he didnt plan properly and rushed many things and covered up a whole bunch of plot holes with MOTHERF*CKIN HASHIRAMA CELLS! FOR LIKE EVERYTHING!! .

    the hashirama cells dont even make sense, yamato had his dna altered to be the exact same as hashirama so shouldnt that make him the strongest nin in the series right now? madara and obito have been using his cells to upgrade thier own powers making them gangstas and madara said hashirama is the only one who can stop him. so with that being said if hashirama was the strongest nin and his cells make you into an insta badass shouldnt yamato be the chosen one? i mean he does have the exact dna of the ''strongest nin'' right? shouldnt he be leading this army? of course not, cause hashirama cells only got this super power boost to help madara and obito cheat and not find legit ways to use thier own strength and justify all theyre doing

    . he shouldve just called the manga sasuke, do you think its too late to change the name? the side characters should never outshine the main ones, they should have their own level of cool not being better than the main at everything.

    goku and vegeta, both the shit
    gon and killua
    aladdin and alilibaba
    silver crow and cyan pile
    every damn gundam pilot that wasnt the main character

    do you see where im going with this? the main character and side character should never outshining each other, they need to stay decently balanced, each one of them is just as cool as the main. sasuke is the shit, i would pick sasuke first in dodgeball any day, id pick naruto 5 or 6 solely on the fact that hes another body
    Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 11, 2013 at 03:24 AM.

  14. #72
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    I really don't get the difference, sorry.


    The Amaterasu-trap has nothing to do with the subject, why did you bring that up? You asked Hakuteiken why Itachi didn't kill Obito based on Itachi>Obito. I replied that Itachi didn't have the luxury to fight Obito in a straight up one on one fight. I don't see how the Amaterasu-trap fits here, it has no relevance to the subject.

    Konoha was off-limits, because of the threat Itachi posed. Obito says: "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now". Itachi was the only one who stood in Obito's way, there is no other interpretation for this sentence.


    Yes, Obito cared for his deal, because he didn't want to mess with Itachi. That's why. If Obito could easily get rid of Itachi, you can be sure that he would have killed him. What did Itachi do for Obito/Akatsuki what other Nukenins couldn't do? If you look back at Itachi's actions as an Akatsuki member, you would realize that he was substitutable.


    So true, you got a point there. But we shouldn't forget that Orochimaru was able to use chakra, while he was connected with Shiki Fujin. That was not the case when he was pierced by the Sword of Totsuka. I know that this has nothing to do with Nagato, but it seems that the Sword of Totsuka is a little bit harder to "handle", so I think that chances are small for anyone to counter/break the sealing process of the Totsuka Sword.
    1. Itachi has the tools to stop or pose a threat to obito's plan. Like killing or stopping the other members of akatsuki. While he never pose a threat to obito at all. Obito's kamui is just that hax that even itachi can't do anything about it.

    2. Well, as the matter of fact the amaterasu trap is one of your proof. That's why I bring that up. Your so called proof ''obito himself believed that he would be dead stuff'' is all about that trap. You came to believe that itachi possess a threat to obito just because of that. That's why I'm disagreeing. Because that trap was being belittle by obito himself and it just failed.

    Itachi was the only one who stood in obito's way, but it's only in harming the konoha. Nothing more nothing less.

    3. Yeah, obito could easily get rid of itachi if he wants to. But obito needs itachi because he had a plans specifically for him. Just like obito needs sasuke that badly as itachi or nagato's replacement.

  15. #73
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Itachi was the only one who stood in obito's way, but it's only in harming the konoha. Nothing more nothing less.

    3. Yeah, obito could easily get rid of itachi if he wants to. But obito needs itachi because he had a plans specifically for him. Just like obito needs sasuke that badly as itachi or nagato's replacement.
    How was Itachi able to stand in Obito's way to keep him from harming Konoha and nothing more? It's contradicting. He can either oppose him at all the paths he could take or cannot at any.

    And I don't think Obito needed Sasuke that badly. He left Sasuke to himself and got out to move on with his own plans. Sasuke wasn't a replacement, neither seemingly had a great place in Obito's plans.

  16. #74
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    1. Itachi has the tools to stop or pose a threat to obito's plan. Like killing or stopping the other members of akatsuki. While he never pose a threat to obito at all. Obito's kamui is just that hax that even itachi can't do anything about it.

    2. Well, as the matter of fact the amaterasu trap is one of your proof. That's why I bring that up. Your so called proof ''obito himself believed that he would be dead stuff'' is all about that trap. You came to believe that itachi possess a threat to obito just because of that. That's why I'm disagreeing. Because that trap was being belittle by obito himself and it just failed.

    Itachi was the only one who stood in obito's way, but it's only in harming the konoha. Nothing more nothing less.

    3. Yeah, obito could easily get rid of itachi if he wants to. But obito needs itachi because he had a plans specifically for him. Just like obito needs sasuke that badly as itachi or nagato's replacement.
    Obito himself said Itachi can kill him ! Why do you still argue about that ?

  17. #75
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    How was Itachi able to stand in Obito's way to keep him from harming Konoha and nothing more? It's contradicting. He can either oppose him at all the paths he could take or cannot at any.

    And I don't think Obito needed Sasuke that badly. He left Sasuke to himself and got out to move on with his own plans. Sasuke wasn't a replacement, neither seemingly had a great place in Obito's plans.
    Nah. Obito did really want sasuke that much. They way he told zetsu that he won sasuke over to his side is an indication that he need sasuke that much for his future plan.

    Obito and itachi had a deal right? And one of itachi's deal is that the konoha should be off limit to obito. So the ''nothing would stand on my way'' of obito is just all bout harming the konoha. And it's not that itachi did really stood in obito's way/plan. It's all about attacking/harming the konoha. As you know, obito is dying to destroy the konoha. That's their deal. So it's itachi's deal who stopped obito to attack the konoha, it's itachi who stood in obito's way to attack the konoha.

    ---------- Post added at 05:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Obito himself said Itachi can kill him ! Why do you still argue about that ?
    Huh?

    It's not itachi, it's itachi's amaterasu trap who almost killed obito. Almost in a sense that its failed.

    It was itachi's last ditch effort who almost killed obito and not itachi himself. Yeah, from the word last, as in last. It's like itachi's trap almost killed obito so it means that itachi can kill him. What the hell is that logic? That's nonsense.

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