Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Celebrate MH's birthday and the RETURN OF MANGA!! Start downloading, translating and scanlating manga HERE - legally!
Like us on Facebook, Follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year of MH and check out our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga: (4/14/14 - 4/20/14).
Site News: Check out our new sections: Nisekoi and Kingdom
Events: Nominate and vote for the winners in the Seinen Awards!
Translations: Gintama 490 by kewl0210

View Poll Results: Do you think kishi cheated you !?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    22 39.29%
  • No

    34 60.71%
New Reply
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 136

Thread: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

  1. #91
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Fire Nation
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    31,332
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    In my opinion, the word betrayal cannot be thrown around like that. You may not agree with any of those things. However, Kishimoto does not owe us jack crap. So how is it betrayal?
    Just stickin' to the topic. Plus, Kishi did establish the whole "eff destiny, work hard" thing, no? He apparently forgot fate is what we make of it, not predestined.

  2. #92
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    ~Nyaa
    Country
    Turkey
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Just stickin' to the topic. Plus, Kishi did establish the whole "eff destiny, work hard" thing, no? He apparently forgot fate is what we make of it, not predestined.
    It still means very little. Fate still sets the limit upon you.
    Well said, actually. One's destiny and preset limits are the end result of the path a person can opt to take or not.
    It's not just about hard work in that sense. If you are a genius, you have the chance to catch up with your destined path by becoming a genius. You can escape your fate, opting to sit and wait until you rot.
    What Neji said to Naruto as his final words made sense only considering this fact. Neji chose the role he was destined to.

  3. #93
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    Marine Headquarters
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,114
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I can see no other reason than a normal perception of condition or perhaps Itachi told about that himself. Itachi definitely seemed to be targeting the Kyuubi, but he retreated in a potential fight against Jiraiya. I don't think anyone else would do the same.

    Believing a lie and being used is different concepts. Itachi believed Obito to be Madara. And what if he wasn't Madara and someone else? A dangerous Uchiha clansmen with MS. Just like Minato stated, whether he was truly Madara or someone pretending to be him, it wasn't Itachi's concern. And he was definitely messing up with Sasuke when he called Madara his master.
    To a degree, same goes for Nagato, as well. Who cares if he is Uchiha Madara or Uchiha "some random name"? He was powerful and offered the path Nagato thought that it could save himself from the despair. In the end, he was just being used.
    That's why it's odd, how come itachi, who was said to be one of the gifted uchiha was being trolled by obito? Itachi was said to be had a powerful insight and MS. Hhmm. Maybe itachi can't have it all. Maybe his weakness is obito, his master.

    Well, it doesn't matter anyway, obito trolled both nagato and itachi and used them on his own plan. And after all, obito had the same power and knowledge of madara. So itachi and nagato doesn't have any chance to fight obito. To both of them, obito is the one who teach them on how to used their power. So obito knows how to shut them off.
    When i claimed that minato knows Kage Bunshin, They said that I'm wrong.
    When i claimed that minato is a sage mode user, they said that I'm delusional.
    When i claimed that minato can extend his chakra arms and can activate BM, they said that I'm ridiculous.
    Seriously, Who's "wrong", "delusional" and "ridiculous" now?

  4. #94
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,509
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Just stickin' to the topic. Plus, Kishi did establish the whole "eff destiny, work hard" thing, no? He apparently forgot fate is what we make of it, not predestined.
    Even so, thats not betrayal. He didn't owe us that. if anything, you can say that he went against what he established earlier in the story. But even still, things weren't guaranteed to stay that way as the story progressed.

  5. #95
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Fire Nation
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    31,332
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    It still means very little. Fate still sets the limit upon you.
    Well said, actually. One's destiny and preset limits are the end result of the path a person can opt to take or not.
    It's not just about hard work in that sense. If you are a genius, you have the chance to catch up with your destined path by becoming a genius. You can escape your fate, opting to sit and wait until you rot.
    What Neji said to Naruto as his final words made sense only considering this fact. Neji chose the role he was destined to.
    Genius isn't associated with fate though. Something like winning the exam or being the main branch's bodyguard could be considered fate, which was something Naruto aimed to get rid of.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Even so, thats not betrayal. He didn't owe us that. if anything, you can say that he went against what he established earlier in the story. But even still, things weren't guaranteed to stay that way as the story progressed.
    Changing who Naruto was is in my opinion betrayal. I saw Naruto as complex, but now I see him more as one-dimensional, with the same thoughts or lines.

  6. #96
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,509
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Changing who Naruto was is in my opinion betrayal. I saw Naruto as complex, but now I see him more as one-dimensional, with the same thoughts or lines.
    If you want to view it as betrayal, that's fine. However, it isn't. Once again, Kishimoto owes us Jack garbage. He will do with his characters what he sees fit. That's the exact reason that Sasuke went from levelheaded, to bat crazy, back to levelheaded. That entire subplot served no other purpose than to off Danzo. it's the exact reason that Naruto's development cannot stay consistent, and he's thrust back into the dumbass role so many times that we've all become numb to it by now. Kishimoto will do with them what he sees fit. He's Not betraying anyone. He's writing the story that he wants to write.

  7. #97
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Fire Nation
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    31,332
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    But why victimize Naruto? Why turn him from someone with good potential to be a combat ninja into an overpowered freak? Sasuke was kept a genius throughout the series, although he got overpowered and went for Susano'o spam route as well.

  8. #98
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Wind_NiN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Well it's true what you're saying. I prefer part 1 of Naruto because it was centered around him and it was awesome seeing him improve rapidly. I feel that after Sasuke left, the story started being more centered around Sasuke.

  9. #99
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,509
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But why victimize Naruto? Why turn him from someone with good potential to be a combat ninja into an overpowered freak? Sasuke was kept a genius throughout the series, although he got overpowered and went for Susano'o spam route as well.
    Because it's easy. It's Easy to take a character that has already been established as a monumental idiot and place them back in an idiot role, regardless of the progress that that character has made. that way, the audience doesn't question when the character does something monumentally stupid. Because, after all, it's within character. Look what happened when Kishimoto tried to pull that shit with Sasuke.

    Overpowered freak? This late in the game, everyone's of note is an overpowered freak. look at Ē for example. The guy uses one technique, but despite that every person that he has faced has to be broken in someway otherwise they could easily die within seven seconds or less. that's honestly just being generous. Onoki goes without saying. Seriously, flying and Atomizing Jutsu?? Mei has two bloodline limits to match up. the only ones that can really be considered grounded are Gaara and Tsunade.

    Basically tactics and good jutsu usage aren't going to get you far at this point. I mean for shits sake, Look at Obito, dumbing him down for the plot sake is the only way to balance this guy out. He has one of the most broken techniques to exist in this entire story, that's not even counting the techniques he apparently has but hasn't used purely for the hell of it. And people complain about Kakashi not killing him, Seriously? Kakashi, and a shit ton of other people should be dead 12 times over by now. Hell, the only reason that anyone is much of a threat to him at all is due to the fact that Kakashi has his other eyeball, which he conveniently didn't just snatch back from him. Point being, everyone of note is an overpowered freak because being a "ninja" isn't going to get them anywhere anymore.
    Last edited by KiSwordsman; January 13, 2013 at 04:15 AM.

  10. #100
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    ~Nyaa
    Country
    Turkey
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,785
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel Kishi betrayed us !!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    That's why it's odd, how come itachi, who was said to be one of the gifted uchiha was being trolled by obito? Itachi was said to be had a powerful insight and MS. Hhmm. Maybe itachi can't have it all. Maybe his weakness is obito, his master.

    Well, it doesn't matter anyway, obito trolled both nagato and itachi and used them on his own plan. And after all, obito had the same power and knowledge of madara. So itachi and nagato doesn't have any chance to fight obito. To both of them, obito is the one who teach them on how to used their power. So obito knows how to shut them off.
    There isn't anything to suggest Itachi and Nagato had any sort of teaching from whom they referred to as Madara. As I said, Madara/Tobi isn't Itachi's master to me at this point. Where was this mentioned again after Itachi's toying with Sasuke ended up?
    Same goes for Nagato. His Rinnegan jutsu may not have any ties with Tobi. Such connection was never brought up.

    ---------- Post added at 03:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Genius isn't associated with fate though. Something like winning the exam or being the main branch's bodyguard could be considered fate, which was something Naruto aimed to get rid of.
    You can avoid your destiny, but you cannot change it.

  11. #101
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dhaka
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,175
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    well ....

    When I reading manga , Naruto was a simple orphan ( except QB ) whose want to become greatest ninja in his village and change his destiny and over come it by hard working .....

    but now it become like :

    son of 4th hokage !
    member of one of strongest clan ( Uzumaki )
    child of prophecy !
    Savior !
    and etc ....

    and above all of its , everything solving for him magically ....
    .............

    I mean I feel betrayed by writer .... I begun to read a manga that main character had to overcome destiny but now he is in complete opposite side !!

    damn , I really can't tell my real words ..... well , lets talk about ....
    You see i feel that despite all that you said being true, kishimoto did not change the essence of the character Naruto. And the very latest chapter once again proves it. Its not any of these new things: the birthline, the prophecy that ultimately came to use when finding the answer to the quest of Naruto's life: to find peace...it was rather the simple and the oldest motto that defined Naruto as a character...that is to "not give up". that's why i don't feel betrayed by the other superfluous details, which i feel are generally,and wrongly overemphasized.

  12. #102
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    I might be responding late here, but every time I see this kind of think, I feel like I must react to it.

    First, I claim that Kishi never betrayed you. Rather, you betrayed (fooled) yourself by your own misunderstanding of the manga, or your own inclinations towards specific aspects of the manga. This often happens whenever someone comes into someone else's ideas with a mind to see his own ideas. Now, I will show you by examples or other evidence that Kishi never betray us.

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    well ....

    When I reading manga , Naruto was a simple orphan ( except QB ) whose want to become greatest ninja in his village and change his destiny and over come it by hard working .....
    Naruto was never shown as a simple orphan in the manga. First, anyone who has some logic will know that because his name is the same as the title of the manga. From that, we knew he was a special orphan even if Kishi did not elaborate. Second, we soon learned he had the Kyuubi who was describe has a almighty demon that can destroy a mountain with a single swing of a tail. Third, we heard in the same episode that Kyuubi was sealed in Naruto by the fouth Hokage, who himself was said to be a genius ninja in the introduction.

    All these fact were more than enough to tell anyone irrespective of their level of intelligence that Naruto was very special. Moreover, his name was Uumaki. As you can see, in only the first episode, Naruto was shown to be have connection with Kyuubi, Yondaime, and the Uzumaki (thus Senjui). Of course, you need to be knowledgeable in creative writing to understand that Kishi gave Naruto everything, but would elaborate later because he is not a villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    but now it become like :

    son of 4th hokage !
    As I said, Naruto was shown to be connected by yondaime from the start. Hiruzen even said that Yondaime wanted the village to see Naruto has the hero who save the village from the monster. This is enough to show the strong connection of naruto with Yondaime. The sooner you accept, the better you will enjoy the manga.

    50 cents questions: Why will Yondaime, the savior of Konoha, want the village to see a kid as the hero? Did Naruto stop Kyuuibi? or Was Minato trying to tell Konoha that Naruto is his heir, and can take the glory of his heroic act?

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    but now it become like :
    member of one of strongest clan ( Uzumaki )
    Naruto was called Uzumaki in chapter 1. The only thing we did not know was the power of the Uzumaki. At least Kishi showed very quick he has a strong body and stamina. This happen at the start, not now. The problem with most people is that they interpreted Naruto's prankster in the wrong manner to the point that they have locked themselves in total denial of all the things Kishi forshadowed about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    but now it become like :
    child of prophecy !
    1. the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.
    2. something that is declared by a prophet, especially a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation.
    3. a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies.
    4. the action, function, or faculty of a prophet.


    A prophecy tell the future, and does not make a future. Thus, you should understand that it is because Naruto is great that the prophecy was given to the toad. Usually, the prophecy is given to people who are related to the event described in it. This mean the prophet is a sort of guardian, and is also in touch with the source of the prophecy relatively to the matter. In our case, it mean that the toads are guardian and overseer of the world piece. So if someone with the capability to save or destroy the world is around, they will be informed. If it is a savior, they will guide him, and if it is a destroyer, they will find someone to stop him. Minato, Nagato, Jiraya, and now Naruto are all subject of prophecy in some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    but now it become like :
    Savior !
    and etc ....
    I feel betrayed that you don't create a thread to show how Sasuke or Obito or Madara is a destroyer, or bad guy. NAruto being savior does not add anything to him. He had to work hard to show the capabilities of a savior, so that people can call him the savior. Note that Gaara was the strongest of his village, but he killed more people than he saved. Having a tailed beast does not make one person a savior. Sasuke was born a genius, but he is rampaging even on his own friends. People are born, and they chose their own path. As I said in the prophecy part, a thief will be prophecized something related to thieves.


    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    but now it become like :and above all of its , everything solving for him magically ....
    .............

    I mean I feel betrayed by writer .... I begun to read a manga that main character had to overcome destiny but now he is in complete opposite side !!

    damn , I really can't tell my real words ..... well , lets talk about ....
    Of course, with you analysis, you can come up only with this answer. Nothing about Naruto seems magical to me. While he his being beaten with a full fox withing him, some people can just asspul more than 3 new power up in a single fight. In this manga, Naruto is the only one whose new power up are always foreshadowed before they happen. Before Naruto tamed Kyuubi, we knew it. Before he started distributing chakra, Kyuubi told him he will show him later, but Naruto certainly learned it from Shikaku, or by observation. Only people who deny any hint Kishi gives about Naruto will always whine after the power up.

  13. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  14. #103
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    Marine Headquarters
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,114
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    He was betrayed because the great old toad never include sasuke as one of the destined child.

    And he felt that kishi betrayed him because he's giving naruto some awesome spotlight in his manga and awesome power whereas sasuke.... hhhmm. Kishi already forgot about him.
    When i claimed that minato knows Kage Bunshin, They said that I'm wrong.
    When i claimed that minato is a sage mode user, they said that I'm delusional.
    When i claimed that minato can extend his chakra arms and can activate BM, they said that I'm ridiculous.
    Seriously, Who's "wrong", "delusional" and "ridiculous" now?

  15. #104
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Country
    Iran
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,229
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    He was betrayed because the great old toad never include sasuke as one of the destined child.

    And he felt that kishi betrayed him because he's giving naruto some awesome spotlight in his manga and awesome power whereas sasuke.... hhhmm. Kishi already forgot about him.
    making joke ... probably you are not good at making joke to ridicule others ....

    well , this has nothing with power ... he can give them the power to creat new planets in this manga ... this is a story and and story is imaginary matter so writer can improve it with his imaginative ability ...

    the problem is the story doesn't make sense anymore ....

    Naruto only making good pose and saying nonsense ,,, main villian become a psycho , Madara had a plane with 1/100000000000 chance of success , people can manipulated by thousands and etc ...

    if this is not a betrayal , then it is a failure ....

    5 years later when you reread manga you will notice that after kage summit , this manga become bullshits with a craps ......
    Last edited by shafagh; January 18, 2013 at 08:18 AM.
    خداحافظ

  16. #105
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    Fire Nation
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,001
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I feel like Kishi betrayed us!

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    5 years later when you reread manga you will notice that after Pain Invasion Arc , this manga become bullshits with a craps ......
    I corrected that for you.

New Reply
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts