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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
IMO Sasuke didn't show any overwhelming power against Kages ( for example itachi could beat oro in seconds when he was in verge of his death !!!! or when he was 13-14 and with normal sharingan !!! ) .... and against Danzo , well , Danzo was the one who had hax ability not Sasuke .... in best case Sasuke was no where near Itachi ( and Sasuke was supposed to surpass Itachi with his MS ) nor Sasuke has access to super power Tsukiumi ( oneshot jutsu ) or Tatsuka sword or Yata shield ... .
and fact is that Sasuke finished Danzo with some luck and his intelligence not with overwhelming power ....
but after that kishi wanted to make more epic fights and monster and big jutsu come to play ....
Last edited by shafagh; January 19, 2013 at 07:44 AM.
I mean, Itachi was epic throughout the manga, up until his death, Jiraiya was epic even when he was dying, and Minato was shown to be cool and epic. Then you had Naruto, who was shown to be awesome against Pain and Darui and Karui. His resolve and speech was also pretty good at the Mountain when he was told his prophecy. Naruto is a great character, but in my opinion Kishi messed him up, which is what I don't like.
when did I say they weren't? That's what annoys me, how Naruto turned into a DBZ-like manga with all the overpowered freaks like ET Madara, Kyuubi Naruto, Susano'o Sasuke, and the likes.Quote:
Even E met his match in Naruto just because of Kyuubi chakra. The very same chakra that allowed Naruto to deal damage to Muu (though with Gaara's sand help). At this point, you can only safely say that ET Madara's the most overpowered freak.
But it used to. That's what I miss and want back. Tactics and using jutsu well was what made the manga interesting, and what made me root for Naruto himself. Look at his fight with Kiba, and how he impressed people. That's what I loved reading about Naruto, seeing intelligence used in battles. It's quite different from mangas like One Piece, Dragon Ball Z, and to a degree Bleach. Stuff like this is why I think we or the manga was betrayed.Quote:
Or, Tobi conveniently being Obito.
madara- his brother eye and first hokage cells,
Sasuke- his brother eye
---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
Kishi did not betray me, he might of betrayed you, but not me. I was smart and capable of knowing where this manga was heading. if you feel betrayed why then are you reading it? I know if i was reading a manga and then it becomes too boring for me or bad story I would have stopped reading it.
1. Any power up is OK as long as it is not Naruto's. I recall a false spoiler saying that Madara went eight gates - and everyone was happy.
2. Anyone can stop Biju and it will be OK as long as it is not Naruto. Even people will accept if Moegi get a power up to stop Juubi. Better, they will accept that Kishi bring back Rikudo Sennin or Hashimara to stop Juubi as long as it is not Naruto who does the job.
3. These people will be happy only when Kishi will show something or someone with a suggestion that that person can defeat Naruto. You certainly have seen how they praise a scroll because Suigetsu said it will give victory in the war - as if Suigetsu knew everything in the shinobi world.
4. My personal thought: They only read fact in which Sasuke is. Thus they ignore everything else.
Whats that son of the fourth-argument doing in here?
Wasnt it obvious right from the beginning? I mean, its been a while, and i havent went through the trouble of reading naruto from the beginning again, but to me, it was obvious right from the start. "uzumaki clan" is therefor no surprise aswell. Additionally, jiraya started that "child of prophecy" stuff years ago, so its no news eiter. Dunno how you can feel "betrayed" just because kishimoto didnt developed the story as YOU might have figured a decade ago.
The real thing that make me feel like i got cheated , is the ninja war right now. I was so eager to see it, i couldnt wait for it, but now... it sucks. Please kubo, end it asap and let naruto RIP.
Last edited by Pigov; January 21, 2013 at 09:58 AM.
I voted yes though I'm not sure if "cheated" is really the right word. More like "changed the story into something I don't like much".
I liked Naruto because of his underdog origins and personal achievements. I have been eager to see how the boy and his friends would develop and grow into adults and what kind of people they would be. This is where Naruto has fallen short for me. I don't think Naruto has grown into an adult. After the Kage summit his character's maturation was twisted into ideological polarization and "Naruto the person" was pushed aside in favor of the "Naruto the ideological avatar"
The problem with that is that I was a fan of Naruto the person more than his philosophy (which was clumsy, at best). His hopes, fears, sorrows, and triumphs were what I read the series for. Naruto never had to be "pure" or "right" to satisfy me. He just had to be "himself". When the narrative of the series was character focused I loved it. Now that it's switched to something more plot based, more about events and ideals than people, and I don't think it's nearly as good.
I haven't enjoyed this War arc, or the Turtle Island arc before it. In my opinion, they are the two worst arcs in the entire series.. by far. They were badly written, badly plotted, full of weird characterizations, and emotionally flat. In this sense I do feel cheated because I don't think Kishimoto is doing as a good a job as he is capable of. I had expectations of him and his series that were not met. Whether the fault is with "him" or with "my expectations" is debatable, I suppose, but the feeling is definitely there.
One good thing about the Turtle Island arc is that we got some insights into Naruto and how he felt about the village. That added to his character, in my opinion. We all knew Naruto cared about Konoha and his village, but we didn't know he still resented the village and had mistrust towards it even though they finally accepted him.
Then, he did hug no jutsu.
it showed just how scarred by those 13 years Naruto really was, and how difficult was to overcome all of that.
After all its most difficult to accept all of oneself ( even though Kishi kinda ripped Atlus and the Persona series with the whole "Shadow/dark Naruto, I'm me" thingy ), and Naruto back then was the same socially awkward Naruto of part 1
It also showed how realistic Naruto was; despite being accepted by Konoha now, he still harbored suspicion and bad feelings towards them, and who could blame him? It added more to his character. Naruto changed from wanting to be hokage for recognition to wanting to be hokage to protect the ones he cared about. Now, he's just a repetition of one thing - establish peace and Jesus no jutsu. He became one dimensional.
He faced down his darkside and was like "I believe in myself, so let's hug it out man." That resolution made so little sense.
The whole point of facing down your id, which Persona and Ar tonelico games always do so well, is that your id is "you". Defeating it is about accepting a part fo yourself you reject so you can address the core problems in yourself whose very existence your rejecting. Instead Naruto literally preached to himself until his dark side went away.
Last edited by Jammin; January 23, 2013 at 11:20 PM.
The manga could have easily gone with naruto being an underdog who through hard work made his way from rock bottom to the top and find out he was the son of the hokage all along which would have been the cherry on top of the middle finger naruto would have given the village after becoming hokage however the story took a different direction. Naruto is not "just" the son of the greatest shinobi of the previous generation but he is also a number of other things. With him being an uzumaku (senju), descendant of the sage, possessor of the kyubi, his magical public speaking abilities which convert people to his religion on the spot and who knows what other magic talent or genetic advantage he has had from birth he is perfect, and pure, and awesome, and flawless and whatever other synonym of perfect you can think of.
Its not just the story not developing how some people would have expected. This is not the story of an underdog, this is the story of someone born so overwhelmingly awesome and from any conceivable point of view so much greater than everybody else that society itself made a point of making him fail and not only he didn't fail but now carries the weight of saving the very society which despised him for no good or coherent reason.
Well, imho opinion, its just the perceptive point that changed.
It started with naruto beeing an underdog just because everyone else were stupid, partly fashist assholes, who hated naruto because of his "curse" and him beeing different.
Now its just that everyone else is shown in a bad spot since they underestimated him. Maybe thats what kishi is after? I dont know, we are all just guessing.
Anyways, i dont disagree with you, especially during ninja school and earlier training sequences, he showed no promise and skill at all, so the emphasis on "naruto->underdog" is probably right and intented.
Well, it certainly changed themes somewhere down the line. I think in order to avoid this incongruity now, we shouldn't have had Naruto's discourse to Neji including "overcoming destiny" in the first. Overcoming his position would have been better since he definitely did that. Iruka's recollection after the Pain fight are proof.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't say I feel "betrayed" or "cheated"
I just want to ask you when Naruto after the TS worked his butt off to grow stronger without any asspull? Naruto was supposed to be the talentless guy who actually really has to work hard to achieve things but let´s review what happened:
First he comes back after 2 and a half years training, in which he actually had time to work his butt off, with the apparently strongest ninja of Konoha, but the only thing he learned was a bigger Rasengan, a way to free himself from a Genjutsu, which the first time he tried did not work anyway, and of course being way easier to provoke. But then he completes a Jutsu which the extremely talented, 4th Hokage, who had several years to achieve the jutsu, or Naruto´s master, who had a lifetime to complete the jutsu, could not complete and he did it in a few days (forgot the exact number) even though he did not even know about elemental chakra before. Hmm, that does not sound like hard work succeeding over talent. The same happened with Sage Mode. He learned it faster than Jiraiya and was even able to perfect it (i guess you can´t have a protagonist that looks like a frog). And finally, we have his Kyuubi power ups, i guess those do not need a comment.
I admit that the word "betrayed" is way too harsh, i would choose disappointed but that does not change the fact that imo shafagh is right.
Last edited by MiyamotoMusashi; February 01, 2013 at 12:36 AM.