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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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64. You may not vote on this poll
  • Blackbeard

    33 51.56%
  • Enel

    31 48.44%
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Thread: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

  1. #16
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu-Sama View Post
    Blackbeard totally trashed Ace - Ace wouldn't stand a chance vs Enel. By the logic of 'He beat one Logia, he could easily beat another' Blackbeard could defeat all Admirals, and Usopp, after beating Perona, could defeat Whitebeard. Just because he beat one Logia - and one of the weakest Logia users we've seen - he won't necessarily win all matches, or else we should just end OP now since Luffy's beat Moria, Lucci and Caeser Clown.

    CoO Haki lets you know essentially see the future - Luffy used it Vs. Mihawk, saw a strong attack, and consequently avoided it. Mihawk is much stronger than Luffy, and yet Luffy was able to avoid injury by using it. Enel is far, far stronger, faster, more athletic, and overall more powerful than Luffy - he's fully capable of using his CoO haki to see BB's attack, then his speed, power, staff, and the ability to merge into objects like trees then move at the speed of lightning to escape. Ace was strong, yeah, but he wasn't top class - Against Admirals or the like Ace wouldn't last long at all. Enel is far stronger than Ace - his DF is described as 'unbeatable' and he lost after a long, hard fight with Luffy - and pretty much all of that fight was Enel unable to use his 'unbeatable' Logia fruit.

    If BB decides to pull Enel is (assuming Enel can't avoid it somehow) then all that's doing is giving Enel a chance to seriously injure BB before dodging the punch - After BB pulls you in he goes for physical contact, which Enel, with his strength, agility, and Mantra, is perfectly suited to countering. I think if you think it will be a stomp you need to re-read the Skypeia arc - Enel was far stronger than being beaten by Luffy made him seem: I'd put him at on Admiral Level, and against someone who fights in close quarters, he's as invincible as Robin said...

    BB's strong, but relies on physical contact. Enel's speciality is avoiding physical combat. BB is incredibly strong, but this match-up is one that I have to say favours his opponent...
    That's getting a little out of hand, how am I implying Usopp would beat Whitebeard???

    Blackbeard excels in close combat, he scarred Shanks even before having any fruit. And it wasn't a fluke or something, he was formidable enough for Shanks to make a special trip to go warn Whitebeard not to send Ace after Blackbeard.

    If Enel was able to avoid basically everything, like you're saying, then he wouldn't have been hit by the large ball of gold on Luffy fist. That's how he was defeated. He saw it coming, couldn't evade it, was injured by it even though he was hit by the gold, not Luffy's rubber body.

    So really now...

    Blackbeard utterly defeated Ace, a logia at least as powerful as Enel (Ace's bounty was 550 million, Oda said Enel's would be 500 million). So based off of what we've actually seen happen in the manga, Blackbeard wins this.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    That's getting a little out of hand, how am I implying Usopp would beat Whitebeard???

    Blackbeard excels in close combat, he scarred Shanks even before having any fruit. And it wasn't a fluke or something, he was formidable enough for Shanks to make a special trip to go warn Whitebeard not to send Ace after Blackbeard.

    If Enel was able to avoid basically everything, like you're saying, then he wouldn't have been hit by the large ball of gold on Luffy fist. That's how he was defeated. He saw it coming, couldn't evade it, was injured by it even though he was hit by the gold, not Luffy's rubber body.

    So really now...

    Blackbeard utterly defeated Ace, a logia at least as powerful as Enel (Ace's bounty was 550 million, Oda said Enel's would be 500 million). So based off of what we've actually seen happen in the manga, Blackbeard wins this.
    Implying that Ace having a bounty of 550mill, and Enel having a bounty of 500mill, means Ace is stronger is directly implying Caribou beats Zoro and Sanji put together. Bounties aren't the be all and end all - Ace's bounty was so high because he was A) A top crew member in Whitebeard's crew, and B) the son of Gol D. Roger. Having a high bounty doesn't mean you're strong, there are other reasons for getting bounties...

    Yes, I agree Blackbeard excels in Close Combat, but Enel excels at fighting from range and staying out of Close Combat. The match-up is unfavourable to Blackbeard - I'm not saying he's weak, I'm saying Enel has the advantage due to his powers.

    Enel was defeated by a single blow from Luffy, yes. While in his giant (possibly immobile) form. Which he went into to use an attack that would have killed Luffy were he not made of Rubber. Luffy says it himself while running down Enel's arm - 'That won't work on me!' Enel, before going into his giant form, was only hit by Luffy's random attacks - such as deflecting them off a wall. Once in giant form he was slower, but much more powerful. Were he to go into that form vs Blackbeard, then Blackbeard could and would definitely hit him. But that's assuming BB survives the lightning onslaught that's hitting him, and even if he can grab onto Enel to neutralise his powers while in giant form, then since Enel's body is made of lightning - moreso than just a logia, he was actually a giant lightning god - so there's nothing saying BB won't get electrocuted. This is like the Shiki fight all over again - the final blow is always going to be set up in some way special, or else it would just be used from the start.

    And as for being hit by the gold, Enel described it when Luffy was spinning the orb around, in order to disrupt the electricity - the orb conducts electricity, so it's drawn into it. That's why the lightning ball broke up, because the power was drawn into the gold ball and then not into Luffy due to his rubber power. By the same logic, Enel's armour of lightning would have been drawn into the golden ball too, meaning he has less defence and can't move. When the ball hits him, he's in full lightning god mode, and then when he hits the bell, he's not. He's back to normal. There were so many circumstances in Luffy's favour (as always in big battles) that Enel losing is almost meaningless. Ace, on the other hand, had a fair fight with Blackbeard, both going all out, and Blackbeard won, although it was close. Ace did manage to ignite BB a few times, and then went and stuck two flaming spears through him. Ace, in an even fight, was close to Blackbeard. Luffy, in a fight wherethe most vital aspect was in his favour - Enel's DF was useless for both attacking and defending vs Luffy - only just managed to come away victorious.

    I'm sorry, but saying 'Blackbeard defeated Ace, with a Logia, therefore he'd defeat Enel' is just nonsense...

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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Didn't Blackbeard say something about his DF absorbs the pain and that's why he can't change into that "gas" state like normal Logia users. If it does absorb pain, I'm not sure how Blackbeard can last against Enel's 100 million volt attacks.
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu-Sama View Post
    Implying that Ace having a bounty of 550mill, and Enel having a bounty of 500mill, means Ace is stronger is directly implying Caribou beats Zoro and Sanji put together. Bounties aren't the be all and end all - Ace's bounty was so high because he was A) A top crew member in Whitebeard's crew, and B) the son of Gol D. Roger. Having a high bounty doesn't mean you're strong, there are other reasons for getting bounties...

    Yes, I agree Blackbeard excels in Close Combat, but Enel excels at fighting from range and staying out of Close Combat. The match-up is unfavourable to Blackbeard - I'm not saying he's weak, I'm saying Enel has the advantage due to his powers.

    Enel was defeated by a single blow from Luffy, yes. While in his giant (possibly immobile) form. Which he went into to use an attack that would have killed Luffy were he not made of Rubber. Luffy says it himself while running down Enel's arm - 'That won't work on me!' Enel, before going into his giant form, was only hit by Luffy's random attacks - such as deflecting them off a wall. Once in giant form he was slower, but much more powerful. Were he to go into that form vs Blackbeard, then Blackbeard could and would definitely hit him. But that's assuming BB survives the lightning onslaught that's hitting him, and even if he can grab onto Enel to neutralise his powers while in giant form, then since Enel's body is made of lightning - moreso than just a logia, he was actually a giant lightning god - so there's nothing saying BB won't get electrocuted. This is like the Shiki fight all over again - the final blow is always going to be set up in some way special, or else it would just be used from the start.

    And as for being hit by the gold, Enel described it when Luffy was spinning the orb around, in order to disrupt the electricity - the orb conducts electricity, so it's drawn into it. That's why the lightning ball broke up, because the power was drawn into the gold ball and then not into Luffy due to his rubber power. By the same logic, Enel's armour of lightning would have been drawn into the golden ball too, meaning he has less defence and can't move. When the ball hits him, he's in full lightning god mode, and then when he hits the bell, he's not. He's back to normal. There were so many circumstances in Luffy's favour (as always in big battles) that Enel losing is almost meaningless. Ace, on the other hand, had a fair fight with Blackbeard, both going all out, and Blackbeard won, although it was close. Ace did manage to ignite BB a few times, and then went and stuck two flaming spears through him. Ace, in an even fight, was close to Blackbeard. Luffy, in a fight wherethe most vital aspect was in his favour - Enel's DF was useless for both attacking and defending vs Luffy - only just managed to come away victorious.

    I'm sorry, but saying 'Blackbeard defeated Ace, with a Logia, therefore he'd defeat Enel' is just nonsense...
    The bounty logic was for Sachsenhesse anyway. But Caribou was probably stronger than Zoro and Sanji before the timeskip since they have not much idea of haki. I'm not a big fan of these bounties though.

    I just couldn't imagine what Enel could do after Blackbeard casts a Kurouzu. Even Whitebeard could not hit him with his devil fruit. He could even just absorb the big lightning ball if he wishes too but that would be OP. Enel could have a chance if he knows Busoshoku Haki and hit him with his trident but unfortunately I don't think he knows it yet.

  6. #20
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Quote:
    The bounty logic was for Sachsenhesse anyway.
    oh dont take me too seriously

    and how would a hakiimbued trident make more damage then a trident heatet to a high degree? Ist still a piercing weapon and you dont need something to hit blackbeard, because he attracts the damage...

  7. #21
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Going by their powers they are literally equal, BB with his two DFs and Enel with his Mantra and uber powerful DF can really do some damage. It's just that we met them in different set ups in the story, that is why it is harder to judge them. Let's look at it this way, let them fight for a couple of times, I am sure Enel can take some and BB can take some. In the end one might take one or two fights, that are not to the death of course, but rather than that we can just go by our intuition to who might that be. I kind of take it for BB he has the will to survive and to fight, maybe not genuine but certainly a descent amount.

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  9. #22
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPeon View Post
    Enel could have a chance if he knows Busoshoku Haki and hit him with his trident but unfortunately I don't think he knows it yet.
    As everybody's favorite poster with a creepy HxH avatar (Uriel, yours isn't creepy. Gon is cool, The wish-granting genie is scary...) pointed out, Haki is unnecessary vs BB. The Guru Guru no mi is a paramacina type, and his Yami Yami no mi (or Yomi Yomi, damn you Kenichi for confusing me...) doesn't give him intangibility. Quite the opposite, in fact - he takes every hit he absorbs.

    Enel may or may not have CoA Haki, which is why he's not going to beat the likes of Aokiji or Kizaru. However, against BB he's pretty much the perfect counter - can move as fast as thunder to avoid being sucked in by his powers (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2371-...apter-264.html - that's serious distance covered in no time), specialises in long-range combat, being able to inflict massive damage from great range, and has incredible CoO haki, coupled with his DF powers, that let him dodge clse-combat attacks with ease.

    BB is fantastically strong, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but the match-up is perfectly suited for Enel.

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  11. #23
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Still Kazu isn't explaining how Enel defeats Teach D: I'm waiting that for argue.

    Really, to me someone who scratch Shanks' face, whom stay in battle with Mihawk or Whitebeard, to be defeated by a simple logia is a completely nonsense.

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  13. #24
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Arashi View Post
    Still Kazu isn't explaining how Enel defeats Teach D: I'm waiting that for argue.

    Really, to me someone who scratch Shanks' face, whom stay in battle with Mihawk or Whitebeard, to be defeated by a simple logia is a completely nonsense.
    Teach is a coward and those feats were done with cowardice. You cannot use those feats to at all measure BB as a fighter. Enels DF is just as haxed as BB but as someone has already mentioned, Teach requires physical contact inorder to be able to nullify DF. He cant teleport like Enel can nor move at high speeds. There has been really good explanations of how Enel outclasses BB but you guys seem to ignore them.

    So far Enel has shown better usage of his Haki, better Agility, Speed and pure Endurance and durability.
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  15. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Teach is a coward and those feats were done with cowardice. You cannot use those feats to at all measure BB as a fighter. Enels DF is just as haxed as BB but as someone has already mentioned, Teach requires physical contact inorder to be able to nullify DF. He cant teleport like Enel can nor move at high speeds. There has been really good explanations of how Enel outclasses BB but you guys seem to ignore them.

    So far Enel has shown better usage of his Haki, better Agility, Speed and pure Endurance and durability.
    Precisely. A sea king bit of Shank's arm, are you suggesting a simple sea king is as strong as one of the Yonkou? We don't know the situation Shanks got the injury in, and BB has typically fought from the shadows (pun not intended.) As for 'BB fought with Mihawk and Whitebeard, therefore he's stronger' is absolute rubbish. Rayleigh hasn't fought against Whitebeard or Mihawk, and Buggy has. So, by your argument, is Buggy stronger than Rayleigh? Fights are situational - we have no idea how well Enel would have fared vs those opponents, but since he's now on the moon, we won't now.

    Enel has shown himself to be far, far superior in ranged combat. As for damaging BB, I've already pointed out Thor and Julungul, which are incredibly powerful at range. But, if you insist, Enel could also shock BB with any range of volts to damage him - he may have great endurance, but he still feels pain, as shown when Ace kept setting him on fire - when he gets close, one of those could do some damage and stun BB enough for Enel to get away. Alternatively, if BB is trying to hide and strike at the opportune time, Enel could use Sango to electrocute him from range. Or, of course, BB could try to suck Enel in, and he could go into his Amaru mode and fry him like that. Zoro, who was shown to have pretty nuts endurance (taking all of Luffy's fatigue after the Moria battle, for instance) was OHKO'd by an Enel who was A) not fighting seriously in any way, shape or form and B) fighting off Robin (OHKO'd) and Wiper (who killed Enel. Of course, that's not gunna stop him...)

    Even if you are 100% right, BB is far, far stronger, and manages to OHKO Enel, then Enel can bring himself back to life.]. Sure, BB could neutralise it, but it would work at least once as a surprise attack, and you surely can't be saying that a surprised Blackbeard could take an attack that destroys islands, are you?

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  16. #26
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Teach is a coward and those feats were done with cowardice. You cannot use those feats to at all measure BB as a fighter. Enels DF is just as haxed as BB but as someone has already mentioned, Teach requires physical contact inorder to be able to nullify DF. He cant teleport like Enel can nor move at high speeds. There has been really good explanations of how Enel outclasses BB but you guys seem to ignore them.

    So far Enel has shown better usage of his Haki, better Agility, Speed and pure Endurance and durability.
    Unfortunately, the manga says otherwise.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2541-1...apter-434.html

    Shanks says he wasn't being careless, talking about how strong Blackbeard is.

  17. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    Unfortunately, the manga says otherwise.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2541-1...apter-434.html

    Shanks says he wasn't being careless, talking about how strong Blackbeard is.
    Shanks wasn't being careless vs the Sea King either, he knew precisely what he was doing. And yet he lost an arm. Now, I'll say it again. We don't know the circumstances under which BB injured Shanks, and until we do, we can't judge what that means about BB's strength. Yes, Shanks warned WB not to let Ace fight BB. But Ace was shown to be roughly equal to Smoker, who is almost certainly the weakest of all the Logia users we've seen. Ace had a high bounty because of who he was, not who he beat.

    Enel showed raw destructive power that rivals the admirals, close combat skills that rival Mihawk, the speed of Rayleigh or Kizaru, and the total Devil Fruit mastery of Luffy - although, of course, his devil fruit is far, far stronger than Luffy's. His biggest weakness, IE potential lack of CoA Haki, doesn't matter one iota vs a Logia user who's logia increases damage they take. Victory to Enel.

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  18. #28
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    Unfortunately, the manga says otherwise.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2541-1...apter-434.html

    Shanks says he wasn't being careless, talking about how strong Blackbeard is.
    How does that prove that it was not a cowardly attack? Yes Shanks could have been careful and BB could have still done something sneaky like he always does. So far the only person he has fought fairly (or atleast seemed that way) was Ace. Everyone else of equal or greater strength was either cheap shotted or ganged upon. Heck he took his whole Pirate crew just for Booney
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Teach is a coward and those feats were done with cowardice. You cannot use those feats to at all measure BB as a fighter. Enels DF is just as haxed as BB but as someone has already mentioned, Teach requires physical contact inorder to be able to nullify DF. He cant teleport like Enel can nor move at high speeds. There has been really good explanations of how Enel outclasses BB but you guys seem to ignore them.

    So far Enel has shown better usage of his Haki, better Agility, Speed and pure Endurance and durability.
    Enel can't teleport, he could just move fast. This is where the Blackbeard's fruit comes handy. If I understood right, his darkness gravitation pulls the fruit user towards him. If we're talking about endurance, BB (including his fruit's weakness) should last a bit longer than Enel. Based on what shown in the manga, Blackbeard is even physically stronger than Luffy.

    ---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu-Sama View Post
    Shanks wasn't being careless vs the Sea King either, he knew precisely what he was doing. And yet he lost an arm. Now, I'll say it again. We don't know the circumstances under which BB injured Shanks, and until we do, we can't judge what that means about BB's strength. Yes, Shanks warned WB not to let Ace fight BB. But Ace was shown to be roughly equal to Smoker, who is almost certainly the weakest of all the Logia users we've seen. Ace had a high bounty because of who he was, not who he beat.

    Enel showed raw destructive power that rivals the admirals, close combat skills that rival Mihawk, the speed of Rayleigh or Kizaru, and the total Devil Fruit mastery of Luffy - although, of course, his devil fruit is far, far stronger than Luffy's. His biggest weakness, IE potential lack of CoA Haki, doesn't matter one iota vs a Logia user who's logia increases damage they take. Victory to Enel.
    He gave his arm because he wanted to bet. Not that because he couldn't kill the sea king. Blackbeard has also a destructive power. A power to suuuck in everythiiing including lightning. He could also attack from far using his Gura Guraaa fruuuit. O yea.
    -----
    Btw., which manga chapter was shown that Ace was fighting equal against Smoker? If I remember right, it was just a filler and they forgot that Ace has a haki.
    Last edited by SuperPeon; January 09, 2013 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Forgot something to add.

  20. #30
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    Re: Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPeon View Post
    Enel can't teleport, he could just move fast. This is where the Blackbeard's fruit comes handy. If I understood right, his darkness gravitation pulls the fruit user towards him. If we're talking about endurance, BB (including his fruit's weakness) should last a bit longer than Enel. Based on what shown in the manga, Blackbeard is even physically stronger than Luffy.
    Him getting pulled is really not going to hinder him escaping or moving away now is it? Its not like the pull is so strong or instant, Enel has plenty of time to do quite a lot. Infact i think it was Kazu who explained how BB should not even try to pull or come into close range with Enel because of the potential of heavy damage being rained upon him.

    And since when did BB become physically stronger than Luffy? Out of all his showings, i dont see where you get this assumption.
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