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Thread: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

  1. #31
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member AandWguy's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Okay, I have seen that apperently there has been hints about this for some time but I still didn't see this coming why the colossal titan, isn't he supposed to be th biggest mystery of them all? (That and some of these characters can be hard to tell apart sometimes, the art can be very muddled at times with people's faces.)
    Suprise!!! Gotta love those faces!

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Because he was underground for Pete's sake. How did all of you miss this apparently?

    It hasn't been revealed how the Titans "work" exactly (solar powered like Superman?), but it's clear some of them (possibly the human transformers more so than the "always-on" Titans) are in deep trouble when they are underground or otherwise cut off from the sun. Eren can't transform there, Annie wouldn't go down the stairs to the sewer when she was found out.
    Eren transformed while underground.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    So the only complaint about writing Reiner's thoughts I would consider valid is that he might have rather thought something like "I have to get outside" or "if only I could transform".
    As I said, he would be thinking about whatever is preventing him from transforming. If it was true that he couldn't transform because he was inside (Eren did it), then he would be thinking how to rectify that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    But the author choosing not to do it that way is neither sloppy nor incoherent in my opinion. I can completely understand it when someone's only thoughts in the face of impending death are "fuck, it's over".
    Sure, it would be understandable, but he never showed the slightest signs of giving up.

  3. #33
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    1) Why is the reasoning here that they need to get them underground then?
    2) Why do the colossal Titans in the wall have to be kept from all sunlight immediately?
    3) Eren wasn't completely cut off from the sun, he could see light through the entrance. His psyche might have been the reason he couldn't transform initially, or a combination of very little sunlight and very low impetus (same as when he was down in the well).
    Annie on the other hand was maybe refusing to enter the sewer because after a few dozen meters there would be absolutely no sun.

    Look... as I said, we don't know how it works exactly (and if or to what degree Eren is special in any way), but being underground is trouble for at least some Titans. Fact.
    My point is it's quite honestly almost laughable to proclaim PLOT HOLE OMG at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    If it was true that he couldn't transform because he was inside (Eren did it), then he would be thinking how to rectify that.
    Would he? Do you consciously think "I can't make it to my appointment because I cannot catch the bus because my top sprinting speed is insufficient to reach the station in time"? Or do you just think "Dang, I won't make it?", skipping all the stuff in between? Reiner is obviously an experienced Titan; I have no problem with him considering the impossibility of transformation so self evident that he doesn't even pause to think about it, going straight to the consequence - which is death.
    It would actually come across as less natural if he walked the reader through his thought process step by step. Yes, many authors write this way, but it's a crutch to aid the reader, not how I reckon most people's brains work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    Sure, it would be understandable, but he never showed the slightest signs of giving up.
    Not what I was getting at. I mean unlike in fiction, where a 10 second countdown can last 30 minutes of film or 20 pages of book/comic, in real life there is no time for elaborate trains of thought when you're staring a monster in the face. Giving up has nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by 10er; February 14, 2013 at 12:24 PM.

  4. #34
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zasz's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    This plotwist was unexpected; I literally didn't see it coming.
    I wonder if we will know soon enough about the worst destiny that the Mankind is supposed to avoid by making sacrifices.
    I suppose that Eren's father has something to do with it.

  5. #35
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Another fact that supports that the sunlight theory is that Ymir only transformed just after it was sunrise

    http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...0/c040/34.html

  6. #36
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    1) Why is the reasoning here that they need to get them underground then?
    2) Why do the colossal Titans in the wall have to be kept from all sunlight immediately?
    It seems that if you cut off all light to a human-titan, they eventually go into hibernation (the key is how long), but they clearly are not like the normal titans which normally power down immediately at night time. Given that it would be otherwise impossible to confine someone who can turn into a titan, weakening them by depriving them of sunlight is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    3) Eren wasn't completely cut off from the sun, he could see light through the entrance. His psyche might have been the reason he couldn't transform initially, or a combination of very little sunlight and very low impetus (same as when he was down in the well).
    It was the lack of a clear motive. He couldn't transform in the well because he didn't have a goal other than to turn into a titan. He couldn't transform into a titan during the tunnel because he was in denial about Annie and didn't want to hurt her which mean he didn't have a clear goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Annie on the other hand was maybe refusing to enter the sewer because after a few dozen meters there would be absolutely no sun.
    It also severely restricts her possible course of action and since she thought they were acting weird from the beginning, that isn't a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Look... as I said, we don't know how it works exactly (and if or to what degree Eren is special in any way), but being underground is trouble for at least some Titans. Fact.
    And it is true that lack of sunlight does not mean immediate inability to transform into a titan, at least not for all titans. Fact.

    We also have titans moving around at night which should be impossible if the hypothesis was 100% true. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Would he? Do you consciously think "I can't make it to my appointment because I cannot catch the bus because my top sprinting speed is insufficient to reach the station in time"? Or do you just think "Dang, I won't make it?", skipping all the stuff in between? Reiner is obviously an experienced Titan; I have no problem with him considering the impossibility of transformation so self evident that he doesn't even pause to think about it, going straight to the consequence - which is death.
    It would actually come across as less natural if he walked the reader through his thought process step by step. Yes, many authors write this way, but it's a crutch to aid the reader, not how I reckon most people's brains work.
    If I can't make my appointment because I can't catch the bus, I start considering alternatives rather than just immediately resign myself to fate. If he can't transform into a titan at that exact second, I damn well expect him to try to figure out how to put himself into a situation in which he cannot. It damn well isn't believable that he doesn't spend a single second trying to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Not what I was getting at. I mean unlike in fiction, where a 10 second countdown can last 30 minutes of film or 20 pages of book/comic, in real life there is no time for elaborate trains of thought when you're staring a monster in the face. Giving up has nothing to do with it.
    Thinking about how to put yourself into a position to be able to transform doesn't take more than 10 seconds. Coming up with an idea might, but thinking about it does not.

  7. #37
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    One thing for sure, we know that Ryner's bite wound on his arm regenerated while only under exposure of sunlight. So the theory of them being unable to transform in underground is possible.

  8. #38
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Beatrice's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    "Reiner Braun, most adept at gaining the trust of his comrades".


    Meh, Personally I go with Reiner and Bertholdt being forced or pushed to do this going by previous statements such as "If something a Soldier is supposed to protect is threatened you have no choice but to step in.No matter the foe, that is the responsibility of a Soldier."
    "I wanna see my hometown again, that's all I'm about no matter it takes."
    "I have no will of my own"
    "Just like you Eren, I have something I cannot deviate from."

    Irvin: "The Colossal Titan and the Armored Titan follow the same Principles as you (Eren) presumably, your will is the key.The key that can allow humanity to escape this hopeless situation"

    And if anything, the chapter confirmed multiple factions within the Titans.
    Last edited by Beatrice; February 15, 2013 at 03:26 AM.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

  9. #39
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Hamy's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodi View Post
    Another fact that supports that the sunlight theory is that Ymir only transformed just after it was sunrise

    http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...0/c040/34.html
    Actually Ymir herself is a problem with the solar powered titan theory, or at the very least the strong necessity for it, since she was able to transform into a titan during a harsh winter with no sunlight at all in order to save that guy for Historia (its in the chapter you posted)... Moreover, I think the question here with titans is just how much sunlight do they necessarily need if at all since remember we just had the introduction of titans that could function during night time, much to the surprise of the team, or is something else going on here with the biology of titans (like new types being developed etc). That frankly the previous chapters just kinda blew a lot of common knowledge we thought we had about titans that I do not think we have anything solid to go by at the moment.

    But there is one thing I would like to consider... Perhaps it is not necessarily sunlight per se that the titans need but heat in order to function or transform? I mean it seems characteristic that the titans appear to be running on very high temperatures, at least looking at the ones who have transformed, and generally release vapor as they do so in their strongly regenerative phases. What I am saying is that perhaps it is possible for them to transform even in darkness or cold provided they have some sort of stored up heat, which may include their human form.
    Last edited by Hamy; February 15, 2013 at 04:17 AM.

  10. #40
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    And it is true that lack of sunlight does not mean immediate inability to transform into a titan, at least not for all titans. Fact.
    That's why I said some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    We also have titans moving around at night which should be impossible if the hypothesis was 100% true. Fact.
    That's why I said (two times by the way) we don't know how it works yet.The Titan threatening Reiner came from even deeper underground somehow, so obviously it's not equally bad for all of them. All I was suggesting was the possibility that being underground is the paramount problem here. Because no one in this thread even discussed that issue before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    It damn well isn't believable that he doesn't spend a single second trying to do that.
    I disagree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post

    It was the lack of a clear motive. He couldn't transform in the well because he didn't have a goal other than to turn into a titan. He couldn't transform into a titan during the tunnel because he was in denial about Annie and didn't want to hurt her which mean he didn't have a clear goal.
    That's just a hypothesis largely ignorant humans have come up with. Might be true... might be false. You can't honestly believe that him being in a dark well and in a dark sewer when he can't transform is mere dramatic coincidence? It's the author deliberately confusing us. One of the factors (motive or light) might be a red herring and thus coincidence in the manga's universe. Or they are correlated.
    We don't know yet.

    But I already wrote all this in more condensed form in my last post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post

    Thinking about how to put yourself into a position to be able to transform doesn't take more than 10 seconds. Coming up with an idea might, but thinking about it does not.
    Ugh, it was an example of how dramatic time and real time aren't always identical. No one said this was the exact same kind of situation...

    However, you seem pretty determined to ignore or misconstrue my points in favor of yours. Guess you like to be right. So do I, but the difference is I wait until I have all the information before jumping to conclusions like "shame on you, author, you made a huge mistake".


    Edit: Separately from all previous points of discussion... another "underground theory" just occurred to me:
    Sunlight, motive and all that stuff might or might not be relevant, but in addition to this, maybe it can get problematic when a Titan's "displacement power" is insufficient. What I mean is:
    When Eren transformed in the sewer, he only had to "displace" the cobblestone street above him (see the page Reclaimer linked). Reiner was much deeper inside a castle, surrounded by much more solid material. Maybe his transformation displacement would not have moved all that mass, wedging his incomplete form inside the tunnel instead. "But Reiner even smashed the wall gate to bits!", you say? Well... Titan bodies form from the inside out (see Eren's unfinished skeleton torso transformation), so Reiner's armored exterior would be generated as the very last part. We have seen unarmored newbie Titan Eren punch stuff so hard his limbs basically exploded. If Reiner hit the walls during transformation (i.e. before his armor is complete), it might very well be his body that gives way, not the stone.
    Last edited by 10er; February 15, 2013 at 05:16 AM.

  11. #41
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    I actually can't decide what to choose for that poll. At this point it could go anywhere.

  12. #42
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Hmm. I'm wondering if the ape titan has been farming humans to use as titans against Reiner's titan community. Reiner's community would try to eradicate the humans to prevent a war they couldn't win. They discovered that humans, like Eren, could be made as sentient titans and they want to take Eren to the village so they can understand how to make all humans as titans and remove the threat of the ape titan's army.

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  14. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    All I was suggesting was the possibility that being underground is the paramount problem here. Because no one in this thread even discussed that issue before.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Because he was underground for Pete's sake. How did all of you miss this apparently?
    Yeah, that's not just suggesting the possibility. That's making a claim and being condescending.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    Ugh, it was an example of how dramatic time and real time aren't always identical. No one said this was the exact same kind of situation...
    So you were making points that have absolutely no application to the matter at hand. That sounds reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10er View Post
    However, you seem pretty determined to ignore or misconstrue my points in favor of yours. Guess you like to be right. So do I, but the difference is I wait until I have all the information before jumping to conclusions like "shame on you, author, you made a huge mistake".
    When you're losing an argument, accusing the other person of committing logical fallacies is a pathetic move. So is changing what you claim you were saying.

  15. #44
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    *sigh*

    A few years ago I would have probably jumped right into this and engaged in a flamewar for dozens of posts (or until a mod intervened) but... I am kind of past that stuff.
    So let me just sum up some things:
    First of all, I never once accused you of logical fallacies. But I don't even care where you got that idea. More importantly, you are still not addressing my arguments, choosing instead to complain in a rather pedantic manner about my condescending phrasing (by the way, pot, kettle, etc.) and how you consider what I said to be "claims", not "suggestions", even though the main gist of all of my posts was "we don't have enough information, don't bash the writing prematurely".
    This behavior of yours leads me to several possible conclusions:

    If you really can't see what I initially meant, you are more dense than I figured; if you are still deliberately misconstruing, you are more of a jerk than I figured.

    If you forgot to address my points, you are more dense than I figured; if you are still ignoring them on purpose, possibly considering them "beneath" your intellect, you are more of a jerk than I figured.

    Either way I suppose there will be no fruitful discussion between us. Toodles.

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  17. #45
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Hiro Hayase's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin 42 Discussion / 43 Predictions

    Credits to 4chan for pointing out the foreshadowing and making this.


    I also agree that its too premature to be judging the mangaka based on this chapter. Blaming the author because the story did not turn out the way you expected it to or because it turned out the way you expected is very childish.

    Although, that being said the reveal was a bit sudden, however, we don't know what's going in either Reiner's or Bertholdt's head that lead them to this point. Perhaps they knew that they were running out of time and were already being suspected that they chose such a reckless course of action. Or was it fear that propelled them to act? The fear that they might end up like Annie if they stayed idle for too long and Ymir+Historia might expose them.

    Thus, it brings into question why are they so desperate to recruit Eren? What's so special about him that they would go to such lengths? Annie, Reiner and Bertholdt.
    Last edited by Hiro Hayase; February 16, 2013 at 06:39 AM.
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