Naruto 617 Discussion

[M3J]

Most likely, but it doesn't have to be generations later. Could be few years or decades later after the brothers started fighting.

[Hakuteiken]

I think there has to be at least a few generations past the sons of the sage. It could be either way, but since Uchiha stood out with their Sharingan on the battle field, and the eyes son of the sage possessed weren't quite the same with the Sharingan of this day, it probably evolved through genetic heritage over the time.
Not sure how much time did it need to pass, though.

[M3J]

What if the elder brother or Rikudou Sennin made it so that the eyes could evolve into Rinnegan, but over time it devolved into sharingan and needed more coniditions? I mean, we don't know anything but what Tobi told us, even the tablet wasn't shown.

Though, with the way "them" was used, the one/s who know all could be a person. If it was a thing, then "it" would be better because it can be singular or plural and refer to anything, like animals or objects. It's far more ambiguous than "them," in my opinion.

[EMS]

kishis still got alot important aces that can be a main key for this war and the future..
1.-yamato connected with that empty hashirama shell.
2.-kabuto is in izanami and unknown how powerful, kabuto will be after escaping and friend or foe.
3.-orochimaru is back and he might try to get his arms back from the dead god and(what will happen with previos hokages inside shinigami belly..
4.- the table that is in the uchiha clan village that rikudo sennin wrote himself.
5.-the scroll that got the power to change the war and the human that knows everything..
6.- sasuke looking the true behind everything since the begging.

there is alt interesting plot in naruto vs madara..

[Daniel]

What if the elder brother or Rikudou Sennin made it so that the eyes could evolve into Rinnegan, but over time it devolved into sharingan and needed more coniditions? I mean, we don't know anything but what Tobi told us, even the tablet wasn't shown.

Though, with the way "them" was used, the one/s who know all could be a person. If it was a thing, then "it" would be better because it can be singular or plural and refer to anything, like animals or objects. It's far more ambiguous than "them," in my opinion.

The Tablet was shown, you can see it in the link I post in my comment on the previous page. It is a person, the word used was "ningen" Human or Humans.

[so6pww]

kishis still got alot important aces that can be a main key for this war and the future..
1.-yamato connected with that empty hashirama shell.
2.-kabuto is in izanami and unknown how powerful, kabuto will be after escaping and friend or foe.
3.-orochimaru is back and he might try to get his arms back from the dead god and(what will happen with previos hokages inside shinigami belly..
4.- the table that is in the uchiha clan village that rikudo sennin wrote himself.
5.-the scroll that got the power to change the war and the human that knows everything..
6.- sasuke looking the true behind everything since the begging.

there is alt interesting plot in naruto vs madara..

1. from the last development, I think Yamato will be useful to Naruto now that he has the five elemental chakra. As a wood user, I think he was nerfed the minute Madara became Hashimara. However, he can help Naruto with mixing elements.

2 and 3. Kabuto might be the greatest twist.

- A first twist maybe that Kabuto had planned everything since he knew Sasuke, and he also knew that Orochimaru was inside Anko. What if Kabuto was also filling Anko with his own chakra, and that the Orochimaru we see know is actually Orochimaru and Kabuto together fooling Sasuke.

- What if in a different view, Orochimaru did not take his power, but rather took Kabuto with him.

The reason I am think this is that Kabuto came well prepared against the Uchiha. He knew his own weakness - the genjutsu. As a scholar and researcher, I would expect him to also know that the Uchiha have Izanami as a genjutsu that can beat his eye solution. Thus Kabuto could have just planned everything to force Itachi to put him under Izanami knowing that after Itachi's death, the only person Sasuke will need help from is Orochimaru. Thus by either filling Anko ith his own chakra, or Orochimaru taking Kabuto's power from him, he can play a foolproof game.

In this case, Sasuke might think he is going against Orochimaru, while actually, he is going Orochimaru and Kabuto. He will definitely loose his body in this case. Of course, I don't expect Kishi to cause such a twist as me, but it would be one hell of a twist to prove how Orochimaru get what he wants finally.

4. I don't think the table is an isssue. Sasuke went to Konoha with Obito after he got EMS. Thus Sasuke already know what he can know ith EMS. the table is in Konoha. Unless Sasuke unlock Rinnegan, he cannot read the table further.

5. Yes, a twist from the scroll. I think the scroll will reveal something about either the ultimate Jutsu, or the ultimate eye, or a sage mode. My opinion is that Kabuto also know the content - it might be about becoming like Rikudo.

6. You overdid here. Though Sasuke might be looking after the truth behind everything, using everything without framing it in Sasuke's context would be too far-fetched to me. Why a kid like Sasuke would want the truth about the whole world in the middle of a doubt about the Uchiha massacre. My opinion is that Sasuke in only interest in deciding on his revenge. In this respect, I think Sasuke want primarily to know everything about the Uchiha massacre.

====== Something you forgot and that everyone kind of disregards ====

A. The Senju Scroll of Sealing

When talking about Uchiha vs Senju, people Usually focused on the stone tablet. They go on saying that Rikudo made a mistake to give it to the elder son. However, I think it is because we only know the story through the eyes of the Uchiha, who are bent on power. As matter of fact, it seems that the ultimate strongest have always been among the senju - with an evidence from Hashi vs Madara. Taking this into account, I think the greatest twist in this series is how did the geatest Senju always beat the greatest Uchiha despite the asspul from the tablet.

My Answer is the scroll of sealing of the Senju clan. Similarly to the Uchiha stone tablet, it hold all the forbidden Senju Jutsus.

When Naruto stole it, it was said that Konoha would be destroyed if it fall in enemy hands. I think that this scroll contains all the asspul of the Senju clan, and given recent developments, I am pretty sure that Naruto will be given this scroll pretty soon. Then, we will know the story from a Senju point of view. Another possibility is that Tsunade give the story to Naruto as well. The reason is that if Naruto has to fight Sasuke based on a elder son vs younger son basis, Naruto need to know how the story goes, and what is the responsibility of his clan.

B. Naruto's complete origins

While people like to ignore Minato, I think the story would be too simplistic if Minato was from unknown family. Like the Uchiha, it is said that if you see Minato, you need to flee on sight. In fact, in the Uchiha case, it is if you are alone while for Minato, the number does not count. A prodigy like Minato cannot be born from a fodder clan based on what Kishi has shown so far.

I think one of the greatest twist in the story would be that Minato is from a descendent of the elder son. This will make Naruto a true pacifier between the two clan.

[Dattebayo!]

kishis still got alot important aces that can be a main key for this war and the future..
1.-yamato connected with that empty hashirama shell.
2.-kabuto is in izanami and unknown how powerful, kabuto will be after escaping and friend or foe.
3.-orochimaru is back and he might try to get his arms back from the dead god and(what will happen with previos hokages inside shinigami belly..
4.- the table that is in the uchiha clan village that rikudo sennin wrote himself.
5.-the scroll that got the power to change the war and the human that knows everything..
6.- sasuke looking the true behind everything since the begging.

there is alt interesting plot in naruto vs madara..

I'm betting the asspull for this one will be something along the lines of this :

Orochimaru's arms are *already* ok, because he was revived from anko who had the curse mark on her before the death god took the arms of the Orochimaru which fought the 3rd... easy asspull for Kishi, and less far fetched than many others he has used.

[Hakuteiken]

I'm betting the asspull for this one will be something along the lines of this :

Orochimaru's arms are *already* ok, because he was revived from anko who had the curse mark on her before the death god took the arms of the Orochimaru which fought the 3rd... easy asspull for Kishi, and less far fetched than many others he has used.

The Death God seals away the spirit, rather than the body, so, *normally*, such a revival through a new body shouldn't be possible. Otherwise, Orochimaru already changed a vessel after his arms were sealed away and nothing happened.
But yeah, if I had to get something out of nowhere to explain this, this could be it (=

[EMS]

I'm betting the asspull for this one will be something along the lines of this :

Orochimaru's arms are *already* ok, because he was revived from anko who had the curse mark on her before the death god took the arms of the Orochimaru which fought the 3rd... easy asspull for Kishi, and less far fetched than many others he has used.

nothing surprises me not more and as you said that could be a big posibility but i really can think that kishi will let all the previous hokages be in hell forever while naruto is a mild manga that love and talk not jutsu is important and everything always end up in a happy ending at least most of the time.

[mattiaildivino]

kurama's statement was nice,he finally likes minato and kushina. and the trick used to justify kakashi's kamui was great,I like this kind of things

[Dattebayo!]

The Death God seals away the spirit, rather than the body, so, *normally*, such a revival through a new body shouldn't be possible. Otherwise, Orochimaru already changed a vessel after his arms were sealed away and nothing happened.
But yeah, if I had to get something out of nowhere to explain this, this could be it (=

I would agree normally about the spirit etc most of the time... but Orochimaru has already shown that normal rules dont apply to him as we saw with Itachi's sword.. really he should have been pulled out of Anko still in the genjutsu... but he came out doing the gangham style dance...

[so6pww]

I'm betting the asspull for this one will be something along the lines of this :

Orochimaru's arms are *already* ok, because he was revived from anko who had the curse mark on her before the death god took the arms of the Orochimaru which fought the 3rd... easy asspull for Kishi, and less far fetched than many others he has used.

I think you are interpreting it in the wrong direction. The actual asspul would be that Orochimaru's arms are really damaged. This is asspul because it suggest that the reaper seal affect all the instances of Orochimaru in all the curse seal, and it is weird. Thus, discovering that Oro is fooling Sasuke would be logical than an asspul. Otherwise, why would he be still in Anko if he has also been sealed by Itachi.

[Hakuteiken]

I would agree normally about the spirit etc most of the time... but Orochimaru has already shown that normal rules dont apply to him as we saw with Itachi's sword.. really he should have been pulled out of Anko still in the genjutsu... but he came out doing the gangham style dance...

I know that but it'll probably be stated as a different thing than Totsuka Sword, if Kishimoto bothers to elaborate

[Dattebayo!]

I think you are interpreting it in the wrong direction. The actual asspul would be that Orochimaru's arms are really damaged. This is asspul because it suggest that the reaper seal affect all the instances of Orochimaru in all the curse seal, and it is weird. Thus, discovering that Oro is fooling Sasuke would be logical than an asspul. Otherwise, why would he be still in Anko if he has also been sealed by Itachi.

I would say you are doing th interpretation wrong how can someone have more than one soul? the reapear seals a persons spirit/soul but Orochimaru split himself over X amount of people using the cursed seal.. So it is the same soul, just split over many people.. but then the curve ball is thrown up that does this mean a proportion of his arms werent taken by the reaper because it was already sealed away by Orochimaru in other vessels ?

[so6pww]

What else is there to know about the massacre? Not sure how many times he can be told about that before he picks a side and sticks with it. It'd make more sense if he wanted to learn the truth about EMS and Rinnegan and the Jyuubi and the brothers and all of that jazz. Screw the massacre.

On most forum, I am usually said to hate Sasuke, but I think this view is wrong. It is cool to make predictions, but it is also fair to use the ground bases given by the author. Here, we have two facts: (1) the power of the scroll, and (2) Sasuke's need of information about whatever he want to know.
If we mix the two of them, I will not even bother discussing the subject, but if we are talking only about the information, then I can continue to say that Sasuke's fans are very poor in terms of discussion. Here is why.

The whole deal start with Sasuke's confusion even before he learned about the scroll:

As you can see, Sasuke's question are heavily related to Konoha and the Uchiha clan. That is why I don't understand why meeting these people has turned suddenly into random guessing in the fandom. The following show that the people Sasuke wants to meet are related to the Uchiha massacre and they know everything about it.

(a) Hint that the people are Sasuke's parents

(b) Hint that Sasuke wants to know the origins of the conflict - still his father as the planner of the coup should know the reasons. This even show that Sasuke was a bit changed by Itachi, and is not bent on revenge anymore.

Looking at it even closer suggests that Sasuke is going to meet his father and mother. The dialogues and the falshback, and the previous questions points to that. The following also show that all his about Konoha.

This image show what Sasuke means by everything in the current context.

As you can see, I was giving my arguments based on a fact. I don't care if Kishi blend things, or asspuls something else, but to my knowledge, there is no ambiguity in what Sasuke is going for. The people he is going to meet are Uchihas, and his parents are part of the crew.

I would say you are doing th interpretation wrong how can someone have more than one soul? the reapear seals a persons spirit/soul but Orochimaru split himself over X amount of people using the cursed seal.. So it is the same soul, just split over many people.. but then the curve ball is thrown up that does this mean a proportion of his arms werent taken by the reaper because it was already sealed away by Orochimaru in other vessels ?

Then, how did that soul escape Itachi's sword? Moreover, if the soul are the same, how does Orochimaru control many people at the same time?

The only reason I am fine with any result is that we are in Naruto, and everything can happen. However, if we consider logic, the asspul is that Orochimaru in Anko is affected by a seal that was perform many years after he was place in the curse seal. This is some weird logic - It is kind of saying orochimaru is omnipresent.