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View Poll Results: What is the Juubi gonna do now that it's not connected to Madara and Tobi anymore?

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  • FRACAS - it'll go batshit crazy and attack anyone

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  • It'll still listen to the Uchiha

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  • It'll go catatonic until third stage

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  • It'll remain catatonic from now on

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  • It's a misunderstood puppy like Kyuubi and is actually nice

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Thread: Naruto 617 Discussion

  1. #406
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattaildivino
    I hope this time we really will see how the massacre occurred! Itachi showed us a little bit,but danzo should have witnessed amaterasu/tsukuyomi and susanoo..also,Obito should have met danzo there.
    Ditto. I'm ready for several pages of not Naruto. SEVERAL. The longer the flashbacks the better. I don't care if it takes months before Sasuke gets into another fight. I just want to know everything there is to know about the coup, aswell as what Sasuke learns during his search for answers.
    Last edited by ninjabot; January 24, 2013 at 08:32 PM.

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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    That aside, Sasuke used sage mode flesh to make this oro, so I doubt its as limited as Minato and Kushina's last minute technique. It has to be linked to oro's soul right? It has his memories and all. Whatever, it doesn't need to make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    That aside, Sasuke used sage mode flesh to make this oro, so I doubt its as limited as Minato and Kushina's last minute technique. It has to be linked to oro's soul right? It has his memories and all. Whatever, it doesn't need to make sense.

    Thank you guys for these reminders. This bring back the issue of Orochimaru's arm. When Minato sealed himself and Kushina in Naruto, he place a portion of his chakra along with all their consciousness. While Kushina died naturally, Minato was sealed with Kurama. So why was Minato whole inside Naruto while Orochimaru is handicaped in his arms?

    I mean there no consciousness without soul. If Orochimaru's arms are lame because of reaper seal on them, then Minato should not be in Naruto after he was sealed with half Kurama. However, if Orochimaru is playing, then the whole thing make sense.

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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Sasuke meeting his mom and dad makes no sense considering they're dead. I doubt he'll listen to them 100%, considering that they could be biased. The one who knows everything being someone else or from another clan makes more sense as they're less likely to be biased and possibly alive. Hell, it could be Hiruzen's dad for all we know, considering his name was dropped when the Night of the Kyuubi flashback was going on. Or it could be an Uzumaki as well, considering their lifespan. Nothing was said that Uzumaki and Uchiha had problems with each other, just Uchiha and Senju likely because the ones who hired them made them clash into each other.

    The Uzumaki are known for longevity, and since Oonoki was able to survive for as long as he did, there could be some Uzumaki who were around since Madara's time or even before that.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Is this based on the soul echoes of Minato and Kushina? Those were based on chakra - not how much 'soul' was present. I don't think there's been anything in the manga to date that says that Orochimaru's current condition has any duration or time limit based on how much of his soul is or isn't bouncing around in there. If this reverse-seal Sauske did is some variant of Minato's soul-seal then the Pale Pervert's time limit is based on how much of his chakra he's got.

    Of course - by any measure he should have disappeared already. Minato & Kushina lasted for a few minutes. Orochimaru has to have been around for several hours at least and yet he's getting bigger, and developing squarer shoulders, and growing cloaks out of nowhere.
    I was just making a prediction :P I'm sure Oro won't even get another fight before dying again in a depressingly humiliating way.

  5. #410
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    E
    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    I was just making a prediction :P I'm sure Oro won't even get another fight before dying again in a depressingly humiliating way.
    For a third time?, first sasuke and then sealed by itachi , if oro died again, i. Hope he die. Fighting someone strong and if he die, he should stay dead.. kishi trashed oro in part 2 bad..
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Further explanation on chakra distribution and links

    I am just throwing an hypothesis here. Check the spoiler, and read to give your thoughts.


    Spoiler show


    Although, this interpretaion of mine is not welcome since I have it, I need to use it before I can give new intel.

    1. On this image, we have two separate black areas, separted with a white area that represent the air medium between naruto and his shinobi alliance ninja.

    2. In the left black area, we have Naruto's body and his inner person in terms of chakra. The big blob of chakra in which it is written "Naruto" represent Naruto's chakra source ( and perahaps Naruto's mind).

    3. In the left black area, we have the shinobi alliance ninja to whom Naruto gave his chakra. Each square box on which it is written "shinobi" represent the chakra connection point of a particular shinobi. Each white box in which it is written 'Naruto" represent a chakra connection that Naruto makes when he touches the shinobi and seal part of his chakra in him.

    4. The gears there represent the fact that Naruto establishes a link with each shinobi he touches.

    5. The chakra rays show that there is a link/connection between Naruto's chakra inside him and his chakra inside the shinobi. This illustrates Kurama's statement :"the number of link that Naruto can sustain is amazing". This means that Naruto does not merely give them chakra, but he is still connected to the chakra he gave them.

    Now, how this is important. I am only interested in one think here - which is the connection with Reaper dead seal and how Minato was able to talk to Naruto when the seal of Kyuubi broke.

    According to the same page above, the seal Minato used is the same as the seal that naruto used. This mean Naruto can speak within each shinobi from inside because Minato was able to speak to Naruto due to the same seal.

    Now, notice that Minato was within the reaper dead seal, and he was still doing things inside Naruto. Why?

    Using the fact that Naruto surpassed Minato due to the number of link he can sustain, this mean that actually, Minato was talking to Naruto from the Reaper's dimension, and Kushina was talking to wherever she was through chakra communication.

    This interpretation gives some sense into why Orochimaru arms would be lame while Minato was healthy inside Naruto despite both of them being sealed by reaper.
    Minato in Naruto was a mere projection while Orochimaru's technique actually sealed the real soul. Otherwise, Minato should have died inside Naruto the minute he was sealed by the Reaper.

  7. #412
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Actually, this issue of Fugaku letting Itachi kill him is fishy to me. While I don't want a speculation on this, I think that Itachi leaved his whole life in a Koto genjutsu. I think Danzou casted a genjutsu on Itachi , and also when Itachi was edo tenseied, he was again place under Koto after the crow has been plonged in Kyuubi's chakra. Thus, the whole Itachi's story seems fishy to me.

    Why would Fugaku, who has a good reason for a coup d'etat die without any fight? Seriously, the guys is the father of elite ninja, and his friend were Uchiha as well. There has to be another explanation. In their shoes, I would at least fight, especially when I have refused to hear Hiruzen.
    It's considerably doubtful Danzo could have put someone as skilled as Itachi under Kotoamatukami, especially since Itachi fully knew Danzo had taken Shisui's eye. Anyway, the reason that his parents accepted death was explained, for the same reason Itachi choose to wipe out his clan in the first place: doing so ensured that Sasuke would live on. The point was that they cared more about Sasuke then their own lives, just like Sasuke is shown caring more about Itachi then his own being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    I think Itachi was referring to Sasuke saying the MS unabled control over the Kyuubi, not blindness. Otherwise Sasuke asking "What do you mean?", wouldn't make sense. Only Sasuke acknowledged the blindness effect as the price fo "control the Kyuubi" thus Itachi state he did read the Tablet.
    I take it more as the way that Itachi started off that originally got him, since Sasuke's following comment wasn't given as a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    So that's why I think the "cost of MS" isn't mention in the Tablet, and the situation with Madara's body can mean the process he went through in geral, not necessarily reffer to Madara himself, but to the process itself. And if it was the Elder son indeed, then he did pass it down, in the very Tablet. The thing is one had to advance the Sharingan to MS then to Rinnegan to read it all, is like a quest. The part the Sharingan can read talks about the MS, then the MS part about the Rinnegan then the Rinnegan's about the 10 Tails. Remember the conversation between Sasuke and Fugaku about the MS? Sasuke asked what it was and Fugaku was aware of it, as the leader he must have read the Tablet, the problem was, for what we know, he never went beyond the normal 3 tomoe Sharingan.
    Some sort of cost had to have been mentioned, else reading the tablet wouldn't have allowed one to come to the conclusion about controlling the Kyuubi. And it is pretty strange for the information about MS to be passed down through generations from the era of the Rikudou Sennin, but only recently be discovered by Madara, who according to Itachi were the first to discover and which lead to the rest of the clan attempting to gain MS/EMS. If Madara truly was the first, then it would have been him who passed that knowledge down to the others. It also fits with what we were told and then saw from the Kyuubi, about Madara being the first to enslave it.

  8. #413
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I take it more as the way that Itachi started off that originally got him, since Sasuke's following comment wasn't given as a question.
    It's not given as a question because Sasuke reached that obvious conclusion, and he did at that moment, and not when he readed the Tablet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Some sort of cost had to have been mentioned, else reading the tablet wouldn't have allowed one to come to the conclusion about controlling the Kyuubi. And it is pretty strange for the information about MS to be passed down through generations from the era of the Rikudou Sennin, but only recently be discovered by Madara, who according to Itachi were the first to discover and which lead to the rest of the clan attempting to gain MS/EMS. If Madara truly was the first, then it would have been him who passed that knowledge down to the others. It also fits with what we were told and then saw from the Kyuubi, about Madara being the first to enslave it.
    Again that's why I think the "cost" and Kyuubi's control don't have to be present there, and aren't even always true. For example EMS can also control the Kyuubi's with the blinding side-effect. Another example seems to be Obito's case, although he only has MS and not EMS, Hashirama's cells nullify or decrease a lot those side-effects. After all he has been using Kamui for the last 17 years as much as Naruto Kage Bunshin.

    Kurama said Madara was the first to enslave him? I missed that. And Itachi didn't say Madara "discovered" the MS, he said Madara was the first to "awaken" it. Which is different. Madara might have been the first with enough skill to actually achieve it. Again Fugaku knew about it but didn't had it. Sasuke also found out about it as a child but if not for Itachi he migh have never had it. As for the rest of the clan, nothing garantees that other Uchiha always throughout their history didn't atempt to achieve the MS, but most couldn't, it's a rare and difficult ability to get (even if recently it's look basic hehe). Even after Madara only very few did it. That we know only 4, 6 if we count Kakashi and Izuna.

    ---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 AM ----------

    PS: As you can see here, Kumogakure tried to get the Kyuubi before Madara:

    http://i19.mangareader.net/naruto/52...to-2031863.jpg

    And nothing garantees that even them were the first. The truth is in Kurama's flashback with Madara, he was pretty sure of what he was doing, it didn't seem like he was "experimenting" to find out if the MS could control the fox. He simply already knew, and said Kurama was destined to be a slave to powerful eyes. He also talked about Kurama being merely a part of one being: the 10 tails. Which means Madara knew it all already. Which means he also readed the Tablet, but didn't write it himself, here:

    http://i15.mangareader.net/naruto/56...to-2929577.jpg
    Last edited by Daniel; January 25, 2013 at 12:11 AM.

  9. #414
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity llamapie's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Thank you guys for these reminders. This bring back the issue of Orochimaru's arm. When Minato sealed himself and Kushina in Naruto, he place a portion of his chakra along with all their consciousness. While Kushina died naturally, Minato was sealed with Kurama. So why was Minato whole inside Naruto while Orochimaru is handicaped in his arms?

    I mean there no consciousness without soul. If Orochimaru's arms are lame because of reaper seal on them, then Minato should not be in Naruto after he was sealed with half Kurama. However, if Orochimaru is playing, then the whole thing make sense.
    That was all inside of Naruto, its not the same level of a technique, if its related at all. If you think about it, it wasn't their whole bodies, just an image inside Naruto's soul.

    Remember people. Sasuke "ressed" Oro's body that Kabuto absorbed. What remains unexplained is how it has a soul and Oro's memories. Which I think is what you were getting at about the arm thing. If Oro's soul was sealed how is this version capable of moving at all?
    Give the best manga of all time some attention!

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  10. #415
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    KUCHIYOSE: RANDOM-BETWEEN-CHAPTER CLOAK-NO-JUTSU
    Meanwhile, Granny Cat is wondering why the rest of her curtains have suddenly disappeared. "What the-- who did that?!"
    Don't worry, Granny Cat, I am sure they will reimburse you the next time they are in your neck of the woods.

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    Whatever, it doesn't need to make sense.
    Adopting this attitude is an excellent way to get through many of the more, erm, random parts of the story without going nuts/banging one's head against the wall/bursting into tears.


    Speaking of beating one's head against the wall, I'm curious about the time frame. The war is in its second day/night, correct? This is quite a long arc, and I am having some trouble envisioning some of the lengths of time between various events in part II. For instance, how long has it been since the Kage summit and Danzou dying? It seems like it should only be a few days, but I'm not sure. How long was Orochimaru dead, anyway? How much time between Konoha getting leveled and the start of the war? I thought it was a fairly brief period, but Konoha's already got a lot of rebuilding done, even without Yamato. (Poor old Yamato...)

    It seems like everything in part II could have happened in as little as a few months, but I don't know. It really seems much longer to me. Perhaps even as long as a year? What do you guys think?

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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomerwedgies View Post
    Meanwhile, Granny Cat is wondering why the rest of her curtains have suddenly disappeared. "What the-- who did that?!"
    Don't worry, Granny Cat, I am sure they will reimburse you the next time they are in your neck of the woods.



    Adopting this attitude is an excellent way to get through many of the more, erm, random parts of the story without going nuts/banging one's head against the wall/bursting into tears.


    Speaking of beating one's head against the wall, I'm curious about the time frame. The war is in its second day/night, correct? This is quite a long arc, and I am having some trouble envisioning some of the lengths of time between various events in part II. For instance, how long has it been since the Kage summit and Danzou dying? It seems like it should only be a few days, but I'm not sure. How long was Orochimaru dead, anyway? How much time between Konoha getting leveled and the start of the war? I thought it was a fairly brief period, but Konoha's already got a lot of rebuilding done, even without Yamato. (Poor old Yamato...)

    It seems like everything in part II could have happened in as little as a few months, but I don't know. It really seems much longer to me. Perhaps even as long as a year? What do you guys think?
    I stopped being super analytical about Mangas/animes when I gave up on trying to fit every DBZ movie into the timeline. But ya I haven't had too much trouble explaining everything to myself in Naruto. When it comes down to it, though, you see all the contradictions and how things are VERY different from the start of the manga at least in terms of power. The 3rd took out the 1st and 2nd hokage, granted at a cost of his life but from what we're seeing lately he should have died in under 2 seconds. Yes then there is this whole Orochimaru thing, he was sealed yet exists outside the seal now, clearly a construction from his snake body but he should have no soul (that was in Sasuke's head and was sealed by Itachi) - So unless this is just a complex structure around some memories I don't think this Oro is anything but that. Sort of like a walking interactive encyclopedia of Oro knowledge.
    Give the best manga of all time some attention!

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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    That was all inside of Naruto, its not the same level of a technique, if its related at all. If you think about it, it wasn't their whole bodies, just an image inside Naruto's soul.

    Remember people. Sasuke "ressed" Oro's body that Kabuto absorbed. What remains unexplained is how it has a soul and Oro's memories. Which I think is what you were getting at about the arm thing. If Oro's soul was sealed how is this version capable of moving at all?
    The reaper does not seal the body. Rather, it seals the soul. What happened to Orochimaru was the consequence of losing the arms of his soul. In Naruto's body, Minato was standing with all his consciousness. Orochimaru said he sealed his senjutsu chakra in Anko, and he infused his consciousness in it. Minato was speaking in Naruto, meaning he also had his consciousness at that time.

    Strangely, Minato has his whole perfectly projection while the fact that Orochimaru is still lame mean his representation in Anko was also lame. Thus there has to be an explanation.

  13. #418
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    The reaper does not seal the body. Rather, it seals the soul. What happened to Orochimaru was the consequence of losing the arms of his soul. In Naruto's body, Minato was standing with all his consciousness. Orochimaru said he sealed his senjutsu chakra in Anko, and he infused his consciousness in it. Minato was speaking in Naruto, meaning he also had his consciousness at that time.

    Strangely, Minato has his whole perfectly projection while the fact that Orochimaru is still lame mean his representation in Anko was also lame. Thus there has to be an explanation.
    Honestly, that's some odd. Minato said that those anyone who get sealed by his shiki will stay in the shinigami's stomach forever. But in minato's case, it's different. His soul was eaten by the shinigami and yet he stays in naruto's mind for almost 16 years. Remember when naruto goes to almost nine tails transformation in his fight against pain? We've seen minato staring in a vast ocean while sitting on a rock. It seems to me that's the place were he watched naruto for almost 16 years. Minato knows almost everything through naruto.

    Maybe the best explanation is, minato is the one who created the shinigami. So he's somehow a VIP to shinigami's stomach.

  14. #419
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Ditto. I'm ready for several pages of not Naruto. SEVERAL. The longer the flashbacks the better. I don't care if it takes months before Sasuke gets into another fight. I just want to know everything there is to know about the coup, aswell as what Sasuke learns during his search for answers.
    I actually think the scene will switch to Taka & Oro completely, since this is the perfect occasion for a switch:
    Juubi is free to rampage, the connection is lost, and the two Uchihas are finally facing the Alliance by themselves. Pretty sure there is no best occasion for Kishi to show Sasuke, so he can show up in the final fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomerwedgies View Post
    Speaking of beating one's head against the wall, I'm curious about the time frame. The war is in its second day/night, correct? This is quite a long arc, and I am having some trouble envisioning some of the lengths of time between various events in part II. For instance, how long has it been since the Kage summit and Danzou dying? It seems like it should only be a few days, but I'm not sure. How long was Orochimaru dead, anyway? How much time between Konoha getting leveled and the start of the war? I thought it was a fairly brief period, but Konoha's already got a lot of rebuilding done, even without Yamato. (Poor old Yamato...)

    It seems like everything in part II could have happened in as little as a few months, but I don't know. It really seems much longer to me. Perhaps even as long as a year? What do you guys think?
    Probably half a year, if I remember correctly between the Rescue Gaara and the save Sauce arc only a week passed, then the Asuma battle after an unknown span of time, then 2 days of Naruto's training for his element and other 6, possibly more ( since Akatsuki had to seal 2 Bijuus ).
    So between the start of part 2 and the Kakuzu & Hidan final fight, likely only 3 weeks passed.
    Another week or two of Sasuke traveling with Taka and then Itachi vs Sasuke and Jiraiya vs Pein, 2 weeks of Naruto training for SM, Pein happens.
    Unknown amount of time ( no longer than a month imo, considering that Tsunade was in a coma ), then Kage Summit and the Armadillo arc.
    After this Ninja War.
    By being extremely loose with the time, half a year seems about right

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  16. #420
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member naruto78's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Honestly, that's some odd. Minato said that those anyone who get sealed by his shiki will stay in the shinigami's stomach forever. But in minato's case, it's different. His soul was eaten by the shinigami and yet he stays in naruto's mind for almost 16 years. Remember when naruto goes to almost nine tails transformation in his fight against pain? We've seen minato staring in a vast ocean while sitting on a rock. It seems to me that's the place were he watched naruto for almost 16 years. Minato knows almost everything through naruto.

    Maybe the best explanation is, minato is the one who created the shinigami. So he's somehow a VIP to shinigami's stomach.
    You seem confusing thing I think, minato was sealed in the god but before that he manage to seal himself a part of his chakra in naruto so he would be able to speak with him later. This is a sort of jutsu I guess, minato wasn't really there, it's just like superman's father, a bag of knowledge that can interact with naruto that may looks like he's real.

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