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View Poll Results: What is the Juubi gonna do now that it's not connected to Madara and Tobi anymore?

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176. You may not vote on this poll
  • FRACAS - it'll go batshit crazy and attack anyone

    90 51.14%
  • It'll still listen to the Uchiha

    10 5.68%
  • It'll go catatonic until third stage

    29 16.48%
  • It'll remain catatonic from now on

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  • It's a misunderstood puppy like Kyuubi and is actually nice

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Thread: Naruto 617 Discussion

  1. #391
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    ^ Uchihas? How? Most of them are confirmed slaughtered by Itachi and Tobito. And I doubt he'd agree to Oro ETing them.
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  2. #392
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted toussaintac's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    I see. So it's possible if not probable that he wants to talk with his mom and dad, then. That makes sense giving the questions. However, Wouldn't it make more sense to ask someone that's not biased? Wasn't his dad the leader of the clan? Wasn't he planning the coup? Why would they tell him anything that isn't biased? Will he revive them and then genjutsu them instead to find out the truth? That would make the most sense to me.
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by toussaintac View Post
    I see. So it's possible if not probable that he wants to talk with his mom and dad, then. That makes sense giving the questions. However, Wouldn't it make more sense to ask someone that's not biased? Wasn't his dad the leader of the clan? Wasn't he planning the coup? Why would they tell him anything that isn't biased? Will he revive them and then genjutsu them instead to find out the truth? That would make the most sense to me.
    Tell me who you think will not be biased in the process? Whose words will Sasuke respect more?

    In my opinion, the elders do not know more than what Itachi said, and what Danzou tell them. Rather than breaking the Reaper seal ( which I have nothing against), I think the evidence above point to Sasuke's parents. Why would Sasuke's father lie to him. He will tell him his point of view, and Sasuke will make his decision. Even if Sasuke would revive and genjutsus anyone, he won't learn more than what the person knows. Thus he will base his decision on what the person will say.

    Will his parents statement be the truth or biased? Did his parents knew everything, and did they really based their coup on solid facts? or where they being fooled by Madara in the Shadow? Who knows. In my opinion, they will only give what they knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    ^ Uchihas? How? Most of them are confirmed slaughtered by Itachi and Tobito. And I doubt he'd agree to Oro ETing them.
    You talk as if Sasuke care about edo tensei. Itachi was also edo tensei, and he talk to him. Have you seen ORochimaru through kunais or make kage bushin. The guys only uses forbidden stuffs. The minute Sasuke revive Oro who is considered sealed, he also make you question void.
    Last edited by so6pww; January 24, 2013 at 03:52 PM.

  4. #394
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    next chapter is the first one of volume 65,I look forward to reading it! I know I should regard more the last chapter of volume,but I started having more interests in the first one now

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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    next chapter is the first one of volume 65,I look forward to reading it! I know I should regard more the last chapter of volume,but I started having more interests in the first one now
    Probably because you can read the first chapter of the volume as a preview on the Shonen Jump page.:P

  6. #396
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    It doesn't matter if he was suprised or intrigued, what matters is that he didn't know about the blindness side effect of the MS but knew about the MS's power to control the Kyuubi. Here:

    http://i24.mangapanda.com/naruto/385/naruto-7794.jpg
    http://i24.mangapanda.com/naruto/385/naruto-7795.jpg

    Which means the Tablet (sharingan's part) talks about the MS but not of blindness.
    Had to be on the tablet, otherwise Itachi's comment about having read it wouldn't make sense in the context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    From Obito's and Madara's words it's implied that the Tablet is much older than they are. As I said, half joking, but I think now it makes all sense, is that the Elder brother, in his atempts to get more powerful, since he believed in power to achieve peace, went through a similar process to Madara's and wrote it down for his descendents, thus you get the "secret of his body".
    Obito's words perhaps, but the "cost of MS" and situation with Madara's body would suggest otherwise. The Elder brother shouldn't have been aware of MS and if he discovered the means to gaining the Rinnegan, that would have probably been pasted down instead of being discovered by only Madara.

  7. #397
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by toussaintac View Post
    I see. So it's possible if not probable that he wants to talk with his mom and dad, then. That makes sense giving the questions. However, Wouldn't it make more sense to ask someone that's not biased? Wasn't his dad the leader of the clan? Wasn't he planning the coup? Why would they tell him anything that isn't biased? Will he revive them and then genjutsu them instead to find out the truth? That would make the most sense to me.
    To me, it can only be his mother / father.

    What exaclty could they tell him?

    We never know.... there could be some heavy revelation upcoming regarding the whole thing.


    Why where the Uchiha away from the village the night Kyuubi attacked..... could it be that Obito set them all up from the start? Taking precautions to make sure that in the end.... if he failed to destroy Konoha, he would at least cause massive damage from the inside and lead to the wolrd war that was actually bound to happen until Itachi gave Obito an ultimatum....

    Obito made sure that many doors would be opened to him, so that he would have plenty of opportunities to make his plan reality. And framing the Uchiha could have been one of them. Right now we all think it was simply done because ''only'' the Uchiha can control Kyuubi, thus the Uchiha were blamed by the elders..... but Obito maybe had planned for this to happen in case he failed to destroy the village.

    Framing the Uchiha could have been his ''failsafe''.


    Outside of that..... Sasuke probably wants to know if Itachi said is true ;

    Itachi said that he now believed that him and Sasuke together could have changed the clan's resolution in the end, preventing them to take actions upon the leaf. Sasuke could possibly want to know if its true that he could have changed them or not.

    If it is true, it means that wiping the clan was not the best descision to take ; meaning the village failed and deserved to be obliterated - aka, taking revenge is now the descision to take as the village were wrong

    if it is not true, it means that Itachi and the village took the right descision.... as no matter what happened, the Uchiha would have kept going and would have caused the 4th shinobi world out of desire of leadership. Killing a few to save many was the only option. - aka, the village was right



    Depending on their answers, Sasuke could decide wether or not he continues with his revenge. He himself said it , he needs to have a complete view of what happened, in order to take the right descision, he cannot afford to be a child anymore because if he takes the wrong descision due to him being careless and hasty, he will make meaningless what Itachi endured for years.

    This page clearly shows that Sasuke wants to take the right descision so that Itachi's sacrifice isnt wasted



    The mystery of the Uchiha massacre has lasted for a long time, all it's truth will be revealed... no more lies.

    I dont think Fugaku will be biased.... he is dead, and given the circumstances, he likeky isnt at peace.

    He obviously did not want things to end the way they did. He knew Itachi was going to live a living hell, and that is why he tried right before dying, to free Itachi away from the remorse and fear of killing them, by saying that they were not going to suffer, that their suffering was nothing compared to what Itachi was going to face. He wanted the best for his son despite the circumstances, and it's the only way he was able to lift a little of the burden Itachi now had upon his shoulders.

    As a father, he likely regrets that things happened this way, as Itachi and Sasuke were going to pay the ultimate price of his failure.
    Last edited by insid3rkill3r; January 24, 2013 at 06:00 PM.

    My child, do not hesitate, it is the path you chose after all.
    Our suffering will only last an instant, it is nothing compared to what you will have to face.
    Our opinions may differ, but i am still proud of you - Fugaku
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    -

  8. #398
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by toussaintac View Post
    I see. So it's possible if not probable that he wants to talk with his mom and dad, then. That makes sense giving the questions. However, Wouldn't it make more sense to ask someone that's not biased? Wasn't his dad the leader of the clan? Wasn't he planning the coup? Why would they tell him anything that isn't biased? Will he revive them and then genjutsu them instead to find out the truth? That would make the most sense to me.
    What's the point in lying after you're dead? I'd imagine seeing Sasuke succeed Itachi in power would convince Fugaku to tell him the extra-doubly truth about the Uchiha/Senju/coup/massacre/etc. I'm ready for it to stop being a mystery.

    ---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I think there has to be at least a few generations past the sons of the sage. It could be either way, but since Uchiha stood out with their Sharingan on the battle field, and the eyes son of the sage possessed weren't quite the same with the Sharingan of this day, it probably evolved through genetic heritage over the time.
    Not sure how much time did it need to pass, though.
    Pretty much. But this also implies that there have been many instances of genetic 'stealing' between the sides of the Sages bloodlines since before the Uchiha and Senju. Maybe the two sides have been stealing each others' power to gain the Rinnegan since the ancient days of the oldest son's side of the bloodline having the spiral doujutsu. I've always thought it odd that Tobi thinks he knows how many 'sages' there have been (calling himself the 3rd).

    ---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

    KUCHIYOSE: RANDOM-BETWEEN-CHAPTER CLOAK-NO-JUTSU

  9. #399
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by insid3rkill3r View Post
    if it is not true, it means that Itachi and the village took the right descision.... as no matter what happened, the Uchiha would have kept going and would have caused the 4th shinobi world out of desire of leadership. Killing a few to save many was the only option. - aka, the village was right

    Depending on their answers, Sasuke could decide wether or not he continues with his revenge. He himself said it , he needs to have a complete view of what happened, in order to take the right descision, he cannot afford to be a child anymore because if he takes the wrong descision due to him being careless and hasty, he will make meaningless what Itachi endured for years.

    This page clearly shows that Sasuke wants to take the right descision so that Itachi's sacrifice isnt wasted
    While I agree with most of your analysis, I think this part is flawed. First, how Sasuke can prove that he can change his parent mind. Unless he has a Jutsu that can create the same seen with the same context as Itachi and Konoha, then run a simiulation, there is no way he can prove that he would have change their mind. In addition, the fact that his parent died, and that coming back will be in another time can affect their thinking on what happened many years ago.

    Moreover, and most importantly, if Sasuke were to be able to change the mind of his parent, that will not change the fact that Konoha and Itachi couldn't change their mind. This is turn show that Sasuke's success cannot be a reason for him to continue his revenge.

    If the revenge has to happen, then his parent must prove that they were a serious matter for their coup d'etat. This is the only possible reason that can allow revenge in an eye-for-an eye world.

    Quote Originally Posted by insid3rkill3r View Post

    I dont think Fugaku will be biased.... he is dead, and given the circumstances, he likeky isnt at peace.

    He obviously did not want things to end the way they did. He knew Itachi was going to live a living hell, and that is why he tried right before dying, to free Itachi away from the remorse and fear of killing them, by saying that they were not going to suffer, that their suffering was nothing compared to what Itachi was going to face. He wanted the best for his son despite the circumstances, and it's only the way he was able to lift a little of the burden Itachi had now upon his own shoulders.

    As a father, he must have regretted that things happened this way, as Itachi and Sasuke were going to pay the ultimate price of his failure.
    Actually, this issue of Fugaku letting Itachi kill him is fishy to me. While I don't want a speculation on this, I think that Itachi leaved his whole life in a Koto genjutsu. I think Danzou casted a genjutsu on Itachi , and also when Itachi was edo tenseied, he was again place under Koto after the crow has been plonged in Kyuubi's chakra. Thus, the whole Itachi's story seems fishy to me.

    Why would Fugaku, who has a good reason for a coup d'etat die without any fight? Seriously, the guys is the father of elite ninja, and his friend were Uchiha as well. There has to be another explanation. In their shoes, I would at least fight, especially when I have refused to hear Hiruzen.

  10. #400
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I know that but it'll probably be stated as a different thing than Totsuka Sword, if Kishimoto bothers to elaborate
    Being a fraction of a soul, Orochimaru has an extremely limited lifespan in his current form. This explains his attitude- not giving a shit about the war and not giving a shit about Sasuke's body; he has 0% chance of gaining from either, and is content with observing things that are happening after his latest 'demise' at the hands of Itachi. He's Uatu'ing out right now because he legitimately has nothing better to do.

    He only absorbed Kabuto's sage chakra so that he can do something awesome before his inevitable disintegration

    ---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    I think that Itachi leaved his whole life in a Koto genjutsu. I think Danzou casted a genjutsu on Itachi , and also when Itachi was edo tenseied, he was again place under Koto after the crow has been plonged in Kyuubi's chakra.
    I also think Itachi was Koto'd for a good long time, even after death. It's the only thing that makes his undying devotion to Konoha make sense. It would make Itachi 1000% more awesome to me, at least. I actually thought that Shisui casted it on him in order to force Itachi into helping him kill himself/ seal his remaining eye/ let Itachi gain the MS. But the Danzou scenario is just as likely, now that you mention it. I don't see why he would need to have it cast twice though, or how that would work.

    ....................Wonder how Shisui got the MS. Also, wonder who Shisui actually used Koto on while he was alive. It had to become legendary somehow.

  11. #401
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    Being a fraction of a soul, Orochimaru has an extremely limited lifespan in his current form
    Is this based on the soul echoes of Minato and Kushina? Those were based on chakra - not how much 'soul' was present. I don't think there's been anything in the manga to date that says that Orochimaru's current condition has any duration or time limit based on how much of his soul is or isn't bouncing around in there. If this reverse-seal Sauske did is some variant of Minato's soul-seal then the Pale Pervert's time limit is based on how much of his chakra he's got.

    Of course - by any measure he should have disappeared already. Minato & Kushina lasted for a few minutes. Orochimaru has to have been around for several hours at least and yet he's getting bigger, and developing squarer shoulders, and growing cloaks out of nowhere.
    Hidan... Naruto's ONLY real villain!

  12. #402
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Is this based on the soul echoes of Minato and Kushina? Those were based on chakra - not how much 'soul' was present. I don't think there's been anything in the manga to date that says that Orochimaru's current condition has any duration or time limit based on how much of his soul is or isn't bouncing around in there. If this reverse-seal Sauske did is some variant of Minato's soul-seal then the Pale Pervert's time limit is based on how much of his chakra he's got.

    Of course - by any measure he should have disappeared already. Minato & Kushina lasted for a few minutes. Orochimaru has to have been around for several hours at least and yet he's getting bigger, and developing squarer shoulders, and growing cloaks out of nowhere.
    That aside, Sasuke used sage mode flesh to make this oro, so I doubt its as limited as Minato and Kushina's last minute technique. It has to be linked to oro's soul right? It has his memories and all. Whatever, it doesn't need to make sense.
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    While I agree with most of your analysis, I think this part is flawed. First, how Sasuke can prove that he can change his parent mind. Unless he has a Jutsu that can create the same seen with the same context as Itachi and Konoha, then run a simiulation, there is no way he can prove that he would have change their mind. In addition, the fact that his parent died, and that coming back will be in another time can affect their thinking on what happened many years ago.

    Moreover, and most importantly, if Sasuke were to be able to change the mind of his parent, that will not change the fact that Konoha and Itachi couldn't change their mind. This is turn show that Sasuke's success cannot be a reason for him to continue his revenge.

    If the revenge has to happen, then his parent must prove that they were a serious matter for their coup d'etat. This is the only possible reason that can allow revenge in an eye-for-an eye world.
    I agree that his judgement could lilkely be influenced by the fact that he has seen what happened due to his descision.... but to some extent, he should still be able to judge wether or not Sasuke could have made a change.

    We do know Sasuke was special to Fugaku, sure Itachi was his pride but according to his mother, Fugaku only spoke of Sasuke when they were alone. I think we can already foresee that Sasuke could have made a change in the end.

    Yes i agree, but either way, i'm pretty sure it will come to this as it seems to be what Sasuke wants to know from them as the panel we got while Sasuke was talking about this was Itachi talking about Sasuke possibly making a change.

    So wether or not Fugaku's judgement is influenced by the current events, i still think that we will have to go through it anyways.




    Quote Quote:
    Actually, this issue of Fugaku letting Itachi kill him is fishy to me. While I don't want a speculation on this, I think that Itachi leaved his whole life in a Koto genjutsu. I think Danzou casted a genjutsu on Itachi , and also when Itachi was edo tenseied, he was again place under Koto after the crow has been plonged in Kyuubi's chakra. Thus, the whole Itachi's story seems fishy to me.

    Why would Fugaku, who has a good reason for a coup d'etat die without any fight? Seriously, the guys is the father of elite ninja, and his friend were Uchiha as well. There has to be another explanation. In their shoes, I would at least fight, especially when I have refused to hear Hiruzen.
    Fugaku and Mikoto were maybe placed under genjutsu.... we dont know. And even if not.... it doesnt mean Fugaku would have fought his own son. After all.... Itachi was at this point stronger than his father for sure since he did have the mangekyo. Fugaku may have known he was no match.


    Either way, Fugaku seeing Itachi siding with the village must have realised it was a loss cause. Seeing this means he likely realised that Konoha had been aware for a while that they wanted to start a rebeillion..... they wouldnt have been able to take over the village if the village knew of the upcoming attack.

    Fugaku likely decided to give in and die by his son's hand rather then fight his son only to be stopped moments later.

    My child, do not hesitate, it is the path you chose after all.
    Our suffering will only last an instant, it is nothing compared to what you will have to face.
    Our opinions may differ, but i am still proud of you - Fugaku
    .
    -

  14. #404
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    I hope this time we really will see how the massacre occurred! Itachi showed us a little bit,but danzo should have witnessed amaterasu/tsukuyomi and susanoo..also,Obito should have met danzo there.

  15. #405
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Had to be on the tablet, otherwise Itachi's comment about having read it wouldn't make sense in the context.
    I think Itachi was referring to Sasuke saying the MS unabled control over the Kyuubi, not blindness. Otherwise Sasuke asking "What do you mean?", wouldn't make sense. Only Sasuke acknowledged the blindness effect as the price fo "control the Kyuubi" thus Itachi state he did read the Tablet.

    Quote Quote:
    Obito's words perhaps, but the "cost of MS" and situation with Madara's body would suggest otherwise. The Elder brother shouldn't have been aware of MS and if he discovered the means to gaining the Rinnegan, that would have probably been pasted down instead of being discovered by only Madara.
    So that's why I think the "cost of MS" isn't mention in the Tablet, and the situation with Madara's body can mean the process he went through in geral, not necessarily reffer to Madara himself, but to the process itself. And if it was the Elder son indeed, then he did pass it down, in the very Tablet. The thing is one had to advance the Sharingan to MS then to Rinnegan to read it all, is like a quest. The part the Sharingan can read talks about the MS, then the MS part about the Rinnegan then the Rinnegan's about the 10 Tails. Remember the conversation between Sasuke and Fugaku about the MS? Sasuke asked what it was and Fugaku was aware of it, as the leader he must have read the Tablet, the problem was, for what we know, he never went beyond the normal 3 tomoe Sharingan.

    In a previous comment, in reply to Dattebayo I already explained how I think the Elder son was very aware of the MS. I think the Elder son's doujutsu was the first MS/EMS, given the pattern of his eyes. Here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    Also we don't know if the "sharingan" only appeared gerations later. What we know is that the Sharingan is an early stage of the Rinnegan, and for that matter the Sage himself might have pocessed at some point a similar doujutsu before developing the Rinnegan. Or "Sharingan" or "MS" might very well be what the Elder son called his own new doujutsu.

    PS: I remembered something very interesting that supports my theory. Check this out:

    Sharingan literally means "Mirror Wheel Eye" or "Copy Wheel Eye". The key word here is Wheel. MS means "Kaleidoscope Copy Wheel Eye" again Wheel.

    And what doesn the Elder's son doujutsu look like? Exactly a Wheel, here:
    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...stor_Anime.jpg
    Last edited by Daniel; January 24, 2013 at 08:28 PM.

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