Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/18/14 - 8/24/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 507 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3 11 12 13 14 15 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 270

Thread: Bleach 524 Discussion

  1. #181
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,044
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, but there has to be more to the whole zampakuto thing than the zampakuto just being foreign to the shinigami. Overall we have seen the link between zampakuto and shinigami to be extremely deep. If what we have seen with ichigo is to be relevant then a zampakuto even has an influence over the very reiatsu (quantity and quality) of the shinigami in question. In this regard while the zampakuto is given to shinigami perhaps the situation is that over time the link between zampakuto and shinigami becomes extremely deep, far more than what the current explanations suggest. Perhaps asauchi start of as foreign to shinigami but as the shinigami imprint the asauchi the asauchi does the reverse, imprint the shinigami with its own essence. Eventually the shinigami and zampakuto end up being by all intents and purposes a single being (which is perhaps why ichigo and aizen fused with their zampakuto in their transcendental forms).

    I think if we consider the first zanpaktou as such it becomes more clear.

    niyama ouetsu was a shinigami at one time WITHOUT a zanpaktou--- he was himself, and had his sprit. If we think of this mass of physical and spiritual energies as a mass of (bear with me) cookie dough with chocolate chips- then really all afro san did was invent the first cookie cutter.

    he shaped his spirit and materialized his spirit in the form of a zanpaktou - essentially making the first zanpaktou cookie.
    now, he streamlined the process so that others could also make cookies of various shapes and abilities based on the flavor of their spirits.

    so he made the asauchi- essentially they are blank cookie cutters in the shape of a zanpaktou.
    the dough- is all from the shinigami.
    the flavor is from the shinigmai.

    the essence of the zanpaktous shape- ie. a weapon, or materialization, is from the cookie cutter.

    I suspect that before the advent of his zanpaktou asauchi blades, that more outlandish forms of zanpaktou existed. perhaps not in the form of a weapon at all. though its pure speculation as we have no ultimate history record for ancient SS.

    I think that what afro san(I cant remember how to spell his name without googling it for the life of me)- I think what his training with ichigo is going to achieve is to allow them to create their own blades. he is going to show them how he made his cookie cutter, and in so doing they will end up making their own.


    Dammn-- Im hungry now. lol.

  2. #182
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,611
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I don't think Kirinji was Unohana's sensei at any point in the story. He doesn't need to be, if we consider the fact that Unohana wasn't a healer originally, but a criminal.
    By the way, from where did that 400 years number came from, hm?
    Well, kirinji did ask unohana on whether she had been appropriately using the techniques he taught her. I would argue that is enough to suggest he was indeed a mentor of sort to her 1000 years ago or so. I would think that after defeating the quincy 1000 years ago she moved on to heal people and was taught by kirinji is order to make up for how many people she killed as the worst criminal in the history of SS.

    ---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    I think if we consider the first zanpaktou as such it becomes more clear.

    niyama ouetsu was a shinigami at one time WITHOUT a zanpaktou--- he was himself, and had his sprit. If we think of this mass of physical and spiritual energies as a mass of (bear with me) cookie dough with chocolate chips- then really all afro san did was invent the first cookie cutter.

    he shaped his spirit and materialized his spirit in the form of a zanpaktou - essentially making the first zanpaktou cookie.
    now, he streamlined the process so that others could also make cookies of various shapes and abilities based on the flavor of their spirits.

    so he made the asauchi- essentially they are blank cookie cutters in the shape of a zanpaktou.
    the dough- is all from the shinigami.
    the flavor is from the shinigmai.

    the essence of the zanpaktous shape- ie. a weapon, or materialization, is from the cookie cutter.

    I suspect that before the advent of his zanpaktou asauchi blades, that more outlandish forms of zanpaktou existed. perhaps not in the form of a weapon at all. though its pure speculation as we have no ultimate history record for ancient SS.

    I think that what afro san(I cant remember how to spell his name without googling it for the life of me)- I think what his training with ichigo is going to achieve is to allow them to create their own blades. he is going to show them how he made his cookie cutter, and in so doing they will end up making their own.


    Dammn-- Im hungry now. lol.
    By spirit you mean the zampakuto spirits right? The issue at hand would be that the spirit would also be something with which shinigami don't start with. It is beings like the asauchi we see fighting renji and ichigo that ultimately become zampakuto like zangetsu or zabimaru. The asauchi we see are not things waiting to be given life by a shinigami's power and essence, they are already very much alive and waiting to take a form and a name.

  3. #183
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,044
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, kirinji did ask unohana on whether she had been appropriately using the techniques he taught her. I would argue that is enough to suggest he was indeed a mentor of sort to her 1000 years ago or so. I would think that after defeating the quincy 1000 years ago she moved on to heal people and was taught by kirinji is order to make up for how many people she killed as the worst criminal in the history of SS.

    ---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------



    By spirit you mean the zampakuto spirits right? The issue at hand would be that the spirit would also be something with which shinigami don't start with. It is beings like the asauchi we see fighting renji and ichigo that ultimately become zampakuto like zangetsu or zabimaru. The asauchi we see are not things waiting to be given life by a shinigami's power and essence, they are already very much alive and waiting to take a form and a name.
    by spirit i mean the shinigami personality that is them,,, and also the personality within or the non materialized zanpaktou-- in ichigos case it was zangetsu before ichigo could hear his name. it was still zangetsu, ichigo was just oblivious and zangetsus cries could not be heard. really that is kind of poetic and really sad.

    ---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

    the materialization into the external world is facilitated by what we call the zanpaktou-

    before that, the spirit of the zanpaktou was still there, as we saw in ichigos case.

  4. #184
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zaphkiel
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    10,640
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, kirinji did ask unohana on whether she had been appropriately using the techniques he taught her. I would argue that is enough to suggest he was indeed a mentor of sort to her 1000 years ago or so. I would think that after defeating the quincy 1000 years ago she moved on to heal people and was taught by kirinji is order to make up for how many people she killed as the worst criminal in the history of SS.
    I guess he was someone who made her transition easier, but I wouldn't say this makes Kirinji a more experienced Shinigami necessarily. They could be around the same age, and have joined the ranks even around the same time, but anything beyond that will be speculation. Not at least anything formal was suggested. They could even be like Byakuya and Yoruichi, who didn't have a master-student relationship, but Byakuya learned techniques from the latter.

  5. #185
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,611
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I guess he was someone who made her transition easier, but I wouldn't say this makes Kirinji a more experienced Shinigami necessarily. They could be around the same age, and have joined the ranks even around the same time, but anything beyond that will be speculation. Not at least anything formal was suggested. They could even be like Byakuya and Yoruichi, who didn't have a master-student relationship, but Byakuya learned techniques from the latter.
    I never quite mentioned their age though. Anyways, how would a non formal relationship work in regards to learning highly advanced medical skills? Kido in itself is all about meticulous control of reiatsu and applying said control for very specific tasks. More so, there is also the element of actual knowledge which should come along with the skills to heal. Unohana has to be actually familiar with every square millimeter of the human/shinigami body at the very least. Are we to believe unohana learned those in a fashion similar to yoruichi training byakuya in shunpo? At least shunpo is about being fast and repeating what would seem to be simple steps, it does not have anywhere near the complexity of kido/healing nor at large the same element of reiatsu control. The only way in which unohana would have learned how to be a doctor is basically the same way as anyone else, by sitting down and studying her ass of while an asshole teacher makes her life hell. I don't how any scenario in which the two of them are not sitting together in the same room studying endlessly is plausible in regards to what kirinji supposedly taught unohana. I guess there would be an awkward part of teaching medicine to the kenpachi however it does seem like kirinji has some strength to boast off so perhaps it is not that weird.

  6. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  7. #186
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,044
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I never quite mentioned their age though. Anyways, how would a non formal relationship work in regards to learning highly advanced medical skills? Kido in itself is all about meticulous control of reiatsu and applying said control for very specific tasks. More so, there is also the element of actual knowledge which should come along with the skills to heal. Unohana has to be actually familiar with every square millimeter of the human/shinigami body at the very least. Are we to believe unohana learned those in a fashion similar to yoruichi training byakuya in shunpo? At least shunpo is about being fast and repeating what would seem to be simple steps, it does not have anywhere near the complexity of kido/healing nor at large the same element of reiatsu control. The only way in which unohana would have learned how to be a doctor is basically the same way as anyone else, by sitting down and studying her ass of while an asshole teacher makes her life hell. I don't how any scenario in which the two of them are not sitting together in the same room studying endlessly is plausible in regards to what kirinji supposedly taught unohana. I guess there would be an awkward part of teaching medicine to the kenpachi however it does seem like kirinji has some strength to boast off so perhaps it is not that weird.
    I think you are right- she also could have learned from her zanpaktou- zangetsu seems to have a cosmic knowledge, and since unohanas shikai seems to be of a healing type, perhaps she learned some (not all) but some things from her zanpaktou, and also the royal guard seemed to have taught her somethings also.,

    for the most part I think you are right, hard study for like 99 % of knowledge gained.

  8. #187
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,611
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    I do wonder if zampakuto themselves can know kido the shinigami does not know. Its one thing for a zampakuto to know everything about the abilities and powers which are innate to it however kido is not quite in that category. Kido is not an innate ability to shinigami, it is learned through training. My expectation would be for zampakuto to know kido however only the ones the shinigami himself can use. Zangetsu has displayed knowledge however we know for a fact that zangetsu is aware of what is going on outside and most of the knowledge he has imparted has been connected to techniques he rules over.

  9. #188
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,044
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I do wonder if zampakuto themselves can know kido the shinigami does not know. Its one thing for a zampakuto to know everything about the abilities and powers which are innate to it however kido is not quite in that category. Kido is not an innate ability to shinigami, it is learned through training. My expectation would be for zampakuto to know kido however only the ones the shinigami himself can use. Zangetsu has displayed knowledge however we know for a fact that zangetsu is aware of what is going on outside and most of the knowledge he has imparted has been connected to techniques he rules over.
    well think about it this way- Urahara can Create his own kido. if he is smart enough to do that, why wouldnt his zanpaktou also be smart enough to know the fundamentals about how kido effects are created. If one knows the basics you can build on that.
    like chemistry, sure us newbys are lost and have to study, but after a certain level a chemist can start to create new things.

    Well, everything that a shinigami learns his inner spirit zanpaktou also learns. in addition zanpaktous (well in ichigos case) seemed to have at times a deeper understanding of what a zanpaktou could do, or could know in addition to the info they get from the host shinigami.

  10. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  11. #189
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sky Render's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    Spain
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,068
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    We don't know if Nimaiya invented zanpakutos themselves. He could have been just the inventor of the asauchi, thus giving Soul Society an easy, efficient way to forge new soldiers. Maybe some people in SS were able to forge swords themselves, without the need of any asauchi. I don't think Kenpachi had one, and we know for a fact that Ichigo didn't evolve his Zangetsu from an asauchi.. or does than tiny hilt count as one?

    I mean, I find it hard to believe that Yamamoto owes his Zanka no Tachi to this pimp XD

  12. #190
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,611
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    I still think it is entirely possible that ichigo had an asauchi all along. Asauchi are spiritual weapons, I don't think it would have been an issue to hide it inside ichigo's physical body and we have actually seen gigai keeping swords within them. If nimaiya is really the creator of the zampakuto then we have to consider the possibility of him being THAT old. It is entirely possible that something within the palace provides them with longevity after all.

  13. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  14. #191
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    I'm new at this blogging thing but I'm such a big fan of bleach I had to reply with my thoughts to see where it might go. I just found one of the posts here really interesting and since it was kind of what I was thinking as well so here it goes...

    Unohana’s sword is the strongest healing type sword. Which is why Unohana had to master the art of sword or killing. She technically can’t kill anything in shikai or bankai mode. To defend herself, she has to be extremely strong and skillful in using just a plain non shikai zan. Oh and by the way, she can die which is why deep down she has a sense of self preservation. Just like the Yama’s sword was the oldest and strongest fire type and Hitsugaya’s was the oldest and strongest ice type. Unohana’s zan just happened to be the oldest and strongest healing type. So here’s what I think happened: Zaraki challenged Unohana because she was uber strong, he was strong and fierce enough to warrant her using her bankai. Unfortunately, her bankai’s ultimate power was the ultimate healing technique: granting immortality. So picture this, imagine a double KO between Zaraki and Unohana. Zaraki stabbed Unohana through the chest but not deep enough to kill her and Unohana at the same time sliced Zaraki’s eye. The result would be a permanent wound on Unohana’s chest and a scar left on Zaraki’s eye. Additionally, since Unohana has no control over the healing power of her bankai her “sin” inadvertently granted Zaraki immortality.

    This explains why Yama didn’t want Unohana to fight the Quincies. She has the ultimate power to heal everyone but if forced to fight, she would “accidentally” grant the Quincies immortality. She is one of Juha Bach’s special war powers and probably holds the key to him defeating the Soul King… by granting himself immortality.

    So how did I come up with this conclusion? Take a look at Hanatarō Yamada’s shikai. The low key, cowardly 7th seat officer of the 4th division has a zan that heals when he cuts. Eventually it gets full absorbing all damage and then fires a one time shot that will actually hurt people. I’m guessing Unohana’s works essentially the same way except the only way she can kill or even damage anything is to not be in shikai or bankai mode. When Zaraki forced her into using her bankai to “stay alive” during their first fight, that’s when she instinctively slashed at his eye. Kind of an oops moment for her so she calls it her “sin”.

    ---------- Post added at 06:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

    How you fight and how you swing it… You don’t know how to use your zanpakuto! Ever noticed how Ichigo just swings his sword around while hollow Zangetsu uses the sash like a chain and spins the blade around? Zangetsu is teaching Ichigo how to use the sword, possibly to mimic his fighting style. Imagine the frustration and anger of the master when his student doesn’t listen. Get it? So once he figures it out, it’s a whole new level of connection. Double in power? Ichigo and his Zan as one? Maybe quadrouple? Who knows? Just a though. Maybe the Zangetsu does have his own unique power that he can only channel when him and Ichigo work as one. Can you imagine Zangetsu’s own bankai?
    Last edited by strawhatx10; January 25, 2013 at 09:08 PM.

  15. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  16. #192
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    105
    Post Thanks / Like

    Kenpachi and Unohana connection

    I have a feeling that Kenpachi is Unohana child, no proof just a feeling

  17. #193
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Manta33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    30
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    146
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    I like the idea about unohana's bankai but why would you go bankai if your weapon stops being a weapon. Her bankai might be more tied to her nature. Maybe she liked to fight so much that her bankai resurrects her opponent so that she kill him over and over. The other possibility is that she is his mother and that his dad was a quincy. So like Ichigo, when killed, he automatically subjugates spirit particles to restore himself, ie ichigonator. Or there is a relationship to her stabbing him through in the same place as her scar...either way I like the setup

  18. #194
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bergen op Zoom, The Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I do wonder if zampakuto themselves can know kido the shinigami does not know. Its one thing for a zampakuto to know everything about the abilities and powers which are innate to it however kido is not quite in that category. Kido is not an innate ability to shinigami, it is learned through training. My expectation would be for zampakuto to know kido however only the ones the shinigami himself can use. Zangetsu has displayed knowledge however we know for a fact that zangetsu is aware of what is going on outside and most of the knowledge he has imparted has been connected to techniques he rules over.
    We still know to little about the zanpakuto itself to even make a good solid basis for a theory. So far we always (at least those that i know and talked to) assumed that they are subjected to the shinigami and are a manifestation of their power. Earned through hard work and dedication as well as innate skill.
    Yet the Royal guard throws it all out the window. There is still something about the zanpakuto we dont know yet.

    A few things that stand out for me.

    - The zanpakuto are angry with Ichigo & co.
    - More zanpakuto can be created.
    - It seems that 1 of the zanpakuto clearly had a will of its own and kicked her master. Since he said there were only zanpakuto there.

  19. #195
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,535
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Bleach 524 Discussion / 525 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I still think it is entirely possible that ichigo had an asauchi all along. Asauchi are spiritual weapons, I don't think it would have been an issue to hide it inside ichigo's physical body and we have actually seen gigai keeping swords within them. If nimaiya is really the creator of the zampakuto then we have to consider the possibility of him being THAT old. It is entirely possible that something within the palace provides them with longevity after all.
    i know this is a noobish question but is ishida's bow an asauchi?

    im surprised no one has had a negative reaction to ichigos possible quincy powers

New Reply
Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3 11 12 13 14 15 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts