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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
1/ Zanpakuto's that are constant release types - i.e. Ichigo's/Kenpachi's do not look like regular katanas before being released for the first time
2/ Ichigo had his Zanpakuto before Rukia gave him her powers - fits with him being given an 'Asauchi' earlier in his life unknowingly - thus it had time to change shape as it adapted to his soul.
3/ Urahara made an Asauchi type, that looks different, and gave it to Ichigo earlier.
4/ Giving someone else your power does something weird to the Asauchi/makes a new type/look different?
5/ Ichigo doesn't have an Asauchi (different from 3 in that Urahara wouldn't have made whatever it is).
I still like the idea of number 3
Thanks for that Beatrice,
SO Ichigo had an Asauchi at the same time as he had Zangetsu - the Asauchi from Rukia - but Zangetsu from where?
Again suggesting, to me at least, that Ichigo's Zanpakuto never was an 'Asauchi' to begin with...
Isshin is a Shinigami and the father of Ichigo and by chance is also able to use Getsuga Tensho, Engetsu and Zangetsu.
When Rukia gave her powers to him, his body remembered just as it did with Blut and the sword he got from Rukia automatically transformed into Zangetsu.
So to say, a part of Isshin of course lies within Ichigo as they're father and son thus having similiar souls yet being different thus Engetsu is living on inside Ichigo but partially only as Ichigo still has a different soul afterall, changing Engetsu to Zangetsu within him.
Just a wild guess.
I don't think a ichigo could have just remembered having a zampakuto in the same way he remembered blutz. The issue with zampakuto is that they are beings in themselves who start out as separate from shinigami. In this regard any scenario of ichigo not being given an asauchi like everyone else implies that either ichigo or his parents birthed the asauchi to some degree. I wonder if zampakuto can spawn asauchi though. Perhaps ichigo's own zampakuto came from his dad's zampakuto to some degree?
Seeing the chapter it is a tad strange ichigo had a sword when he just acquired his powers though. Wouldn't rukia have found that to be a tad strange to begin with? Of course, it is entirely possible she herself did not quite understand zampakuto to begin with so she simply didn't have the working knowledge to find the incident all that weird (or perhaps there was so much weird around it that she missed that part).
Good point Beatrice, some shinigami go to SS after death, and others inherit powers from shinigami parents. So maybe it is a blood thing.
Or, Ichigo subconsciously made his own Asauchi using his dormant Quincy and Fullbring powers. Quincy's can gather reishi and Fullbringers can bring out abilities, that combined with his shinigami blood possibly did something?
One thing to note is that Ichigo never seemed to have Zangetsu until Urahara trained him to achieve Shikai.
Or it was just Urahara and maybe Isshin's doing as well, given that Urahara has been in the King's Realm he might've learned to make an Asauchi as he's obviously learned some things from there already.
Last edited by Notak; January 21, 2013 at 09:57 AM.
I actually like the idea of ichigo inherating zangetsu from Isshin... i mean they are both so similar that there blood relation also relates too there souls. Ichigo's sould resembles his fathers which would explain why they have the same techniques... i mean so far as we know, they are the only ones able to use an ability that goes beyond bankai. so you can kinda say that Zangetsu is also Engestu's son. And we don't know how zanpaketou and asauchi are effective when it comes to shinigami that are born and not just brought too SS through death.
What about Ginjo then?
What if Urahara made the Hougyoku first, the king saw the potential it had and asked Urahara for a copy...
What if the reason his eyes look like transcendental Aizen's is that the king did as Aizen did with Urahara's first Hougyoku?
As I said, unlikely... but it certainly would be an unexpected twist...
One problem with the Hougyoku being based on the Soul king (or my silly idea above) is that it is the pinnacle of Urahara's inventions - and, so far, is not stated to be a copy/based on the ideas/concepts of anyone else...
For me it's not a question of where he got it, it's where did Rukia get her replacement
When she plunged her Zan into Ichigo to transfer her powers to him, her Zan was consumed in the transformation and her impressed on the asauchi thing was erased and replaced by Ichigo's. (Even after Byakuya cuts the blade in half, he pulls the same sword (rukia's) from the Box to reclaim his own powers). Urahara does not completely cut it all away either, it's cut down to the handle, so all along Ichigo is always using the same original Zan, ie the one he took from Rukia.
In the opening scene you do not see her Zan again and won't do till after she gets her powers back after the SS Arc.
Now did she get another Asauchi to replace her consumed one?
I think the idea of the Asaurchi goes something like "taking up the sword, to fall by the sword" so basically a "being" is formed but 1st you have to form a bond with said "being" which in turn will do its best to "protect" the person holding the sword.
But what makes ichigo different is he was forced into remembering his heritage or his soul was forced into it.