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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
and if this thread is boring or useless to some of you why do you come? skip it.
im not saying naruto needs to have it all but he needs to have a few strong points cause he solely relies on kyuubi and sage mode to win fights while ninjas hes ''surpassed'' have made it this far relying on their own power and without those powers hes a chunnin level nin at best
---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------
yeah naruto hasnt shown the strength of heart to go through with a kill so in a sense he both strong willed but at tinmes you have to bend that will to see to the greater good and the needs of others around you. he decided not to kill nagato before he ressurected everyone so if nagato was only bluffing the nice shit and came back again theyd all die. breaking your word shows just as much strength as keeping it in this situation. jiraiya went for the kill even though he preached talk no jutsuQuote:
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 23, 2013 at 10:28 PM.
I agree with you, Kid chameleone. I am disappointed that Naruto has to rely on the Kyuubi's chakra to defeat the bad guys, I mean, that's the creature who killed his parents and now he's had a sort of change of heart? Kishi should've gave Naruto more techniques when he came back from training with Jiraiya, it's time Naruto does more than the same old attacks, he has a lot of potential. Maybe there should be another time skip, where we see not only a stronger Naruto, but more of a tactician, skillful, knowledgeable Naruto. With awesome new jutsus.
yeah like naruto potential is limitless. even without the kyuubi or sage mode he'd still be a power house with his natural abilities if he worked on them. if he used his clones, maybe learned some wind jutsu and 1 or 2 uzumaki sealing jutsu he'd be almost unstoppable, he'd he constant distractions from his clones and the wind jutsu and while the clones are attacking he can have like 5 in a pentagon around the enemy sealing their movements THEN he finishes with the rasengan. thats what i was expecting in the story cause it was shown in a way that we should expect it in the future not to mention in one of the interviews when kishi said naruto had a blood line which gave the impression he may use it in battle.
why even bring it up if it isnt even relevent to the story its just there for a deeper connection to sasuke and make their fates seem ''pre-determined'' even though things would still be the same whether naruto was senju relate or not. why cant he just be his rival? why does everything naruto does have to be preordained why cant he just be a jinchuriki? why does he have to be the child prophecy too? if nagato was the sole child prophecy itd make more sense casue if he went through with killing everyone he'd of actually destroyed the world as konoha is a huge force in this army. naruto shouldve just been the one to show him the light, he didnt have to be the savoir its uncalled for and unnecessary. why cant he just be a regular nin stuck in a sticky situation? why does he have to be ninja jesus? you dont have to be chosen by destiny to win a fight, be strong or take lthe role of the leader those are qualities you gain through hard work and dedication to the art and craft of being a ninja which naruto is lacking. his missing the big picute which is you have to be well rounded to be a good ninja. having one skill and one skill alone doesnt make you a good ninja it makes you vulnerable because it lets people know where to target and what to look out for : his rasengan and kyuubi/sage modes. for rasengan just grab his wrist and keep him at a distance. for kyuubi mode learn the art of sealing jutsu( jiraya made a tag sealing kyuubi chakra, not to mention sasuke sealed it too) and for sage mode you just have to keep him at a distance and wait it out. naruto is a one track fighter and the fact hes got away with doing the same thing for like 5 years amazes me as there are ninja like shikimaru, kakashi and gai who are able to fight on par with akatsuki level nin with smarts and skill where as naruto has done the same thing over and ove and needs a power up to compete with the same people, fighting nin who clearly out level him in smarts and ability not to mention years of battle experience yet they get hit with the basic bait and switch -.- which again, naruto is known for
if wind was a long range chakra type itd make sense if naruto didnt use it much but its close range, his PERFECT fighting type, like honestly him and wind go together like pb and j. why have him go through all that just to get a new rasengan? why not just make it an upgraded version instead of giving him the ultimate ability to not use? and i know hes not the sealing jutsu type cause that takes brains but he can learn one or two its not impossible... i mean he'd have to actually be mentally retarded if he couldnt figure out how at least 1 works he trained with jiraiya for 3 years and he knew a multitude of jutsu and fighting types. that fact that naruto came back the way he did is like wtf!? he learned rasengan in like 3 months and yet he can wrap his head around any other jutsu? man like if a kung fu master known around the world offer to train me for free id bust my ass off and not question a word he said but i guess that is the case seeing as jiraya taught naruto how to be a master in talk no jutsu
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 24, 2013 at 07:57 AM.
That's what baffles me, Sasuke stopped being unique, being new the moment he obtained Mangekyo, the fights afterwards are on Naruto's level, if not less ( I'm looking at you, Kabuto vs Uchiha bros ) but I still see people talking about him like yesterday he fought his fight against Deidara ( absolutely one of the best fights ), and not against Kabuto.
The last "new move" non-Sharingan related was Kirin, again against Itachi, so its kinda biased to say Sasuke is "new" when Naruto is the one inventing new combinations and jutsus even now.
And using Kyuubi against someone possessing a Rin'negan, the most haxed Sharingan in history, 6 tailed beasts, Gedo Mazou and Hashirama abilities isn't? Sasuke couldn't compare in a straight-out fight, 1 on 1, against Danzou which, even with his power-ups, still was a 70+ year old man.
Do we wanna compare a fresh 16 year old Uchiha against a 70+ modified nobody?
By what standards? Without Kyuubi Naruto is firmly above Kage level thanks to Sage Mode, compare him to Jiraiya ( which was, let's not forget, 50 years old ) its unfair, since he's a 16 year old boy.
If we talk about the number of jutsus, Naruto is number one, he has like 1938930 Rasengans and luck its very debatable, as for power-ups he had Sage Mode firstly, then Chakra Mode, lastly Bijuu Mode.
Considering he had 20+ fights, I don't think he lasted that long only thanks to power-ups
yeah but those are the same jutsu though, just variations and you need to get close to use it. im saying he needs to work on everything cause picture him fighting a nin like deidara or sasori who can both use long distance to its full potential. how in the hell would naruto get close to deidara? plot protecction and him doing something stupid instead of bombing the shit out of naruto. sasori has iron sand, flames, water and 300 puppets, how would naruto get close enough to use rasengan? sage or kyuubi mode powering up instead of him thinking of a strategy like sakura and chiyo.Quote:
naruto needs to be whole cause even you must admit, if he lost the kyuubi or sage mode itd be game over. he has no base skills to lay back on... whats he gonna do if hes loses the kyuubi? go back kage bunshin and a regular rasengan? against someone like obito, madara or akatsuki level nin hed get killed twice before he hit the ground
---------- Post added at 08:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------
your forgetting that naruuto has bee with him and a near infinite source of chakra helping him while sasuke only has his eyes. if naruto gets knocked out kyuubi takes over and if sasuke gets knocked out hes dead so like sasuke may have his hax but compared to having a seperate being inside you thats saves you and heals you whenever is a bit more haxed than sharigan and sussannoo. susanno hurts the body, kyuubi doesnt he could spam kyuubi mode for a whole battle if he wanted too and still leave at 100% strength cause hes not using his power hes borrowing itQuote:
Do you believe Sasuke is a match against Akatsuki-Level-Ninjas without his Sharingan and/or CS?
(Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. Maybe I missed the subject.)
Likewise Deidara and Sasori are both weak in close range, so the situation is the same.
The key point is that the difference in power between Naruto and those two in close range far exceeds the difference in power between them in long range.
Naruto without Sage Mode and Kyuubi is a solid elite-level Jounin, let's not forget that, without Kyuubi and Sage Mode, he destroyed Kakuzu, story-wise.
He also showed impressive speed, and was never overwhelmed since the Sasuke fight ( which people insist gauges the abilities of the two, not counting the fact that Naruto grew immensely from that ).
If he loses the Kyuubi he has Sage Mode, which puts him firmly above Kage-level status, and Akatsuki-wise he would be inferior only to Nagato and Itachi.
Also saying that all he has is Rasengan and Kage Bushin is wrong, oh so very wrong.
Let's make a list of Naruto's jutsus without counting Rasengan variations and eventual combos, shall we ?
-Kage Bushin + Tajuu Kage Bushin
-Rasengan + Variations + Combo with KB
-Kuchiyose no Jutsu + Food Cart Destroyer
-Torii Seal ( the one he used on Kyuubi )
-Academics jutsu + shunshin
this without counting Sage Mode's various powers, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
Now let's compare him with Itachi ( without Mangekyo ) :
-Kage Bushin + Crow Bushin
-Unnamed Suiton against Kakashi
-Suiryudan no Jutsu
-Gokyakuu no Jutsu
-Phoenix projectiles ( the one he used against Bee, kinda forgot the name )
-Housenka no Jutsu
-Kuchiyose no Jutsu
-Academic jutsus + Shunshin
Now let's see Sasuke ( without Mangekyo )
-Chidori + Variations
-Gokyakuu no Jutsu
-Goryuuka no Jutsu
-Hosenka no Jutsu
-Fire Dragon no Jutsu ( the one he used on Oro )
-Kuchiyose no Jutsu
-Academic jutsus + shunshin
Naruto has 10, Itachi has 11, Sasuke has 12, key difference is that both Itachi and Sasuke have clan jutsus, meaning if Naruto would've had his parents or scrolls of them left he would've learned a lot of Fuuinjutsus and possibly Hiraishin.
I don't see all that difference, do you?
Sasuke didn't have help ?Quote:
-Orochimaru against Itachi
-Taka against Bee, thrice
-Double kill avoided thanks to Gaara against A
-Zetsu saving him against Mei
-Obito saving him against Oonoki
-Karin healing him against Danzou
-Itachi babysitting him against Kabuto
Even though he is Minato's son, he lacks his intellect and natural physical gifts. He's tougher than his father, has a larger natural chakra supply, and I wouldn't doubt if he was physically stronger, but he needs at least Sage Mode to be up in the upper echelon of Shinobi.
IMO, the Kyuubi should have been taken from him and his Sage Mode should have advanced even further. With more Futon Jutsu and Uzumaki techniques he would have had a diverse arsenal to rival Sasuke. His continued use of Summons would also help, something he hasn't done since the Pain Arc. Perhaps give him Hirashin, and then he'd be damn near unstoppable.
---------- Post added at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 AM ----------
1) Vs. Bee: He was injured and was testing out his new abilities. Got his ass handed to him for the most part. No time for him to create new techniques considering he wasn't even fully recovered from his fight with Itachi yet.
(LARGE TIME GAP: During this time it would seem Sasuke trained a bit, acquired his Hawk Summon, and traveled the world with Obito)
2) Vs. the Kages: He fought indoors, and had to use his MS abilities or he would have been killed in minutes. Still relied on his Raiton techniques.
3) Vs. Danzou: Sasuke's most underrated fight by far. His true genius and battle prowess shined through here. Pushed Danzou to the brink, displayed an advancement in Sharigan techniques like he did vs. the Kages. Displayed a new summon, and shredded Danzou at nearly every turn. (And keep in mind, this fight was moments after fighting the Kages).
5) Vs. Kakashi/Naruto: He was exausted, injured, and going blind. Not much here.
(TIME GAP: He is recovering from his battles and surgery on his eyes. Not sure how long this is.)
4) Vs. Kabuto: One of the worst fights in the manga. Largely on the defensive while taking orders from his brother. Sasuke is a killer, and since Itachi told him he couldn't kill Kabuto, it's not like he could display much here.
As you can see, since fighting Itachi, Sasuke has had only one major lay off where he could actually train and acquire new techniques, and he apparently in the time period he went somewhere to sign a new summoning contract. As for his fights, there wasn't much room for ingenuity IMO, given who he was fighting and the circumstances he was fighting in. Also, most of these fights allowed him to improve his MS abilities, which should count for something. Would you drive your 1998 Volvo if you just got the keys to a brand new Ferrari?
(also since they can do that how awesom would it be if kyuubi controlled a clone so he and naruto could both fight at the same time! but again thats never gonna happen cause naruto doesnt think that hard on his abilities and their potential)
guy its not the number of jutsu its how they are used and how they can benefit you in battle. what good is rasengan if you cant get close to them? hes a pure close range fighter and that puts him at a disadvantage. why not work on your other stats to make yourself whole? no other ninja in that power bracket has broken stats like naruto.Quote:
sorry he was using kyuubi chakra. and naruto is not near jounin level without kyuubi and sage mode are you serious?
his speed is not that quick
his taijutsu is nothing to brag about
his ninjutsu (outside rasengan) is abysmal
his thinking skills cant go past bait and switch
he needs power ups to compete, when kakashi, shikimaru chiyo and saukra all beat akatsuki members without the need for mega boosts of power just their own skills and abilities combined with thought and action. naruto doesnt think about strategies or battle sense he just spams rasengan till he hits and thats the truth of the matter. if he was truly a well rounded nin and joounin level as you say he wouldnt have needed to rely on one move and power ups hed already have a number of skills by now that he could fall back on and he wouldnt need kakashi, itachi the fox holding his hand in this war
---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------
i dont see why he cant improve. people say that would be changing naruto but its not its a sign that hes grown and maturing as a ninja. the fact that he hasnt done a new strategy or tried something new since part 1 just limits his character tremendously and marks him as an idiot and an easy target since you know what hes gonna be coming at you with and since hes weak to genjutsu why not just pop one off and kill him?... oh wait, plot protection
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 24, 2013 at 09:04 AM.
Both are riding Ferraris, yet only one is bashed for it
He developed a throwing FRS for it.Quote:
He has KB and summons to fight at long range. How is that bad? How is that different from Susano'o spam? What long range jutsus Sasuke has, Gokyakuu no Jutsu?
Or the almighty Chidori senbon
The Kyuubi chakra usage was minimal, and even then it was because he arrived half-exhausted since he kept training for FRS.Quote:
As for Naruto's level, already in the Kakuzu arc Kakashi admitted being inferior
Proof that his speed isn't "that quick"?Quote:
I remember him keeping up with Deva Realm in Base, and him doing a super-fast shunshin to save Sakura.
His ninjutsu abysmall? Maybe I missed him mastering an A rank ninjutsu, at 12, in a few hours
His thinking skills allowed him to outsmart several opponents and exploit weaknesess he's not intelligent, but he's pretty smart.
Kakashi never beat any Akatsuki one on one, and when he wounded one it was either by sneak attacks or haxed abilities.
In the war, in case you missed it, its Naruto holding everyone's hand and not the countrary, which is pretty ridiculous
And I already disproved that he "relies on one move" or that "he relies on power ups", considering he already showed to be pretty strong without the Kyuubi helping him.
You can think otherwise, and I respect your opinion, but facts says that Naruto is way more than you think and give him credit for.
He's not perfect, not by a long shot, but he's only 16
yeah this is seriously an underrated fight he went balls out did beat danzou at every turn. everytime danzo tried something sasuke shit on itQuote:
breaking danzos seal with will power
beating dnazos summon with the fire justu was genius
and not to mention he made him beleive he still had an eye open by timing a perfect genjustu which he was garbage at and danzo laughed at him for it not being as strong as itachis.
but when naruto and kyuubi become bff in 2 seconds and naruto finishes bijuu dama without fully mastering it in training, thats all good though but when sasuke fights a battle to the death and barely comes out on top hes hax and op lol
Naruto isn't jounin without Kyuubi or Sage Mode. He did use Kyuubi's chakra against Kakuzu though, I don't think he could have done FRS on his own chakra, especially when he looked tired. At best, he and Sasuke would be chuunin without their respective power, although Sharingan is Sasuke's own power. Both would also still be dangerous, just not quite as dangerous.
Remember when Naruto and co. encountered the Rain genins during the Forest of Death exam? Naruto couldn't use Kyuubi's chakra or had decent chakra control but he still kept fighting, and still pulled everything off without a problem.
Hell, even with Orochimaru's seal Naruto still got better at walking on water, which would be impressive for him. Once Jiraiya removed the seal, Naruto had no problem walking on the water. Plus, Naruto finding it hard to do one handed rasengan makes sense since it requires focus, something he lacks. If it was a matter of chakra control, it doens't make sense because Naruto's chakra control should be pretty good by now. Not quick rasengan good, but he should be capable.
As we saw when he fought Nagato, Kishi restricts Naruto. He let Naruto grow, and then gave him a shrinking spell that made him rely only on Kyuubi's chakra. Same with Sasuke - even with Sharingan he still used his own skills but now, it's just Susano'o.
THATS ONE JUTSU! HES GOOD AT 1 JUTSU AND THAT MAKES HIM AN EXPERT AT JUTSU? he only knows two moves and they are both close quarter moves... yeah he's amazing at jutsu and just cause he learned the rasengan quick doesnt mean hes good at jutsu it means hes good at ONE jutsuQuote:
kakashi was shown to fight hidan and kakuza on par before naruto came so its safe to say hes capable of taking an akatsuki member and if it werent for yahiko pains op powers and composite pains ambush he probably wouldve done serious damage to yahiko
look at the other 16 year olds his age. sakura, sasuke, lee, neji r.i.p all of them made it this far without super powers ups just training so why cant naruto? he has wind and is an uzumaki that6 should be enough but it isnt apparentlyQuote:
both of them were built up to be great but kishi gave them forget no jutsu and now theyre stuck doing the same things they knew before and cant seem to do anything new
this is so true too. both are rippin it in ferraris but look at sasuje and naruto are portrayed. like if they were both pro car drivers naruto would be the one doing the same tricks which is why no one likes his shows and bitches about him but sasuke has a new trick every show which is why people go to his shows and like him more. naruto is just a boring fighter, people wanna see versatility from him rather than new rasengans you cant do the same trick over and over and expect people to react the same each time you have to switch it up to keep interests and appeal which naruto isnt doing. sasuke has a new move every fight but naruto just does rasengan. its boringQuote:
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 24, 2013 at 09:31 AM.