Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from

[Kid Chameleone]

people are so hyper sensitive of naruto its ridiuculous like i know if you read my first post i may come off as bashing or hating but if you read my other ones then you might have a better idea of what ive been trying to say. all i did was bring up a few character flaws, never said he was terrible or bashed him just constructive criticism, every character need s to improve in some way but for naruto to be the main character i dont feel like hes fully qualified to be the leading the army right now and i think if it werentfor power ups and plot protection he'd been killed

@ Roman

1. i said his fights were dumbed down, easier for him. everyone he fought was hyped to the point of no belief but of course it came down to kage bushin, rasengan as usual

2. yeah he is pretty much jesus without effort, first he was just a jin then he got sage mode, his clan suddenly became known for healing and sealing, he and the kyuubi became bffs in one chapter not to mention child prophecy, you dont have to be tall those things in one to be a main character him being a jinchuriki was enough

3. i never said his fights were garbage i said they were recycled and boring cause they are, i showed all his major fights and they almost all end in the same way with almst near mirror imaging. meanwhile sasuke....

4. i said his motivation seems gay. didnt say he was outright gay i said him chasing him to this extreme was weird

i have no problem with gay people but its not right how far naruto is going for him, even if he is his best friend theres a point to call it quits people have to come to their own decisions.

5. his stupidity has gotten old and he doesnt need to have kakashi, the fox or kyuubi to lead him he should be doing it on his own by now

before you bash me to try and make yourself look like a hero atleaset read my post properly. i gave legit reasons as to where naruto needs improvement, everything else is fine but these aspects could use some major tweaks and if you dont think so you are the biggest naruto fanboy of them all. i wasnt even bashing i said whats holding him back as a character learn to read
k thanks

[marshall313]

Honestly, you're criticizing naruto's skills because you can't accept the fact that naruto had it all. From being the kyubi's jinchuuriki, to destined child, a sage, son of the legendary minato, part of the uzumaki clan and soon to become the juubi's next container.

Why? Because you want sasuke to be included in the destined child's list and you want sasuke to become the juubi's host.

And last but not the least, you want sasuke to become the main character and not naruto. Naruto's skills isn't an issue to your opinion, your issue is you want sasuke to become the main character because you like him to be and not naruto.

[Kid Chameleone]

k i brought up places he needs improvement and thats hating?

i said i want new strategies
maybe a new move or 2
him having something on his mind other than sasuke and going back to his old ways
him thinking for himself
not relying so much on power ups

and i say he has too many power ups and not enough base skills. its always constantly the same rountine itd be nice to see him pull off something new its been the same tactic since zabuza arc. your looking at this from a negative point of view, you have to be open to criticism of the character he has his flaws and im just point out where he could use improvement and in these cases it would be nice to see improvement and something fresh and unique from the character because hes been the same since part 1 mentally and he hasnt shown much outside of his power ups. i know he has increased his chakra control and all his techs but its the same ones over and over thats why i said hes broken. if you look at his stats realistically his chakra and chakra contol wold be through the roof but everything else like taijutsu, ninjtsu, speed and stuff would be decently low, theyre only on par with bad guys when he powers up to sage or kyuubi mode. im just saying why not increase his base skills and abilities to the max instead of working on things that can be taken away. sage mode can run out and god forbid naruto loses the kyuubi.

what was the point of him gaining wind chakra if he only uses it in one move?

whats the point of him being an uzumaki if hes not gonna gain some knowledge of sealing jutsu? and i know theyre hard to understand and i dont expect him to be using them all the time but he is capable of learning atleast one and knowing its details he was curious about all the types of chakra when he was training wind with kakashi, kishi shouldve dove further into that

why not work on your taijutsu? hes only capable of fighting nin like pain and obito when hes powered up, he'd get beat pretty ruthlessly if he didnt have these power ups

why not work on battle strategies to be more original and inventive? all he does is bait and switch its getting old and he only has one method of fighting which is coming straight at youre face, eventually someone is gonna have to catch on but of course plot protection which is why i said his fights are dumbed down. pain went all out on jiraiya and they attacked naruto 1 by 1, albeit the main one was charging they didnt know that so that fighting style left them at a clear disadvantage, he couldve atleast tried hand to hand he was shown to be a capable fighter and with 5 more bodies naruto will have no time to focus or analyze because hes ''stupid'' and doesnt know how to do it properly, yet showed strides of improvement in calculating data when fighting kakuza ill admit to that but yet again its gone and no where to be seen and hes being led by kyuubi and kakashi instead of taking the responsibility of ''child prophecy'', he doesnt have to be leading the army that was shikakus job but he can atleast come up with a new strategy or think on his own

if his base stats are improved he'll be an overall better fighter and thinker, but those aspects of his fighting style are constantly rejected for power ups and a new rasengan. he can be more original than that and hes shown it many times but he constantly resorts to the same things which shows minor improvements of his smarts and limits his growth and potential as a character. as i said he has one method of fighting and thats staright in your face, what would happen if he would face someone like deidara? death... no wait sorry plot protection instead of him using a new clone strategy and a C rank wind jutsu to knock him out of the air.

And for all you people that dont understand, i dont like sasuke over naruto i compare the two because they are rivals but when you look at how they fight and how much theyve improved sasuke beats naruto hands down. naruto would be dead if it werent for kyuubi and sage mode and the same goes for sasuke about sussanno and amateratsu but atleast sasuke has been shown to come up with strategies on the fly like he did with diedara. he always comes out with something freesh and new while naruto is simply powered up and does a rasengan. sasuke has better fights. thats it. i could care less for both characters i just want my neji resurrected ...fml

I think naruto is wasting his talent, why give him all these title abd boosts like child savior, senju-related, wind chakra, sage mode like he was fine just a jinchuriki and since he is all these things why not use them? thats the biggest piss off of all, the story would still be where it is if these titles and power boosts didnt exist. he has infinite growth at his hands but settles for the bait and switch

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

and i dont want sasuke to be the main character hes supposed to be narutos rival and a pillar of stregnth for him to overcome but without kyuubi and sage mode yet again he'd be killed. part 1 ended with them being near eqauls but now in terms of overall base skill sasuke is way better than naruto. powered up theyre equal but sasuke would kill him in a straight forward fight with no power ups thats why he needs to improve because if they both run out of chakra and theyre near exhaustion id put my money on a suske flash step kill, naruto wouldnt be able to counter it, hes not quick enough thats why he needs to work on his base skills cause if he runs out of sage chakra or loses the kyuubi and shit hits the fan whats he gonna do?

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

i simply said sasuke is doing the things naruto should be doing like new strategies, moves and stuff. realistically i couldnt see naruto taking sasuke in a fight imho

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

Honestly, you're criticizing naruto's skills because you can't accept the fact that naruto had it all. From being the kyubi's jinchuuriki, to destined child, a sage, son of the legendary minato, part of the uzumaki clan and soon to become the juubi's next container.

Why? Because you want sasuke to be included in the destined child's list and you want sasuke to become the juubi's host.

And last but not the least, you want sasuke to become the main character and not naruto. Naruto's skills isn't an issue to your opinion, your issue is you want sasuke to become the main character because you like him to be and not naruto.

you really jump to conclusions. i merely point out the fact that naruto cant do anything new and sasuke ends all his fights in a bang which makes them more interesting. you have to admit to that. id put seeing kirin over a new rasengan any day and as i said theyre rivals but sasuke looks and is a better ninja in terms of his own skills. just saying. im not being biased, but when you see one character just getting pwer ups and a new move just revamped constantly while the other fights to the death and comes out with a new move every fight. sasuke is better in terms of appeal than naruto, im not saying hes a better character but most people pick sasuke as a favorite cause hes new and hes always doing something fresh and exciting while naruto just is repeat over and over

[Delbi]

Honestly, you're criticizing naruto's skills because you can't accept the fact that naruto had it all. From being the kyubi's jinchuuriki, to destined child, a sage, son of the legendary minato, part of the uzumaki clan and soon to become the juubi's next container.

Naruto certainly does not have it all, and neither does Sasuke. Closest anyone has had to "having it all" are Hashirama and Madara.

[M3J]

@OP: I've always thought it was Sasuke who always kept getting rescued or helped. Naruto at least puts in effort, Sasuke just has stuff handed to him to make up for his general uselessness.

Incorrect. Sasuke doesn't have anything handed to him nor is he useless. Sasuke puts in effort as well, and Kyuubi hands stuff to Naruto as well. once again, bias comes into play and makes one blind.

@ Hakuteiken,

Sorry, but will power is not good or evil. It is merely the amount of determination or motivation to accomplish a goal. The will to take revenge doesn't necessarily make it weaker than the will to forgive somebody. More noble, certainly. But weaker, no.

Sasuke's will for revenge and Naruto's will for forgiveness can't be used to compare their strength of will because they both wanted different things. Sasuke sought revenge down to the very core of his being. I would say he is weak willed if he was easily sway from his path. Choosing "good" vs "evil" doesn't imply you are stronger willed. They are simply fighting for different reasons. I can easily argue that Naruto is weak willed because he could not do what he needed to do, which is to kill Nagato, because of his own sense of morality. He put his entire village in jeopardy because he didn't want blood on his hands. Granted this is a manga and everything always works out perfectly for the main protagonist, but Nagato could have easily came back to destroy Konoha again.

Naruto didn't kill Nagato because of his sense of morality, it's because he wanted to end hatred and spared Nagato for Jiraiya's sake more than anything else. I'm sure Naruto wouldn't have minded getting blood on his hand, considering what Nagato did to Konoha. Naruto showed strong will here.

Imagine bein face to face with someone who wiped out your town because of the injustice your town did to them. Would you forgive them, or get payback?

If Nagato didn't turn good, I'm sure Naruto would have killed him. It's not like he spared Nagato just because of Jiraiya. They had a talk and Nagato said he had a change of heart.

Naruto certainly does not have it all, and neither does Sasuke. Closest anyone has had to "having it all" are Hashirama and Madara.

I think Kakashi (skill variety) or Hiruzen (teacher, pupils, pupil's pupil, pupil's pupil's pupil's) had it al though. I mean, we don't know if Hashi or Mada can track enemies or anything, set up ambush, or use strategy to a great degree. Looks like they may have fought with pure power.

[Delbi]

I think Kakashi (skill variety) or Hiruzen (teacher, pupils, pupil's pupil, pupil's pupil's pupil's) had it al though. I mean, we don't know if Hashi or Mada can track enemies or anything, set up ambush, or use strategy to a great degree. Looks like they may have fought with pure power.

Hashirama seemed be near unkillable and had techniques for almost any situation. His power seems almost unreal considering he defeated Madara, who even without the Rinnegan might be the strongest ninja we have seen.

[M3J]

But as in well rounded, I'm not sure if either shinobi deserve that title. We know Kakashi's pretty well rounded as a shinobi, while Itachi and Sasuke are well rounded as a fighter. Hiruzen also has association, whether by master or pupil, and honor of being the longest hokage in history of Konoha, possibly the second longest kage after Oonoki. Hashirama and Tobirama died in battle while Hiruzen died out of choice. Madara was beaten by Hashirama despite usin full power.


oh wait, I read the thread title. Does the OP mean "Sasuke's hate" as in Sasuke's hatred or the Naruto readers' hatred for Sasuke?

[chilibun]

Naruto didn't kill Nagato because of his sense of morality, it's because he wanted to end hatred and spared Nagato for Jiraiya's sake more than anything else. I'm sure Naruto wouldn't have minded getting blood on his hand, considering what Nagato did to Konoha. Naruto showed strong will here.

Imagine bein face to face with someone who wiped out your town because of the injustice your town did to them. Would you forgive them, or get payback?

If Nagato didn't turn good, I'm sure Naruto would have killed him. It's not like he spared Nagato just because of Jiraiya. They had a talk and Nagato said he had a change of heart.

Nope. The philosophy of ending hate through understanding is a part of Naruto's morality. Naruto deemed it would be wrong to kill Nagato because the act of killing only spreads hate, and thus spared Nagato. Jiraiya, even though he wishfully believed in it, admittedly said he did not know how to achieve peace and left it up to Naruto to find his own answer. Jiraiya didn't shy away from kiling his enemies, including Nagato. So no, Naruto didn't do it for his sake. That's his own decision. Naruto had also decided not to kill Nagato right after he finished telling his sob story. Nagato never made any indications he had a change of heart.

[Delbi]

But as in well rounded, I'm not sure if either shinobi deserve that title. We know Kakashi's pretty well rounded as a shinobi, while Itachi and Sasuke are well rounded as a fighter. Hiruzen also has association, whether by master or pupil, and honor of being the longest hokage in history of Konoha, possibly the second longest kage after Oonoki. Hashirama and Tobirama died in battle while Hiruzen died out of choice. Madara was beaten by Hashirama despite usin full power.


oh wait, I read the thread title. Does the OP mean "Sasuke's hate" as in Sasuke's hatred or the Naruto readers' hatred for Sasuke?

Hashirama was well versed in all three ninja arts, having control of Moukton, Doton, and Suiton, being able to use high level genjutsu, and being a good hand to hand fighter as well as using weapons. He had a ton of stamina, could take down Biju's, knew sealing techniques, and is hailed by Madara as being the strongest ninja ever. Not to mention he was a great leader, and obviously had to be intelligent.

Kakashi lacks stamina and with it enduring killing power. Itachi also lacks stamina but has everything else. Sasuke and Naruto are still too young to be considered "having it all" imo.

[Delbi]

1. His fights weren't but his opponents were: Here are 3 cases:

Exhibit A: Vs. Neji. Despite the fact that Neji posses a Kekkai Genkai that let's him see through things he was able to be ambushed by someone under ground. Makes little to no sense.

Exhibit B: Vs. Kakazu. Despite the fact that Kakazu survived a fight with Hashirama of all people, and the fact he's 92 years old, and just fought with 4 people, he somehow falls for the bait and switch technique despite the fact Naruto was in front of him the entire course of their fight

Exhibit C: Vs. Pain. Pain had 6 bodies at his disposal, while fighting Jiraiya he used all 6 together to overwhelm him. While fighting Naruto he was content with sending them in 1 at a time for no reason.

2. He isn't a Genius, not even close. The fact he has to try hard to accomplish simple things is evidence enough for this. A genius doesn't have to try hard to have great results.

3. Can't argue that his fights because his fights are exciting but they do seemed recycled a bit. There's only so much variation you have when you only use variants of two techniques. Naruto always hides his clones, transforming them into rocks, dogs, etc. He constantly makes a lot of clones, and uses Rasengan techniques.

4. I hope to God he isn't gay, but I wouldn't put it past him.

5. He's a fucking idiot let's call a spade a spade here. Aside from forgetting the powers Nagato had, Naruto generally has no common sense, to the point he can't figure out when people are dead, or the fact he is on a fake mission.

And don't bash anyone as your own opinions are incredibly biased.

[Uchiha_Blood]

k i brought up places he needs improvement and thats hating?

i said i want new strategies
maybe a new move or 2
him having something on his mind other than sasuke and going back to his old ways
him thinking for himself
not relying so much on power ups

and i say he has too many power ups and not enough base skills. its always constantly the same rountine itd be nice to see him pull off something new its been the same tactic since zabuza arc. your looking at this from a negative point of view, you have to be open to criticism of the character he has his flaws and im just point out where he could use improvement and in these cases it would be nice to see improvement and something fresh and unique from the character because hes been the same since part 1 mentally and he hasnt shown much outside of his power ups. i know he has increased his chakra control and all his techs but its the same ones over and over thats why i said hes broken. if you look at his stats realistically his chakra and chakra contol wold be through the roof but everything else like taijutsu, ninjtsu, speed and stuff would be decently low, theyre only on par with bad guys when he powers up to sage or kyuubi mode. im just saying why not increase his base skills and abilities to the max instead of working on things that can be taken away. sage mode can run out and god forbid naruto loses the kyuubi.

what was the point of him gaining wind chakra if he only uses it in one move?

whats the point of him being an uzumaki if hes not gonna gain some knowledge of sealing jutsu? and i know theyre hard to understand and i dont expect him to be using them all the time but he is capable of learning atleast one and knowing its details he was curious about all the types of chakra when he was training wind with kakashi, kishi shouldve dove further into that

why not work on your taijutsu? hes only capable of fighting nin like pain and obito when hes powered up, he'd get beat pretty ruthlessly if he didnt have these power ups

why not work on battle strategies to be more original and inventive? all he does is bait and switch its getting old and he only has one method of fighting which is coming straight at youre face, eventually someone is gonna have to catch on but of course plot protection which is why i said his fights are dumbed down. pain went all out on jiraiya and they attacked naruto 1 by 1, albeit the main one was charging they didnt know that so that fighting style left them at a clear disadvantage, he couldve atleast tried hand to hand he was shown to be a capable fighter and with 5 more bodies naruto will have no time to focus or analyze because hes ''stupid'' and doesnt know how to do it properly, yet showed strides of improvement in calculating data when fighting kakuza ill admit to that but yet again its gone and no where to be seen and hes being led by kyuubi and kakashi instead of taking the responsibility of ''child prophecy'', he doesnt have to be leading the army that was shikakus job but he can atleast come up with a new strategy or think on his own

if his base stats are improved he'll be an overall better fighter and thinker, but those aspects of his fighting style are constantly rejected for power ups and a new rasengan. he can be more original than that and hes shown it many times but he constantly resorts to the same things which shows minor improvements of his smarts and limits his growth and potential as a character. as i said he has one method of fighting and thats staright in your face, what would happen if he would face someone like deidara? death... no wait sorry plot protection instead of him using a new clone strategy and a C rank wind jutsu to knock him out of the air.

And for all you people that dont understand, i dont like sasuke over naruto i compare the two because they are rivals but when you look at how they fight and how much theyve improved sasuke beats naruto hands down. naruto would be dead if it werent for kyuubi and sage mode and the same goes for sasuke about sussanno and amateratsu but atleast sasuke has been shown to come up with strategies on the fly like he did with diedara. he always comes out with something freesh and new while naruto is simply powered up and does a rasengan. sasuke has better fights. thats it. i could care less for both characters i just want my neji resurrected ...fml

I think naruto is wasting his talent, why give him all these title abd boosts like child savior, senju-related, wind chakra, sage mode like he was fine just a jinchuriki and since he is all these things why not use them? thats the biggest piss off of all, the story would still be where it is if these titles and power boosts didnt exist. he has infinite growth at his hands but settles for the bait and switch

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

and i dont want sasuke to be the main character hes supposed to be narutos rival and a pillar of stregnth for him to overcome but without kyuubi and sage mode yet again he'd be killed. part 1 ended with them being near eqauls but now in terms of overall base skill sasuke is way better than naruto. powered up theyre equal but sasuke would kill him in a straight forward fight with no power ups thats why he needs to improve because if they both run out of chakra and theyre near exhaustion id put my money on a suske flash step kill, naruto wouldnt be able to counter it, hes not quick enough thats why he needs to work on his base skills cause if he runs out of sage chakra or loses the kyuubi and shit hits the fan whats he gonna do?

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

i simply said sasuke is doing the things naruto should be doing like new strategies, moves and stuff. realistically i couldnt see naruto taking sasuke in a fight imho

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------



you really jump to conclusions. i merely point out the fact that naruto cant do anything new and sasuke ends all his fights in a bang which makes them more interesting. you have to admit to that. id put seeing kirin over a new rasengan any day and as i said theyre rivals but sasuke looks and is a better ninja in terms of his own skills. just saying. im not being biased, but when you see one character just getting pwer ups and a new move just revamped constantly while the other fights to the death and comes out with a new move every fight. sasuke is better in terms of appeal than naruto, im not saying hes a better character but most people pick sasuke as a favorite cause hes new and hes always doing something fresh and exciting while naruto just is repeat over and over

Do answer to those 3 questions, please:

-When was the last time Base Naruto was ridiculed? I remember a shunshin from Base Naruto fast enough to pull Sakura out of Sasuke's arms in less than a second. I also remember Naruto matching Deva Path in Taijutsu without using Sage Mode.

-Last battle where Naruto didn't use his brain, without counting the farce that was the Nagato fight.
Let's backtrack, I'll help you:

vs Obito: strategy done in sync with Kakashi, it was actually initiated by Naruto.
Results? Obito's mask was shattered
vs Jinchuuriki: All alone he devised a way to free the Bijuus from Obito's control
vs Raikage: as a clone he managed to beat the strongest Raikage in history using his only weak point
vs Pein: do I need to list all the times Naruto outsmarted Pein?
vs Kakuzu: it was retarded, but he still won thanks to strategy and trickery

-The idea that Sasuke is new ( no power up from Sasuke was showed first on him ) , that Sasuke has new moves that don't come from almighty magical Sharingan ( the last "new move" was Kirin, half a manga ago ), that Sasuke is that much superior in base, considering, in Base, Naruto can replicate the attack that wounded the Kyuubi, the 100 KB + Oodama Rasengan combo.
Sasuke would blitz him? Just saying, Sasuke needed Susano'o to compete with Danzou.

While overall its obvious Sasuke is the better ninja ( he has handseal speed and genjutsu feats Naruto will never have, and the Sharingan to boot ), the gap isn't as wide as you may want to believe.
The argument "Sasuke has the better stats" is old like the notion that databooks can't be trusted, and by feats its not backed up since their initial fight in part 2, 400 chapters ago

[Uchiha_Blood]

Next time I read even the slightest insult, I'm deleting the comment, locking the thread and reporting whoever did it.
If you can't stop behaving like children, we'll make you all behave like adults, so take a chill pill and calm down.

If you have problems ignore the other or resolve them via pm.
Don't mistake leniency for laziness, we mods really don't want to turn this board into a dictatorial one but we will if you don't just grow up, okay?
Last warning - UB

[Kid Chameleone]

Next time I read even the slightest insult, I'm deleting the comment, locking the thread and reporting whoever did it.
If you can't stop behaving like children, we'll make you all behave like adults, so take a chill pill and calm down.

If you have problems ignore the other or resolve them via pm.
Don't mistake leniency for laziness, we mods really don't want to turn this board into a dictatorial one but we will if you don't just grow up, okay?
Last warning - UB

bro you may as well delete it. its a shame that you cant talk about character flaws and that opinion and observation are seen as an attack. i started this thread to point out narutos flaws and maybe get some discussion about why naruto has broken skills and how they can be fixed but of course i get flamed lolz

its called a ''discussion''


discussion
 
dis·cus·sion
[dih-skuhsh-uhn] Show IPA
noun
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate.

i made no attacks at the character so dont jump down my throat, again for the 15th time

this was a response to another post but i thought it should be a thread, what do you guys think? imho these are the reasons naruto sucks as a main character and whats holding him and the story back

i gave my OPINION on his flaws and where they can be improved cause honestly without sage mode or kyuubi he doesnt hold a flame to any ninjas hes faced in part 2 IN MY OPINION.pointing out character flaws doesnt mean you hate the character it means you enjoy the story and you thinking of potential and possibilities for the character. naruto does have endless potential but doesnt know how to use it properly, the point of this thread

if you dont like it disagree. calling names and putting down grammar only shows that you cant discuss and are simple minded and this applies everyone in general, your rank or status doesnt matter were all fans of naruto at the end of the day and were gonna disagree. you dont have to attack someone if you disagree, share your thoughts and ideas come back when the next day.

dont be so aggressive and critical all the time when someone says something you dont like, no matter what we do theres gonna someone that doesnt like it so instead of attacking an opinion just say your and be done with it

---------- Post added at 11:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

its a shame people cant even communicate properly anymore

---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

-The idea that Sasuke is new ( no power up from Sasuke was showed first on him ) , that Sasuke has new moves that don't come from almighty magical Sharingan ( the last "new move" was Kirin, half a manga ago ), that Sasuke is that much superior in base, considering, in Base, Naruto can replicate the attack that wounded the Kyuubi, the 100 KB + Oodama Rasengan combo.
Sasuke would blitz him? Just saying, Sasuke needed Susano'o to compete with Danzou.

While overall its obvious Sasuke is the better ninja ( he has handseal speed and genjutsu feats Naruto will never have, and the Sharingan to boot ), the gap isn't as wide as you may want to believe.
The argument "Sasuke has the better stats" is old like the notion that databooks can't be trusted, and by feats its not backed up since their initial fight in part 2, 400 chapters ago

i didnt mean sasuke is ''new'' completely i mean everytime he shows up its in a new outfit and he always shows a new move in everyfight its refreshing to see some imagination and ingenuity as opposed to the stimple run at you rasengan

danzo was the leader of the root with 50+ years on sasuke and you cant blame sasuke for spamming susanno danzo had boosted himself with countless sharigan and hashirama cells. sasuke using susanno against that seems legit to me

as for the fights you listed, yeah ill admit he got the better of the 3rd raikage and caught pain off guard when he d had his clones transform into rocks but the thing is he should be better than what he is now and thats undeniable. hes made it this far on luck and power ups and if he loses those its game over UNLESS he works on his base sklills

[Exodi]

i didnt mean sasuke is ''new'' completely i mean everytime he shows up its in a new outfit and he always shows a new move in everyfight its refreshing to see some imagination and ingenuity as opposed to the stimple run at you rasengan

danzo was the leader of the root with 50+ years on sasuke and you cant blame sasuke for spamming susanno danzo had boosted himself with countless sharigan and hashirama cells. sasuke using susanno against that seems legit to me

as for the fights you listed, yeah ill admit he got the better of the 3rd raikage and caught pain off guard when he d had his clones transform into rocks but the thing is he should be better than what he is now and thats undeniable. hes made it this far on luck and power ups and if he loses those its game over UNLESS he works on his base sklills

If you are willing to accept Sasuke's spamming of Sharingan techniques but not Naruto's spamming of Rasengan based abilities, then this is a discussion in which a middle ground will never be reached.
People are pretty much going to be saying what has already been said a thousand times in this thread.

*shrug*

[M3J]

Nope. The philosophy of ending hate through understanding is a part of Naruto's morality. Naruto deemed it would be wrong to kill Nagato because the act of killing only spreads hate, and thus spared Nagato. Jiraiya, even though he wishfully believed in it, admittedly said he did not know how to achieve peace and left it up to Naruto to find his own answer. Jiraiya didn't shy away from kiling his enemies, including Nagato. So no, Naruto didn't do it for his sake. That's his own decision. Naruto had also decided not to kill Nagato right after he finished telling his sob story. Nagato never made any indications he had a change of heart.

But he still refused to kill Nagato because of Jiraiya, not just because of his morality. He wanted to achieve peace because it was Jiraiya's dream, otherwise he could have killed Nagato.

Hashirama was well versed in all three ninja arts, having control of Moukton, Doton, and Suiton, being able to use high level genjutsu, and being a good hand to hand fighter as well as using weapons. He had a ton of stamina, could take down Biju's, knew sealing techniques, and is hailed by Madara as being the strongest ninja ever. Not to mention he was a great leader, and obviously had to be intelligent.

Kakashi lacks stamina and with it enduring killing power. Itachi also lacks stamina but has everything else. Sasuke and Naruto are still too young to be considered "having it all" imo.

But was he good at tracking, setting up traps, ambushes, strategies, and the likes? I mean the only downside to Kakashi was lack of chakra.

I don't think Naruto will ever have it all though, in terms of being a shinobi. He so far has only set up traps in fights, hasn't shown ability to track (other than Sage Mode), hasn't ambushed anyone, or has shown strategy out of fights. He can't use genjutsu either. His skillset is sadly too limited.