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Thread: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

  1. #166
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    No, because if each chakra aligned to an element than no one would be able to use more than one. The fact that chakra can be formed into separate elements lets us know that no chakra is simply aligned one way. Rather, each chakra leans more heavily in one direction than it does others, and there is where we get affinities. To say that this person has fire chakra or this person has earth chakra is incorrect. Rather, you say they have an affinity for fire or earth, meaning they can use it better than any other element in their arsenal.

    It has to be noted that even among people with affinities, there are degrees of power. For example, Zabuza is a suiton user, but so are Kisame and Tobirama. Yet, their level of control over the element far eclipse Zabuza's. You could attribute this to practice, but not all things need practice, so things just come easier for some than others. A perfect example is Naruto and Sage Mode. He perfected it in short time, yet Jiraiya who used it for years never perfected it.

    The notion that Naruto can out of the blue form chakra into any element is preposterous. Despite creating FRS, Naruto has little to no command in any other way over his own element, Futon, aside from Futon: Rasengan and putting wind chakra into trench knives.

    And you don't get banned because you are critical, we're all critical of one another. My guess is you get banned because you are very pompous and you have an extreme attitude and insult people on a regular basis. But I'm not a mod so I don't know the exact reasons, nor do I care.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/22.html

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/19.html

    Yamato stated the most people's chakra was naturally lean towards a certain nature.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/21.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/22.html

    These scans shows that naruto's chakra was naturally lean on wind affinity before his nature manipulation training. Meaning, his chakra wasn't just aligned to an element but rather t'was naturally lean on wind affinity. The shape manipulation training has nothing to do with naruto's wind chakra affinity or it change naruto's non-elemental chakra to a wind nature.

    Yea, overall, that scans are enough as a proof that your so called ''non-elemental'' chakra doesn't exist in kishi's manga.

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  3. #167
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Yea, overall, that scans are enough as a proof that your so called ''non-elemental'' chakra doesn't exist in kishi's manga.
    Overall your post is enough to prove that you aren't aware being aligned to something or leaning towards something basically means the same damn thing...

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  4. #168
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Overall your post is enough to prove that you aren't aware being aligned to something or leaning towards something basically means the same damn thing...

    Are they the same? damn it. I didn't know that. My bad.

    ---------- Post added at 05:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 AM ----------

    But still my point stand. That there's no such thing as non-elemental chakra.

  5. #169
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    @marshall313

    I am not sure on this but from what i get chakra non-elemental and then you manipulate it(Nature Transformation) to turn it into an element? The fact that all chakra as a natural afinity to X element it does not mean its natural state its that element.

    Take Naruto's rasengan. Under normal circumstances its just chakra, no element added to it. Then he can add futon and create a futon Rasengan. Remember when Kakashi and Naruto slamed a Rasengan? Naruto won as his had futon in it and Kakashi's whas just chakra.

    Perhaps i am missing something from your discussion.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    "I wonder why you think you must continue to read something that cause such hell. "

    its called a habit

  7. #171
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @marshall313

    I am not sure on this but from what i get chakra non-elemental and then you manipulate it(Nature Transformation) to turn it into an element? The fact that all chakra as a natural afinity to X element it does not mean its natural state its that element.

    Take Naruto's rasengan. Under normal circumstances its just chakra, no element added to it. Then he can add futon and create a futon Rasengan. Remember when Kakashi and Naruto slamed a Rasengan? Naruto won as his had futon in it and Kakashi's whas just chakra.

    Perhaps i am missing something from your discussion.
    Yea, the rasengan is just made up of chakra. After all, it's just shape transformation of one's chakra to highest possible point. But we're not actually talking about that.

    They said that at first, anyone's chakra is just a non-elemental. And with the nature manipulation, that non-elemental chakra would change to its own affinity. But from naruto's training, kakashi let naruto first to used the card to know his affinity before, as in before, doing the shape manipulation. So basically, from the start, naruto's affinity is already a wind type of chakra.

  8. #172
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Are they the same? damn it. I didn't know that. My bad.
    The meaning of those terms can differ depending on the context they are being used for, but in this case they are basically the same, with "align" just being a little stronger.

    Quote Quote:
    But still my point stand. That there's no such thing as non-elemental chakra.
    But there is.

    People don't have something like "fire chakra" or "water chakra", they simply have chakra. However, different people have different talents and strengths. Some are naturally better at playing tennis while some are naturally better at playing football. For some its easier to mold chakra into fire and for some its easier to mold it into water.

    Thats about all there is to affinity.

    Thats also the reason why people can have a secondary or tertiary etc. affinity. It only means while someone is best at molding his chakra into fire (primary), he's next best at molding his chakra into wind (secondary) and so on.

    But the basic, raw chakra is always just a mashup of spiritual and physical energy and doesn't have any elemental characteristics. Thats why the whole process is called "Nature Transformation".

    There's also a very good explanation in the wiki:

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Transformation
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  10. #173
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    The meaning of those terms can differ depending on the context they are being used for, but in this case they are basically the same, with "align" just being a little stronger.
    I really thought they're entirely different. maybe i got it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    But there is.

    People don't have something like "fire chakra" or "water chakra", they simply have chakra. However, different people have different talents and strengths. Some are naturally better at playing tennis while some are naturally better at playing football. For some its easier to mold chakra into fire and for some its easier to mold it into water.

    Thats about all there is to affinity.

    Thats also the reason why people can have a secondary or tertiary etc. affinity. It only means while someone is best at molding his chakra into fire (primary), he's next best at molding his chakra into wind (secondary) and so on.

    But the basic, raw chakra is always just a mashup of spiritual and physical energy and doesn't have any elemental characteristics. Thats why the whole process is called "Nature Transformation".

    There's also a very good explanation in the wiki:

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Transformation
    When creating a ninjutsu, the two methods of manipulating chakra are referred to as Shape
    Transformation and Nature Transformation:

    Shape Transformation deals with controlling the form, movement, and potency of chakra.Nature Transformation usually deals with changing the physical properties of chakra into an element. There is also the Nature Transformation of Yin and Yang, which deals with changing the ratio of spiritual and physical energies within chakra.


    Now, if the nature transformation deals with changing the physical properties of chakra into an element, then how come naruto knows his element before doing the nature transformation training?

    Well, I think there's just a normal chakra, and that normal chakra has already its affinity. But a non-elemental chakra? I really doubt that.

  11. #174
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/22.html

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/19.html

    Yamato stated the most people's chakra was naturally lean towards a certain nature.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/21.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c315/22.html

    These scans shows that naruto's chakra was naturally lean on wind affinity before his nature manipulation training. Meaning, his chakra wasn't just aligned to an element but rather t'was naturally lean on wind affinity. The shape manipulation training has nothing to do with naruto's wind chakra affinity or it change naruto's non-elemental chakra to a wind nature.

    Yea, overall, that scans are enough as a proof that your so called ''non-elemental'' chakra doesn't exist in kishi's manga.
    No, you just proved my point. They lean towards an element, meaning that chakra can't have one definitive element, because if it leans towards one element, that means it can also lean towards others, just not as much.

    The chakra that Naruto creates Rasengans with is non-elemental chakra. It has no element, it is simply pure. But because Naruto has an affinity for wind, he can more easily turn that chakra into wind chakra than any other element.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  12. #175
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    He knew his affinity because of Kakashis test.

    Its basically like if you go to the job center and take one of those aptitude tests. You just fill out everything and then they evaluate your results and tell you "Ah, so this and that are your strengths so you're suited for such and such tasks".

    Naruto took the leaf and just did what naturally felt right. It got cut, which means he's naturally talented at molding wind chakra.

    Tell me, if chakra automatically had an element to begin with, then how can people use two, three or more elements? You would need to transform for example fire into water, which doesn't sound likely.

    I think its easiest if one imagines chakra as paint. Paint is paint, right? Depending on the consistence there's paint better suited for walls, other paint better suited for wood, another paint best suited for synthetic materials and so on. But at the end of the day its still just paint.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

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  13. #176
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    I really thought they're entirely different. maybe i got it wrong.



    When creating a ninjutsu, the two methods of manipulating chakra are referred to as Shape
    Transformation and Nature Transformation:

    Shape Transformation deals with controlling the form, movement, and potency of chakra.Nature Transformation usually deals with changing the physical properties of chakra into an element. There is also the Nature Transformation of Yin and Yang, which deals with changing the ratio of spiritual and physical energies within chakra.


    Now, if the nature transformation deals with changing the physical properties of chakra into an element, then how come naruto knows his element before doing the nature transformation training?

    Well, I think there's just a normal chakra, and that normal chakra has already its affinity. But a non-elemental chakra? I really doubt that.
    Normal chakra is non-elemental chakra lol. Chakra can't have an element unless the user uses natural transformation to turn it into an element.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    I don't even understand how one could get the idea that chakra has an element in its raw form... That is why Naruto learned Rasengan in the first place. Handseals and chakra transformation was to hard for him.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    If Naruto can't even hurt Edo Madara, then he's nowhere near close to Rikudou Sennin. Hell, Naruto had trouble with Pain and Nagato, who actually had Rikudou Sennin's power. Up to this point, Naruto being even 1/100 close to Rikudou SEnnin is a wishful and possibly delusional thinking.

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  18. #179
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    If Naruto can't even hurt Edo Madara, then he's nowhere near close to Rikudou Sennin. Hell, Naruto had trouble with Pain and Nagato, who actually had Rikudou Sennin's power. Up to this point, Naruto being even 1/100 close to Rikudou SEnnin is a wishful and possibly delusional thinking.
    I now doubt Naruto is ever going to be even close to Rikudou in terms of power. Looking at the pace of things, it wouldnt surprise me if Naruto won against Madara using a sealing Rasengan. Kishi seems tired to write this manga lol
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Sealing rasengan? He can barely do a rasengan without a clone. I'm assuming Madara will be redeemed though, without Naruto needing to be stronger. As it stands, Edo Madara is the closest to Rikudou Sennin, followed by either Hashirama or Nagato. Hell, Tobi could be in fourth place because he was able to challenge Naruto and nearly warp him away.

    Naruto could get close to Rikudou Sennin in terms of ideals or goal - which is to establish peace. If he finally establishes peace, he can best Rikudou Sennin in one way, if nothing else.

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