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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
It may or it may not be hidden within the chakra. We only know it's passed by genes in general. There is something said as element-natured, but it's way too vague to elaborate. So, it should be within the chakra, I suppose.
1. "The chakra of each Shinobi lean towards a particular element (earth, fire, water, wind, or light). For example, the Uchiha have affinity to fire ...
My understanding to this is that the affinity of a shinobi is the element towards which his chakra leans. Maybe because I am so stupid that I think it is very easy to understand it. To make it even clearer, there is the paper test for affinity. In order for a shinobi to find his affinity, he inject his chakra into a special paper. You already gave some examples.
So after injecting the chakra (raw chakra), one can know if he has any of the element as the predominant. I use "predominant" because I understand the definition of affinity as predominant element. The chakra leaning towards that elements does not mean it does not contain other elements. Given that the paper test is based on raw chakra, you can see that the chakra of a shinobi contains all the basic element - or at least factor that define them. I also understand that if the shinobi chakra does not contain enough quantity of a given elements, that shinobi will never be able to perform a jutsu based on that elements.
2. Performing elemental Jutsu - nature transformation/manipulation
Kakashi and Yamato go on to explain that once a Shinobi chakra has a given nature, they can now learn how to manipulate this element to create the natural form of the element which are wind, lightning, actual water, etc, or to use them in Jutsu such as Fuiton RS. Pure water such as the one Kisame produced, or lightning such as the one Kakashi used to counter Kakuzu's are called elemental Jutsu. Kakashi said that a person cannot use these scales as Kakuzu used if it is not there affinity (we found later the explanation behind Kakuzu).
The key here, is that before creating wind with a seal, or making fire bullet like Uchihas, these elements have to be in a certain state in their chakra. Otherwise, they cannot use them. Actually, as I said earlier, the chakra of any shinobi might contain already all five elements, but since only element X is dominant, the chakra is called X-type. Thus Naruto is wind-tyoe, Sasuke is fire-type. Another proof is that Sasuke is also light-type. Hashimara was water&earth-type.
So clearly, Chakra nature = shinobi's affinity = the most predominant element in a chakra, and there is no work required to bring it up. The shinobi only works to manipulate it so that he can use it in a specific Jutsu.
------- Conclusion ----
Naruto himself is Wind-element ninja. I believe that Kyuubi's chakra has all the elements in it. For example, the fact that Kyuubi chakra grows trees around mokuton was considered by me as proof of water and earth in it. The fact that Kyuubi chakra burns on contact in V2 cloack is proof of fire. An, I will not be surprised that there is also light. By converting this chakra and mixing with his own, I believe that Naruto can create chakra of any type of nature, or mix them to give to whoever he wants.
As I said, I decided to stop arguing, and let Kishi give the answer. However, I will use this opportunity to address you concern about Oinoki Jinton.
Kekkei Genkai such as Mokuton or Lava, and Kekkei Tota are actually ability acquired by combining elements to create an advance element. Because it is difficult for regular shinobi to do this combination, when someone is able to do that, they are considered as advance bloodline/bloodline expansion. This was explained also by Kakashi and Yamato in the same chapter.
Thus, here, you should not see dust element as a chakra nature. Rather, it is an advance element obtain by combination.
Dust = wind+earth+fire (not sure for fire)
Mokuton = earth+water
Therefore, if Onoiki was there, Naruto would have given him the three elements he need, then since Muu gave him the secret of Jinton, he would have used the recipe to create his Jinton. We can even see throughout the manga that these are different from KKG such Sharingan, demonic Mirrors, and Kimmimaru's KKG. None of Hashimara's descendent inherited his KKG. Muu and Onoiki are master and student. Yamato is a clone of Hashimara - thus I say that they only replicated Hashimara's condition.
PS: In this discussion, most of people have denied the content in chapter 314-316 (chakra nature and affinity ) and 525 (KK Tota secret passed down to Onoiki)
Last edited by so6pww; January 27, 2013 at 02:55 PM.
Basically, it's probably not so much a result the presence of Earth or Water natured chakra. However, I believe it is definitely worth keeping in mind regarding Naruto's new power-ups.
It's still an asspull though. I guess it was introduced earlier to make it not look like an asspull, but that failed. Only reason why people accept it is because it's Naruto - any bullshit from Naruto gets accepted.
Good thing beliefs aren't facts, just opinions.Quote:
LOL, the last post he made was the one right before I demanded he prove that the Mini Rasenshuriken has no Fuuton in it, and for him to admit he was wrong about Naruto being incapable of using Fuuton with Naruto's chakra. He admitted he "made a mistake" with him using an FRS in Chakra Mode, but won't prove the mini rasenshuriken has no Fuuton.Originally Posted by M3J
I don't know what he's afraid of. He's lost all credibility already. It's not like we're gonna lose respect for him for admitting he's wrong. Can't lose what you don't have in the first place.
On topic though: I don't get the point of claiming Naruto is the next Sage of Six Paths because there's more to it than simply having the will of fire and being outrageously powerful. He has to be a master of all 6 Paths of Chakra aswell. Something Naruto won't be. He'll be the next Sage when it comes to personality and philosphy, but that's it.
My only mistake is that what he used in 617 is not FRS, but the normal RS. And if you read my answer to your post, I noticed that I am the one who induced you in error.
Again: In KM, Naruto use to make only RS, not FRS. There is no wind element in RS. It is pure shape manipulation. This is obvious, and the names are different. Fuiton RS =/= RS. Go back and read my answer to your post, and start discussing properly.
In forums, I am only interested in finding meaning and implications of actions and facts. I like speculations, theories, and predictions. Thus, I will be one of the last to have problem with making or admitting my mistakes. The good thing I have noticed is that my thread are always discussed until there is a clear status - that is me or my adversaries will know whether they make sense or not. Even if I were to make 1000 errors, who can really punish me for them given that most people keep posting their own opinion rather than facts from the manga.
Last edited by so6pww; January 27, 2013 at 11:08 PM.
I think Hashirama's own Senju life force is probably the more important aspect of the Mokuton (i.e, what gives it the power to control Bijuu or link to the Gedo). So without necessarily gaining access to Water/Earth, Naruto's chakra IS becoming much closer to the SO6P/Hashirama; his physical energies are powerful enough to resonate with the Mokuton.
I wonder if Naruto could affect the environment while in Sage Mode in the same way that Kabuto/Jiraiya have done... perhaps combining that power with the Chakra Mode's ability to provide Life Force for plants will allow Naruto to spawn forests? Maybe now that Naruto knows how to transfer chakra into people, he'll be able to transfer Sage chakra into the environment as well.
Last edited by rlinfamous; January 28, 2013 at 02:24 AM.
Rasenshuriken does have fuuton in it. I actually doubt that we have seen Naruto use a Jutsu called Rasenshuriken on its own.Quote:
Read that chapter and you will understand why RS is wind based.
The reason being it was an incomplete Jutsu and SM is there to give him extra protection. From what we have seen, Naruto is hardly bound to the same rules of chakra exhaustion or capacity/limit.
Can you please explain to me then where the Mini-RS gets its cutting power from?Quote:
Anyways...on topic...Naruto is indeed getting closer to the Sage of the Six Paths, and that is as close as he can get on his half of the lineage...he is the personification of what the older son of the the Sage was all about...or was it the younger?...anyways, the one with the strong body
Last edited by benelori; January 28, 2013 at 05:15 AM.
so6pww, that wasn't the point. The thing is, as stated before, if Oonoki is able to use three elements, that means he can use nature transformation for three different elements, plus, he can also combine them. What about affinity? The chakra paper is probably react in a way only one element can, that is, dominating the others. Then, how can Naruto know which elements to give to Oonoki? Until Oonoki decides to use a Jinton jutsu, he doesn't manipulate all three elements, so, Naruto cannot possibly know of that prior to that. It's not an element itself, it's an artificially manipulated element is the better term. However, you mold chakra at the moment you use Kekkei Genkai. Until then, there is not a mixed nature of chakra residing in your body.
I don't know if you're gonna accept obito's opinion about naruto. He said that he seen hashirama through naruto and he had the senju's will of fire.
Ahh. Never mind. Obito at that time is madara.
- RS Seal
- Reaction of mokuton to the chakra cloak - indication of life force - http://www.mangapanda.com/93-31099-1...apter-462.html
- Conversion of KB chakra to each Nin's chakra type - indication of life force/physical energy - http://www.mangapanda.com/93-31099-1...apter-462.html
How naruto would know which elements to give oonoki? The same way he did on how he recognized kakashi's chakra. If oonoki is a KT, then that's his unique trait as an individual. So if naruto can mold kurama's chakra to match everyone's unique trait, does it mean that naruto mold kurama's chakra to match oonoki's chakra/unique trait as a KT?