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Thread: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

  1. #106
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Based on what we saw from Yamato though, Hashirama's ability to heal himself does come from Mokuton. I mean, Yamato took a sword to the chest and got up like nothing after using Mokuton. Mokuton being alive or as powerful can actually be attributed to his own life force/chakra, not necessarily Senju's or Uzumaki's. Tsunade and Karin are the only Uzumaki blood known to be able to heal, but Karin hasn't shown to heal herself. we've seen many non-Uzumaki healers as well.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by rlinfamous View Post
    It wasn't in a conversation about the Mokuton, it was just about Hashirama and his healing abilities vs Tsunade's.

    Spoiler show

    Spoiler show


    However, good catch pointing out Yamato's technique. While Yamato needed seals to perform it (unlike Hashirama's alleged healing jutsu), it certainly could be proof that Hashirama's healing is pretty much straight-up Mokuton. I hadn't really considered that panel.

    Spoiler show


    I still think Hashirama's jutsu is more indicative of his incredible Senju/Uzumaki Life Force, which is what grants his Mokuton all of its unique properties; it's not the wood itself that is amazing, it's Hashirama's chakra that can use the wood as a conduit. That's why strapping his face on your arm lets you wield 10 transplanted Sharingan, or why having his genes gives Obito/Madara the power to link with the Mazou. I also believe it's why his healing techniques are so incredible.

    I think a Senju/Uzumaki could do the same things as Hashirama with an element other than Mokuton if they had the same level of power; if Tobirama had been as much of a badass, he could have probably just used his water, but for whatever reason his chakra must have been inferior, because you don't see people transplanting his genes for stamina.

    It's a shame that Kishi has created so many overpowered Uchiha characters with unique eyes and powers that follow the theme of Yin/Spiritual Energies, etc, but only one dominant Senju character to represent Yang/Physical Energies. While Nagato/Naruto are chakra beasts and can handle the Rinnegan/Kyuubi, etc, it's hard to distinguish their own powers from those "borrowed" powers. Hashirama didn't need the Kyuubi to be a badass, he was badass enough to control the Kyuubi. He didn't need the Rinnegan, he was a necessary component for Madara to even awaken the Rinnegan... I wish we got more answers about the mysterious Senju clan and why we don't see any of them.
    Check his last comment, about "compared to this". That's about Mokuton, as that was all he had shown. He didn't/couldn't have shown any healing because he was an Edo summon.

    If that was the case, that it was due to their life force, then Hashirama wouldn't be the sole user of Mokuton. There were plenty of other Senju, yet only Hashirama had these abilities and only his Dna could power-up others. No one wants Tsunade's Dna or Tobirama's Dna or X's Dna. It's all about Hashirama. All life force have been mentioned for is extending their lives, allowing them to live longer. That's something we've seen from several Uzumaki's, Kushina and Tsunade surviving when anyone else would be dead. Mokuton's the only element that involves bringing something to life. That's a key attribute of it, that it creates actual life.

    Hashirama wasn't exactly the standard either, given the uniqueness of Mokuton. It's true that Kishi has been spare concerning Senju abilities, but he really didn't hype them that much even upon their introduction. Really not much one can do to show physical power other then making them to live longer then normal be their thing. They don't even got the chakra angle to use given how widespread that has become.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Check his last comment, about "compared to this". That's about Mokuton, as that was all he had shown. He didn't/couldn't have shown any healing because he was an Edo summon.

    If that was the case, that it was due to their life force, then Hashirama wouldn't be the sole user of Mokuton. There were plenty of other Senju, yet only Hashirama had these abilities and only his Dna could power-up others. No one wants Tsunade's Dna or Tobirama's Dna or X's Dna. It's all about Hashirama. All life force have been mentioned for is extending their lives, allowing them to live longer. That's something we've seen from several Uzumaki's, Kushina and Tsunade surviving when anyone else would be dead. Mokuton's the only element that involves bringing something to life. That's a key attribute of it, that it creates actual life.

    Hashirama wasn't exactly the standard either, given the uniqueness of Mokuton. It's true that Kishi has been spare concerning Senju abilities, but he really didn't hype them that much even upon their introduction. Really not much one can do to show physical power other then making them to live longer then normal be their thing. They don't even got the chakra angle to use given how widespread that has become.
    You must read the text completely. You chopped the sentence, did you not. Madara said, " compare this to what he could do..." This cahpter was about Hashimara's ability to heal himself without hand seal, not mokuton. They were discussing medic. The "he" in that sentence is for Hashimara.

    ---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    lol what?
    Not only you are wrong, you are incredibly wrong:
    The exchange happens only and only when Naruto starts using Chakra Mode, as Hachibi explained.
    Not only that, but Yondaime's seal was made so only a tiny bit of Kyuubi's chakra would leak, and it would kinda defeat the purpose if Yondaime would let the Kyuubi stole the chakra of his son, expecially when he was a baby, right?

    And considering neither Kushina nor Mito were perfect Jinchuurikis, Kyuubi didn't steal a thing
    I guess it is difficult to see that Kyuubi grown inside Naruto. You think he grown without feeding himself. Every time Naruto asked him for chakra, it was to pay a rent - don't forget that. And don't forget, if a Jinchuriki dies, the seal does not break. Rather, the Biju died. It even seems that the Biju and his Jinchuriki share their life force.

    ---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Both are true, but it remains to be seen if Karin can actually heal herself.
    You get Mito with rebirth Jutsu that would have shorten the lifespan of a regular person due to cell division rate. Tsunade is the evidence that Mito did not get that feat from Kyuubi.You have Hashimara who is kind of the Madara of his group with instant healing. Then you get Karin with healing power - just her chakra. These are all Uzumaki related, and somehow they have a variant of healing power. Kushina survived a tailed beast extraction. Then we know that most of the senju/Uzumaki are strong in their body, even women such as Tsunade. My suggestion is that this is no different from the Uchiha Sharingan.

    We have Sasuke, Itachi, Madara, Obito, Shisui have different variant of MS. Like Senju/Uzumaki body, most Uchiha have basis 3 tomoe Sharingan, and not all Uchiha can unlock it same as not all Uzumaki/Senju will be very special with their body.

    From my analogy and the Senju/Uzumaki feats, I can infer with some positive probability that Kyuubi is only amplifying Naruto's feats. We even see Karin, and Nagato that can sense within wide range as if they were omnipresent. Tobirama could sense enemies by just touching the ground, and detect even their number and strength. Moreover, similarly to Uchiha case where some Uchiha don't have Sharingan, you cannot expect all the Senju/Uzumaki to have these feats.

    Going back to kyuubi, I am pretty sure that everyone have noticed how Kyuubi is extremely special among all the Bijus. My opinion is that he might not be that special, but just have copied, and is showing Uzumaki's and Naruto's own feats. Specifically, the chakra cloak in BM is full with facts that prove they are Uzumaki related. Some people would say Rikudo, but I can only see the Uzumaki spiral symbol.

    In conclusion, we have a single Kyuubi being attributed power that are seen in a whole clan. Let not forget that in this manga Senju/Uzumaki are said to have strong body and live long. Healing is part of their natural heritage from Rikudo.

    Very important fact about Jinchuriiki-biju relationship

    When a biju is sealed within a Jinchuriki, there is a mixing of their chakra and a symbiotic relationship. The biju feed on the Jinchuriki, and the Jinchuriki also receive the Biju chakra. As consequence, even after Gaara was extracted his shukaku, he still keep the power of his beast. This led his father to think he was still Jinchuriki. Roshi could use Lava because of his beast. It is then possible that the Biju can also copy the feat of his host.
    Last edited by so6pww; January 29, 2013 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    You must read the text completely. You chopped the sentence, did you not. Madara said, " compare this to what he could do..." This cahpter was about Hashimara's ability to heal himself without hand seal, not mokuton. They were discussing medic. The "he" in that sentence is for Hashimara.
    I did read the text completely. Madara wasn't just talking about that one ability, he specifically mentioned "all his techniques" being on a different scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    From my analogy and the Senju/Uzumaki feats, I can infer with some positive probability that Kyuubi is only amplifying Naruto's feats. We even see Karin, and Nagato that can sense within wide range as if they were omnipresent. Tobirama could sense enemies by just touching the ground, and detect even their number and strength. Moreover, similarly to Uchiha case where some Uchiha don't have Sharingan, you cannot expect all the Senju/Uzumaki to have these feats.

    Going back to kyuubi, I am pretty sure that everyone have noticed how Kyuubi is extremely special among all the Bijus. My opinion is that he might not be that special, but just have copied, and is showing Uzumaki's and Naruto's own feats. Specifically, the chakra cloak in BM is full with facts that prove they are Uzumaki related. Some people would say Rikudo, but I can only see the Uzumaki spiral symbol.

    In conclusion, we have a single Kyuubi being attributed power that are seen in a whole clan. Let not forget that in this manga Senju/Uzumaki are said to have strong body and live long. Healing is part of their natural heritage from Rikudo.
    Then why is it without the Kyuubi's chakra, Naruto can't heal? Why is it that Tsunade had to create a whole new technique to replicate her grandfather's healing ability? Why is it that Nagato remained hurt during the Ame civil war and his legs remained injured years later? There's nothing to suggest that such abilities are of the Senju/Uzumaki clan.

    Sensing others is not a unique trait of the Uzumaki. We have seen dozens of non-Uzumaki showcase the same ability. Not to mention that the Kyuubi's sensory ability is different, what with sensing emotions instead of chakra like normal. And the cloak is directly reflective of the key seal, which was specifically mentioned as the Rikudou Sennin's.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    I guess it is difficult to see that Kyuubi grown inside Naruto. You think he grown without feeding himself. Every time Naruto asked him for chakra, it was to pay a rent - don't forget that. And don't forget, if a Jinchuriki dies, the seal does not break. Rather, the Biju died. It even seems that the Biju and his Jinchuriki share their life force.
    Kyuubi is a Bijuu, meaning a big entity of chakra.
    Seeing as he can recover all his chakra just by meditating, that's how he survived. And no he didn't grow inside Naruto, you can see he is just as big as he was when he pierced Kushina and Yondaime.
    As for the death of the host, that's part of the design of the seal, if they shared their life force then why is Kyuubi untouched when Naruto was wounded?

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    i think to gedo tensi all you need is sharingan and senju power thats why obito was able to do it
    considering that itachi must have given other than shisuis eye with his uzumaki clans power naruto also can do that

  9. #112
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Kyuubi is a Bijuu, meaning a big entity of chakra.
    Seeing as he can recover all his chakra just by meditating, that's how he survived. And no he didn't grow inside Naruto, you can see he is just as big as he was when he pierced Kushina and Yondaime.
    As for the death of the host, that's part of the design of the seal, if they shared their life force then why is Kyuubi untouched when Naruto was wounded?
    Aren't you thinking that Kyyubi is some kind of flesh. Kyuubi is inside Naruto under the form of a liquefied chakra. All Kyuubi itself is chakra. You are using improper terms to say he is recovering chakra. The manga said clearly he was molding his chakra. Molding mean that the chakra come from himself, not an external source.

    Second, life force and flesh are not the same. Even if you cut Naruto's arms, his life force will still be in him. That is why he will not die. On the other end, if you kill Naruto, the Kyuubi will also die, which means Kyuubi's life depends heavily on Naruto's life. This is why I said they are sharing Naruto's life force. Take the example where Kabuto tried to kill Naruto.

    Even when you can see that if Naruto uses Kyuubi's chakra all his life, Kyuubi has to recover from this deal. As far as we know, Kyuubi has never taken external energy. Thus, the energy has to come from Naruto. Hachibi explained how this work between Biju and host. Maybe on a battle where they are buddies, the bijuu can hold back. However, after the battle, the biju will take is chakra back from the host. Here is the evidence that the Kyuubi was feeding on Naruto's chakra.

    Spoiler show


    Naruto said it clearly. As much has Kyuubi is aware of Naruto taking his chakra, Naruto is also aware of Kyuubi taking his chakra.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Aren't you thinking that Kyyubi is some kind of flesh. Kyuubi is inside Naruto under the form of a liquefied chakra. All Kyuubi itself is chakra. You are using improper terms to say he is recovering chakra. The manga said clearly he was molding his chakra. Molding mean that the chakra come from himself, not an external source.

    Second, life force and flesh are not the same. Even if you cut Naruto's arms, his life force will still be in him. That is why he will not die. On the other end, if you kill Naruto, the Kyuubi will also die, which means Kyuubi's life depends heavily on Naruto's life. This is why I said they are sharing Naruto's life force. Take the example where Kabuto tried to kill Naruto.

    Even when you can see that if Naruto uses Kyuubi's chakra all his life, Kyuubi has to recover from this deal. As far as we know, Kyuubi has never taken external energy. Thus, the energy has to come from Naruto. Hachibi explained how this work between Biju and host. Maybe on a battle where they are buddies, the bijuu can hold back. However, after the battle, the biju will take is chakra back from the host. Here is the evidence that the Kyuubi was feeding on Naruto's chakra.

    Spoiler show


    Naruto said it clearly. As much has Kyuubi is aware of Naruto taking his chakra, Naruto is also aware of Kyuubi taking his chakra.
    The Kyuubi and all the Biju can't technically die. If there host is killed they disappear until they can form again.

    And the Biju's are physical manifestations of the chakra of the Juubi. It just so happens that the Juubi is full of natural energy. Meaning, the 9 Biju's chakra has to part natural energy. However, this "demonic chakra" that is poison to most humans is different than the Sage Chakra Naruto, Jiraiya and Kabuto use in ways I can't explain.

    And that link you posted was after Naruto started using RK mode if I am not mistaken. That was when the Kyuubi started taking his chakra, he was never capable of doing so before.
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  12. #114
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Even when you can see that if Naruto uses Kyuubi's chakra all his life, Kyuubi has to recover from this deal. As far as we know, Kyuubi has never taken external energy. Thus, the energy has to come from Naruto. Hachibi explained how this work between Biju and host. Maybe on a battle where they are buddies, the bijuu can hold back. However, after the battle, the biju will take is chakra back from the host. Here is the evidence that the Kyuubi was feeding on Naruto's chakra.
    The most recent chapters had the Kyuubi out of chakra, and replenishing itself without talking anything from Naruto. The sheer difference between their chakra amounts out make it impossible for the Kyuubi to return to normal solely feeling on Naruto's chakra. Naruto has alot, but nothing compared to a Bijuu. And we were later informed that the Kyuubi hadn't been feeling on Naruto's chakra, and that was the reason Naruto was able to keep fighting as long as he did.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    The Kyuubi and all the Biju can't technically die. If there host is killed they disappear until they can form again.

    And the Biju's are physical manifestations of the chakra of the Juubi. It just so happens that the Juubi is full of natural energy. Meaning, the 9 Biju's chakra has to part natural energy. However, this "demonic chakra" that is poison to most humans is different than the Sage Chakra Naruto, Jiraiya and Kabuto use in ways I can't explain.

    And that link you posted was after Naruto started using RK mode if I am not mistaken. That was when the Kyuubi started taking his chakra, he was never capable of doing so before.
    Are you saying that Kyuubi takes chakra from nature? This has never been said in the manga. Besides, the chakra exchanged explained by Hachibi did not say anything about whether you need to be in KM or not. In his prison, Kyuubi often talked about devoring Naruto. My point is clear. Kyuubi is not a natural energy user, and he takes his chakra refill from Naruto.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The most recent chapters had the Kyuubi out of chakra, and replenishing itself without talking anything from Naruto. The sheer difference between their chakra amounts out make it impossible for the Kyuubi to return to normal solely feeling on Naruto's chakra. Naruto has alot, but nothing compared to a Bijuu. And we were later informed that the Kyuubi hadn't been feeling on Naruto's chakra, and that was the reason Naruto was able to keep fighting as long as he did.
    How do you know he didn't take anything from Naruto? do you think Kyuubi is inside Naruto and taking chakra from outside? The least I can say is that you have no reference to back that. If Kyuubi was pomping energy from somewhere, it was from inside Naruto. From the manga, ithe prison inside Naruto is like a normal land with water, and even wood. There, Naruto can create anything, and perform any Jutsu. All the chakra and energy there are Naruto's.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Are you saying that Kyuubi takes chakra from nature? This has never been said in the manga. Besides, the chakra exchanged explained by Hachibi did not say anything about whether you need to be in KM or not. In his prison, Kyuubi often talked about devoring Naruto. My point is clear. Kyuubi is not a natural energy user, and he takes his chakra refill from Naruto.
    Did I say that? We don't know if that is the case but that would make more sense than him taking chakra from Naruto.

    And the Hachibi was speaking about whenever you use the Biju's chakra to transform. In the past however, Naruto has either been "given" the Kyuubi's chakra free of charge, or he could access it via his seal and simply take small amounts of it with no ill affects.

    In fact, while fighting Kakazu Naruto had exausted all of his own chakra, and needed the Kyuubi's chakra to even continue fighting. How in the hell could the Kyuubi take his chakra if he had none left to give?

    As for the Kyuubi "devouring" Naruto, he meant that in the sense that he would take over him mentally, emotionally, and physically when Naruto lost faith in himself and gave into the Kyuubi. This happened while Naruto fought Orochimaru, almost happened while he fought Deidara, and happened again while fighting Pain.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    tsunade is not an uzumaki
    she is from senju clan

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by legacyofitachi View Post
    tsunade is not an uzumaki
    she is from senju clan
    And her grandmother was Uzumaki Mito, wife of Senju Hashirama....she is both
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    How do you know he didn't take anything from Naruto? do you think Kyuubi is inside Naruto and taking chakra from outside? The least I can say is that you have no reference to back that. If Kyuubi was pomping energy from somewhere, it was from inside Naruto. From the manga, ithe prison inside Naruto is like a normal land with water, and even wood. There, Naruto can create anything, and perform any Jutsu. All the chakra and energy there are Naruto's.
    Because the Kyuubi directly mentions it's plan of creating more chakra. We were outright told previously that had the Kyuubi been taking chakra from Naruto, Naruto would have been on empty well before the fight against Obito. The amount of chakra the Kyuubi has is about 100 times more then the amount Naruto has, so clearly the Kyuubi couldn't replenish itself just by taking Naruto's chakra. I don't understand what you mean by "outside". Chakra is created internally, by combining physical/Yang and spiritual/Yin energies together. The Kyuubi doesn't need to take anything externally to replenish itself.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    I think naruto is gonna become the 10 tails jin and sasuke is gonna get the rinnengan and together they will finally break the curse of the uchiha-senju through peace like the elder sage intended, having both his sons work together in harmony and helping maintain peace throughout the world. the sage picked the senju i think naruto is gonna be a leader, while sasuke accepts his flaws and realizes that power isnt simply the answer to everything which the sage wanted his son to realize.together the senju and uchiha will recreate the sage, so i guess them working along side will be like him returning to the world in a way...well thats what i think is gonna happen. kishis spouts a lot about love and peace so i could see something along these lines happening. i mean naruto has won almost all his fights with talk no jutsu after all...
    Last edited by Kid Chameleone; February 01, 2013 at 01:09 AM.

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