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Thread: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

  1. #121
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Are you saying that Kyuubi takes chakra from nature? This has never been said in the manga. Besides, the chakra exchanged explained by Hachibi did not say anything about whether you need to be in KM or not. In his prison, Kyuubi often talked about devoring Naruto. My point is clear. Kyuubi is not a natural energy user, and he takes his chakra refill from Naruto.
    And yet why Hachibi talks about the risks of Chakra Mode?
    Why he tells Naruto this after he mastered Chakra Mode?

    You said there is no proof.
    There is, but you ignored it, so I'm gonna ask you for proof that Kyuubi ate Naruto chakra prior to that

    As for Kyuubi, why then here he said he needed to regroup and form more chakra if he didn't finish it? he clearly says they have no chance without his chakra.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    It's not exactly taking chakra from nature. It's molding it. Like the Sage Mode. If Kyuubi was living by Naruto's own chakra, how's it even possible for Kyuubi to lend Naruto his power? It would be like lending back the power you lent from the same person, lol.
    Naruto and the Kyuubi's chakra were intertwined in the chakra mode and they kind of traded their chakra in that phase. The Jinchuuriki was using the Bijuu power, while the Bijuu was borrowing the user's chakra. However, he stopped doing that at some point, since Naruto is a limited source of chakra, while the Kyuubi is not.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    ^ Without counting the absurdity of it all.
    We saw recently just how big Naruto's chakra is compared to Kyuubi's ( the screw thingy ), even as an Uzumaki super baby can we believe he had enough chakra to let the Kyuubi feed on him without dying?
    A child?

  4. #124
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Did I say that? We don't know if that is the case but that would make more sense than him taking chakra from Naruto.

    And the Hachibi was speaking about whenever you use the Biju's chakra to transform. In the past however, Naruto has either been "given" the Kyuubi's chakra free of charge, or he could access it via his seal and simply take small amounts of it with no ill affects.

    In fact, while fighting Kakazu Naruto had exausted all of his own chakra, and needed the Kyuubi's chakra to even continue fighting. How in the hell could the Kyuubi take his chakra if he had none left to give?

    As for the Kyuubi "devouring" Naruto, he meant that in the sense that he would take over him mentally, emotionally, and physically when Naruto lost faith in himself and gave into the Kyuubi. This happened while Naruto fought Orochimaru, almost happened while he fought Deidara, and happened again while fighting Pain.
    Against Kakuzu, Naruto was worn out, but this does not mean he has exhausted all his chakra. In fact, you don't understand the chakra process. Naruto using FRS means he still is using is own wind element, which is an evidence that he still have is own chakra. You should also understand that usually, Naruto use Kyuubi's chakra when power is needed (strength of Jutsu).

    The problem here is that you guys used facts that are not documented in the manga, and when a fact is documented, you do everything to make it not apllicable to other situation. During Hachibi's explanation, it appears clearly that when Naruto and Kurama are not buddies, there is a trade of chakra. Besides, it is clear from Kurama himself that Kurama cannot interact with the outside world without Naruto's permission. This has been possible only when they became friends. Before they became friend, Kuaram grew up inside Naruto, and this is clear because Naruto grown from baby to teenager. The only possible way for Kurama to replenish himself without interacting with the outside world is the process of chakra leaking through the seal. Minato managed this during the sealing.

    In my opinion, it is impossible for Kurama to used the outside natural energy without switching with Naruto, something that was impossible before Naruto became perfect Jichuriki. The sealing jutsu Minato used connect Kyuubi to Naruto's chakra circulatory system as Kabuto explained. This is how both of them can trade their chakra and energy.

    ---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    And yet why Hachibi talks about the risks of Chakra Mode?
    Why he tells Naruto this after he mastered Chakra Mode?

    You said there is no proof.
    There is, but you ignored it, so I'm gonna ask you for proof that Kyuubi ate Naruto chakra prior to that

    As for Kyuubi, why then here he said he needed to regroup and form more chakra if he didn't finish it? he clearly says they have no chance without his chakra.
    I think there are facts that we will never agree on unless Kishi gives some explanation. Naruto was a baby, and Kyuubi was smaller at that time. We also know that Kyuubi grew up with time passed inside Naruto. We also know that Kyuubi is unable to interact with the real world without switching and taking control of Naruto's body. We also know that before Naruto became perfect Jinchurki, there never switched. Thus, I think my conclusion of Kyuubi growing by using Naruto's own energy is logical that all of you trying to deny it. Fact is, Kyuubi's chakra circulatory system is connected to Naruto's chakra circulatory through a muscle in Naruto's heart (from Kabuto). This is where the exchange has been going on since Naruto was a baby.

    Can someone tell me why the Biju dies when the Jichuriki dies? While waiting, my answer is that it is because the life of the Biju is fueled by that of the host. There is a symbiotic relationship here. Kyuubi uses Naruto's resources to live everyday. And when Naruto needs his power, Kyuubi gives him some for the interst of both of them.

  5. #125
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    We also know that Kyuubi is unable to interact with the real world without switching and taking control of Naruto's body. We also know that before Naruto became perfect Jinchurki, there never switched.
    Apparently, the switch is unnecessary for Kurama to create chakra.
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/611/8
    I can't say this is the method he used to reach his full size back with it, though.

  6. #126
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Against Kakuzu, Naruto was worn out, but this does not mean he has exhausted all his chakra. In fact, you don't understand the chakra process. Naruto using FRS means he still is using is own wind element, which is an evidence that he still have is own chakra. You should also understand that usually, Naruto use Kyuubi's chakra when power is needed (strength of Jutsu).

    The problem here is that you guys used facts that are not documented in the manga, and when a fact is documented, you do everything to make it not apllicable to other situation. During Hachibi's explanation, it appears clearly that when Naruto and Kurama are not buddies, there is a trade of chakra. Besides, it is clear from Kurama himself that Kurama cannot interact with the outside world without Naruto's permission. This has been possible only when they became friends. Before they became friend, Kuaram grew up inside Naruto, and this is clear because Naruto grown from baby to teenager. The only possible way for Kurama to replenish himself without interacting with the outside world is the process of chakra leaking through the seal. Minato managed this during the sealing.

    In my opinion, it is impossible for Kurama to used the outside natural energy without switching with Naruto, something that was impossible before Naruto became perfect Jichuriki. The sealing jutsu Minato used connect Kyuubi to Naruto's chakra circulatory system as Kabuto explained. This is how both of them can trade their chakra and energy.
    You must be kidding...

    On the one hand you you tell us that Naruto is making chakra for everyone in the alliance and then they are using it to perfrom techniques right? It is not there chakra that is allowing them to perform what they are doing while they have the cloaks, but Naruto's correct?

    By that same token, it was not Naruto's chakra that formed FRS, but the Kyuubi's. The only reason he was standing upright while fighting Kakazu was because he was using the Kyuubi's chakra. When Naruto fought Sasuke at the Valley of the End and took on the Kyuubi shroud, it was no his chakra that formed a Rasengan, but the Kyuubi's under his control. Same thing applies here to FRS while he fought Kakazu.

    Think for a moment, If he wasn't using the Kyuubi's chakra, why would Tenzou of had to have been present while he was training the damn thing? He was using the Kyuubi's chakra for the majority of the training because he lacked enough of his own to keep making Kage Bushin.

    You seriously have contracted yourself so bad here it isn't even funny.

    Also, it is perfectly possible for the Kyuubi to replenish energy by himself, just as humans replenish energy, through rest. The Kyuubi a demon, he does not need to eat, he simply needs to rest in order to re-gan energy which has been plainly obvious the entire manga. If a Biju ever needed to rely on the chakra of a human to replenish themselves there would be no Jinchuriki's because they would all die.

    I don't need the manga to tell me that it's common sense....
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Apparently, the switch is unnecessary for Kurama to create chakra.
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/611/8
    I can't say this is the method he used to reach his full size back with it, though.
    Your argument is not correct in the first place. Here, Kurama is not creating chakra. Rather, he is molding chakra. This mean that the element he is using to mold that cahkra are also inside him. For example, a Ninja has physical energy stored in his body cell. By training or experiencing battle, he also accumulate spiritual energy. Now when he wants to perform a jutsu, he will mold his chakra by combining his physical energy with his spiritual energy. By analogy, Kyuubi must already have whatever he need to mold his chakra.

    When Naruto wants to use SM, he has to store spiritual natural energy, then balance it with his own energy. To prove that Kyuubi is not using external source, let take the time when he gave his chakra to Kakashi.

    Before giving his chakra to Kakashi, Kyuubi had to switch with Naruto. This mean that Kyuubi takes control of Naruto's body so that he can send the chakra through it. My point is that if Kyuubi cannot send chakra to the outside without switching with Naruto, then he cannot also gather chakra from the outside without switching with Naruto. This makes sense because he has to control the cells of Naruto's body in order to do the transaction. Thus, if Kyuubi was gathering energy from another source, then this source must be Naruto. The reason is that Kyuubi is connected to Naruto's chakra circulatory system. This is how they exchange resources mutually.

    Finally, I am pretty sure that if Kyuubi was collecting nature energy from outside, Kishi will have shown it explicitly because it would be a major twist. In addition, when discussing this issue, you should not forget that Naruto's consciousness is a big universe. There is water in which Naruto drown when fighting Orochimaru. There is a prison, an apartment, etc. all these things represent the environment and resources which condition Kyuubi's life. These are materialization of how Naruto's own power is being used to confine and guarantie the survival of the Kyuubi. I am pretty sure that the water, air, etc inside Naruto are symbol of Kyuubi drinking and breathing there. Their sources is purely Naruto's body.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Again I must ask, where is this idea that the Kyuubi requires an external source to replenish chakra coming from? Not only do we have the Kyuubi directly stating that it creates chakra, but the original seal didn't switch their chakras, but simply allow the Kyuubi's chakra to bleed into Naruto's.

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  10. #129
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    You must be kidding...

    On the one hand you you tell us that Naruto is making chakra for everyone in the alliance and then they are using it to perfrom techniques right? It is not there chakra that is allowing them to perform what they are doing while they have the cloaks, but Naruto's correct?

    By that same token, it was not Naruto's chakra that formed FRS, but the Kyuubi's. The only reason he was standing upright while fighting Kakazu was because he was using the Kyuubi's chakra. When Naruto fought Sasuke at the Valley of the End and took on the Kyuubi shroud, it was no his chakra that formed a Rasengan, but the Kyuubi's under his control. Same thing applies here to FRS while he fought Kakazu.

    Think for a moment, If he wasn't using the Kyuubi's chakra, why would Tenzou of had to have been present while he was training the damn thing? He was using the Kyuubi's chakra for the majority of the training because he lacked enough of his own to keep making Kage Bushin.

    You seriously have contracted yourself so bad here it isn't even funny.

    Also, it is perfectly possible for the Kyuubi to replenish energy by himself, just as humans replenish energy, through rest. The Kyuubi a demon, he does not need to eat, he simply needs to rest in order to re-gan energy which has been plainly obvious the entire manga. If a Biju ever needed to rely on the chakra of a human to replenish themselves there would be no Jinchuriki's because they would all die.

    I don't need the manga to tell me that it's common sense....
    --- Edited on 02/03/2013 -- For the sake of correctness, you should see how things work in the manga. In the valley of the end, Naruto first Ransengan was blue in color. The last Rasengan that used the Kyuubi chakra was red in color. You should understand that.

    Naruto only learned the chakra conversion lately, and against Kakuzu he was using only his own chakra. That is why everything he did was blue as well. It is clear that Naruto showed Kyuubi's eye pattern but his eyes were still blue. Only the anger turned Kyuubi on.

    Before Naruto controlled KM, there was always a different in the chakra color. Blue chakra was Naruto's and red Chakra was Kyuubi's.

    Besides, you guys need to understand that part of Naruto's own energy was being used to keep Kyuubi in prison. This should be understandable, but you clearly don't understand that.

    Spoiler show


    Here Kushina is explaining why her seal weakened. A portion of the host energy is used to keep the strength of the seal. You need to see how much energy is necessary to keep a demon fox from breaking the seal. This the reason Minato had to cut the Kyuubi's chakra in half before sealing him in Naruto. Here are my list:

    Naruto vs Mizuki: Naruto's own chakra
    Naruto vs Zabuza: Naruto's own chakra
    Naruto vs Haku: Naruto's own chakra untilm Sasuke went down
    Naruto vs Kiba: Naruto's own chakra
    Naruto vs Neiji: Naruto's own chakra until his tenketsus were locked
    Naruto vs Gaara: Naruto's own chakra until he got caught in Gaara's sand
    Naruto vs Kakuzu: Naruto's own chakra
    Naruto vs Sasuke: Naruto's own chakra until he got a hole in his chest.

    Basically, Naruto can make up to 500 Kage bushin with his own chakra at 12 years old. Try to guess what he can do right now.

    You guys don't understand yet the power group in the manga. Uchihas get their power from the eyes. Uzumaki are actually the people said to have long life.

    Spoiler show


    Here, you can see that the Uzumaki village is called the village of long life. Among these people, the strongest are used to be Kyuubi host, and Kushina was one of them. Again, while Kyuubi is a chakra monster, it take another chakra monster to lock him and control him.

    For example, Nagato was using Rinnegan because he was a chakra monster himself. I saw some people saying that Rinnegan boosted his chakra, which is clearly plain wrong. If Rinnegan gives chakra and life force, then why Madara did not get chakra and life force from it, and had to connect to gedo Mazou.

    Another fact is that Hashimara is the human evidence that in the narutoverse, there are people who are stronger and have chakra greater than that of a Kyuubi. And seriously, I am pretty sure Hahsimara was not just Senju. Ima sure he was more Uzumaki-Senju descendent.

    Anyway, I am pretty sure the Kages will reveal some juicy truth, and Kishi will show us the true worth of Naruto's own power.
    Last edited by so6pww; February 03, 2013 at 01:36 PM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    You are making absolutely no fucking sense anymore. I am so lost in your train of thought it's not even funny.

    For example, what in the hell is this supposed to mean

    "For the sake of correctness, you should see how things work in the manga. In the valley of the end, Naruto first Sharingan was blue in color. The last Sharingan that used the Kyuubi chakra was red in color. You should understand that."


    And just to let it be known, Hashirama does not have greater chakra and is not stronger than the Kyuubi. Hashirama is unable to replicate the power of the Kyuubi. While it is entirely possibly that he strongest human since the Sage and his Sons, he is not more powerful than the Kyuubi.

    His Moukton skills allow him to stop the Kyuubi, but that in no way shape or form makes him stronger. Just like Naruto isn't stronger than the Kyuubi despite defeating it in the way he did, or that Madara is no stronger than the Kyuubi, he hypnotized it with the Sharigan.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Hmm, Hashirama was able to subdue the bijuu though, so who knows? One thing we do know that Naruto won't ever come near matching Rikudou Sennin's power. He couldn't even match Nagato's power despite Kyuubi and Bee with him, and Nagato's a watered down version of Rikudou Sennin.

    Though, you can argue Madara's weaker than the Kyuubi because he never overpowered it like Hashirama has done.


    I could see Naruto and Sasuke (body and eyes, ideals) being able to be better than Nagato, combined, but they can't even touch Rikudou Sennin canonically. Dunno why anyone would ever think that.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    You are making absolutely no fucking sense anymore. I am so lost in your train of thought it's not even funny.

    For example, what in the hell is this supposed to mean

    "For the sake of correctness, you should see how things work in the manga. In the valley of the end, Naruto first Sharingan was blue in color. The last Sharingan that used the Kyuubi chakra was red in color. You should understand that."


    And just to let it be known, Hashirama does not have greater chakra and is not stronger than the Kyuubi. Hashirama is unable to replicate the power of the Kyuubi. While it is entirely possibly that he strongest human since the Sage and his Sons, he is not more powerful than the Kyuubi.

    His Moukton skills allow him to stop the Kyuubi, but that in no way shape or form makes him stronger. Just like Naruto isn't stronger than the Kyuubi despite defeating it in the way he did, or that Madara is no stronger than the Kyuubi, he hypnotized it with the Sharigan.
    I understand. Some student never understood what the teacher said, no matter how he try his best.

  14. #133
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    I understand. Some student never understood what the teacher said, no matter how he try his best.
    Actually you said Naruto had a blue Sharingan, and then later a red one.
    You'll excuse him if he's confused, I admit I am too

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    For the sake of correctness, you should see how things work in the manga. In the valley of the end, Naruto first Sharingan was blue in color. The last Sharingan that used the Kyuubi chakra was red in color. You should understand that.

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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    ^ Yeah I made this mistake. I mean a blue Rasengan, and a Red Rasengan. However, I understand why he is reacting this way. If he really wanted to discuss, he would have corrected the mistake since we both know what we were talking about. I did not bother explaining because he has decided to dwell on his view.

    This guy is doing everything to say that Hashimara wasn't stronger than Kyuubi. Hashimara bested Madara + Kyuubi together going wild. Hashimara did not even bother becoming the host of Kyuubi. His cells can strengthen any human being, and allow to subdue the great Juubi.

    If Delbi wanted were really reasoning, the discussion should be off long time ago.

    ---------- Post added at 10:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Hmm, Hashirama was able to subdue the bijuu though, so who knows? One thing we do know that Naruto won't ever come near matching Rikudou Sennin's power. He couldn't even match Nagato's power despite Kyuubi and Bee with him, and Nagato's a watered down version of Rikudou Sennin.

    Though, you can argue Madara's weaker than the Kyuubi because he never overpowered it like Hashirama has done.


    I could see Naruto and Sasuke (body and eyes, ideals) being able to be better than Nagato, combined, but they can't even touch Rikudou Sennin canonically. Dunno why anyone would ever think that.
    How do you know that Naruto does not come closed to Rikudo? Can you say how what was Rikudo's power and how he get it? Do you know Rikudo's age when he fought Juubi?

    In facts, The way Naruto and Sasuke are is completely different from the traditional elder and younger son rivalry. Madara had no Hashimara's cell when they fought, and Hashimara wasn't a Jinchuriki. If we go by the story, the only hero who was Jinchuriki was Rikudo. Naruto is more like him. Sasuke is heading towards getting Orochimaru's power, or being absorbed by Orochimaru. From my interpretation of the story, there is another power similar to Juubi or Kyuubi out there. This power is what is making Orochimaru powerful.

    The concept of eyes and body is not quite the same in the Naruto-Sasuke case. They each have additional source of power, and clearly Sasuke might end up implanting some Hashimara's cell which is the body side. In my opinion, the new generation is seeking to surpass Rikudo himself, and one of them will stand tall as the true Rikudo Sennin at the end.
    Last edited by so6pww; February 03, 2013 at 01:37 PM.

  16. #135
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto is Getting Closer to the Sage of Six Paths!

    If he turns out to be some random reincarnation of the sage, it will just be another tasteless cliche for Kishimoto capitalize on and the last one on the list to cross off, of course.

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