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Another reason is that you don't even know the meaning of a key. A key is used to lock or open a door. Naruto obtained a Key from Gerotera to open the seal. It wasn't the first time that the key was used. Jiraya also used the key during the timeskip to train Naruto on Kyuubi control. The key does not do anything to the seal apart from opening and locking. Only Kyuubi chakra was the new variable.
After Naruto got the new chakra, he lock the seal, and the seal was transform. Better, Naruto even knew how to use the new seal as if he had seen it before. These foreshadow some sort of knowledge similar to when someone unlock Rinnegan or MS. The mutation of the seal from Hakke Fujin to Rikudo, the fact that Naruto knew how the new seal work are signs of something big that you cannot ignore with some lame reasoning. For your own interest:
Minato perform the Hakke Fuijin and gave its key to Naruto. After receiving Kyuubi's chakra, Naruto obtained the Six Paths seal. Both seals are different and they have different name. Your interpretation will not change these facts. If you cannot understand that, then agree with me that we cannot agree of the topic. Kishi will bring the final verdict.
The fact is, the Key unlocked the Hakke Fujin's potential. Naruto opened it all the way, Jiraiya never did that. By finally defeating the Kyuubi, the seal allowed Naruto to do this: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c499/12.html
Naruto then locked the seal again here: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c499/13.html
And the Kyuubi's Cage now evolved into this: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c499/14.html
Notice how similar it looks to how it originally did: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c496/11.html
And how similar the opening and closing of the seal are http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c496/12.html
Seals simply don't come out of no where. The Kyuubi chakra isn't capable of simply manifesting a seal, that makes no sense. The "facts" you are saying, are simply your interpretation of what happened and aren't facts at all. The seal evolved into what it is because Naruto defeated the Kyuubi. Please show exactly where the Kyuubi's chakra manifested a new seal. Go ahead, I'll wait.
I didn't exactly know where to post this, but I have some very important questions. I want answers, so I will post some of my reasons for my questions. Why do you think So6Ps figure is silhouetted? Kishi went as far ahead as to draw his two sons.. Why didn't he do the same to So6P? What I think is either he has a major role to play in the end or he is not that important to the plot at all. As far as I know some silhouetted/masked characters did some important twists to the plot. 1. Akatsuki's leader turns out to be Pein who turns out to be Nagato, a somewhat important villain, 2. Tobi, aha turned out to be Obito lol anyone could've guessed, .. (Orochimaru is the final villain which is not at all surprising and we've somehow gone a little bit to how it was back in the good ol' days where valley of the end was like whoa.. Senju/Uchiha history class.)
What I am meaning to say is, it is so much better if Naruto is just a truly great successor for all what have happened through all the stupid generations, rivalry and clashes. But, at the same time.. reincarnation doesn't mean possessing the same physical abilities, traits or roots to a clan from their past to say the least he does not require to have eyes and body of So6P's reincarnation. Reincarnation is mainly a flow of energy and the wisdom carried out through all of our past lives. So, why wouldn't Naruto be? What if the derived seal he used on Kyuubi unintentionally or unconsciously, some sort of memory/wisdom that is stored inside Naruto's mind?
I understand THE 8 trigrams seal is just how it was created to be. But then, why does kurama seem so surprised? 1) Either he thinks Minato was such a genius. 2) Or he realizes Naruto should have some unbeknownst relation to So6P 3)Or he's simply baffled that giving his chakra to Naruto could do such a thing. Since Kishi heavily uses Shinto beliefs and Shin Buddhism, it is not very hard to believe he decided to do something like this.
Then again, what's up with all the Hashirama and Madara talk? Why is it so important? Why Kakashi and Obito, Naruto and Sasuke? So far Hashirama only had wood elements. But now we do see he was a sage, too. It was EMS against Senjutsu + wood element. But now, it is Rinnegan against the same jutsu. How about Sasuke: it's a very manipulative EMS and Naruto Kyuubi mode. But to defeat someone like Madara's caliber Hashirama has to be a much more stronger opponent. Which I don't think would be easy, now. And at the same while, Orochimaru is plotting from the behind. I think he would be much more harder to handle.
While Madara awakened the Rinnegan and both him and Hashirama turning out to be much more superior and stronger shinobi than Naruto and Sasuke, I believe that there will be a chance that Naruto turns out to be So6P's reincarnation or another Sage of his calibre. Either Sasuke would realize his intentions were not very meaningful, on the brink of his death ask Naruto to take his eyes much like how Obito did or once Sasuke comes to his senses he decides to fight along with Naruto and resemble the two sons finally succeeding the true intentions of So6P should happen. While I prefer the latter, no one knows what Kishi thinks or how he might want to change the plot. So, I would like to read your answers. Possibly, the So6P being just a troll which will make more sense because even the resurrected are just hokage telling the fated clashes of Senju/Uchiha, how it brought disaster to the world and such.. Since Will of Fire seems to be the theme, I really do not see how So6P has anything to do with it. I just would like to see how the then-konoha-11 and similar shinobi carrying the teachings to the future where Naruto being the one to bring a much more clear picture to the concept of Will of Fire . It will be much simpler this being a kid's anime (*cough*), don't you think?
---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 PM ----------
Well, I will not stop pushing the nail deep down. I think that soon or later, Naruto will have power greater or similar to Rikudo. I think that the sooner the fandom will accept, the more they will enjoy the rest of the manga. From using a seal we have never seen before to converting Kyuubi chakra and sealing into other shinobi, you can see that Naruto is obtaining power from somewhere offscreen. Unless Kishi shows that Jiraya taught him before, the only explanation I can give his that he has some knowledge burried in him - a sort of Rinnegan.
In my opinion, Naruto is surpassing all of them in terms of power and judgement, and I think we will see it very soon. In the past, I used to say that Kishi does not give lot of Jutsu to Naruto because Naruto will obtain a power that will make him know a lot of jutsu without learning. It sound like Rinnegan, but it could be something else. Kyuubi saying Rikudo prove my opinion, and I think it is clear.
One thing I have also noticed is that Naruto in BM can move faster and track better than a simple Sharingan. We even saw that in one tail cloak, he could outperform 2 tomoes. Given all the Jutsu Naruto has seen on the battlefield including Rinnegan, I will not be surprised to see him knowing everything. A simple example is matching the chakra he gave to the shinobi to each one of them. How did Naruto find out the unique trait of the chakra of each shinobi? I think it has to do with a special chakra detector, and I believe Kishi went back to Sasuke to keep things balanced.
I have only read the first post. I can't be bothered to try and catch up with 150 other replies, so in case I say something which others already have pointed out, then I apologise in advance.
In any case, you are far too liberal with your interpretations. Your so-called 'evidence' for the theory aren't as conclusive as you seem to believe.
For starters, it is extremely improbable that Naruto differentiated the chakra to such an extent that he manipulated every source into their specific elemental affinity. Instead, I think it's more supposed to be interpreted as him giving them a strong source of chakra, corresponding to each unique flow of chakra in each person. He most likely surpassed Minato in the way that he can spread his chakra in a far greater scale, i.e. to far more people than Minato could. Minato certainly could not manipulate all five elementals, and even if you were to argue that Naruto surpassd him and there is thus the possibility that he can, your whole argument when it comes to this point seems to revert back to the fact that in order to be able to do it efficiently, Naruto HAS to be able to manipulate each element to suit each individual. Following that logic, Minato should also have been to manipulate each element. Seeing as he couldn't, your argument is flawed.
All in all, this doesn't have to be referred to as a theory. You should've written 'fact' instead. It is fairly obvious he will end up being the next Sage of the Six Paths. They've even started to mimic his appearance when Naruto uses the Kyuubi chakra. Hell, he is now most likely the Jinchuuriki of 8 beasts and is bound to become the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi.
So my interpretation is a "fallacy" whereas yours are "solid facts". I won't comment more on this though. All in all, your arrogance is radiating throughout each and every post.Quote:
No offence, but your theory is mainly assumptions. If the uniqueness of chakra is linked to the elements, then, by extension, there should at most be 5! or 120 different chakra types. How do you explain the fact that, according to the very panel that you love to post, Naruto matches it to each INDIVIDUAL'S unique trait? Based on that, it is obvious that there is more to the unique chakra traits than simply the elemental type.Quote:
Yes, it's not impossible for a character to see chakra composition, but last time I checked, Naruto did not have the Byakugan. Also, if we're dealing with logical inaccuracy, your conclusion above is neither valid, nor necessarily true. You're saying that because Naruto has mastered chakra control and his chakra supply is enormous, he should be able to produce any other elemental type. It is not something you can conclude based on your two premises. Kisame also had an enormous chakra reserve, and clearly, he was very skilled at chakra control too (he used water jutsus very proficiently, as an example). How come he wasn't able to use any other elements? Again, there is more to this than simply chakra magnitude. Otherwise, Kekkai Genkai wouldn't be anything special.
The other variable is how Naruto know the unique traits of each shinobi. There are two possibilities: (1) He saw them using their elements before, or (2) his BM mode gives him eyes that can differentiate chakra nature, or even possible solution is that he know can feel people chakra just like Tobirama and Minato. Recall that in SM, Naruto was able to tell that Kakashi was dead because he couldn't sense his chakra.
These are all assumptions where you believe that you have a perfect understandings of how it works. For all we know, the essence in both methods are the same. Even the Kyuubi itself stated it: "Minato.. He's learned the EXACT same method you used when you passed your chakra to him as a child". It seems like Naruto has simply used the method in a much bigger scale, hence the "surpassed" aspect of the panel.Quote:
As a whole, Naruto is a predictable manga. Naruto will be the new Rikudo Sennin, there's no doubt about it. It is clear by simply comparing his appearance during the influence of the Kyuubi with the Rikudo Sennin's. Your outlined reasons, however, are flawed.
That's completely inaccurate. If the chakra was already molded it would not be able to be changed into other forms. He gave them basic chakra that they can use. He gave them NOTHING in the form of elemental affinity, kekkei genkai, kekkei touta, shape manipulation, or onmyouton. The ninja themselves mold the chakra based on THEIR own abilities.Originally Posted by so6pww
This is also innacurate. A ninja is born with ONE element they are affinite to, and through training are capable of gaining proficiency with others. Unless they are born with a kekkei genkai which allows compound elements or birth with a special element.
This is also innacurate. Kakashi has 3 elements. Lightning, water, and earth. And it's also wrong that Jounin "can have a minimum of 2 elements". It's stated that most jounin can USE atleast 2 elements. This is because they've trained throughout their lives and managed to perfect a second element on top of the one they usually use. Because it takes years and years to do such a thing for the average ninja, most Jounin don't reach beyond 2 elements. Kakashi is a genius, so he managed 3. Sasuke and Itachi are geniuses and have acquired 2 far earlier than the average Jounin would. One of them thanks to being Uchiha. The other thanks to being naturally affinite to it.Quote:
Once again this is completely innacurate, because basic chakra has no elemental affinity. There's only ONE type of chakra, and it's just that: chakra. Chakra takes no elemental affinity until the person using that chakra uses elementalization to change it into an element. Naruto wouldn't give water chakra to a fire user because he is incapable of doing so. He gives them basic, non-elemental chakra that that person then uses to change into whatever element they want.Quote:
You've absolutely nothing in the manga to prove otherwise. And even if he were capable of granting elemental chakra to people, the literal only element he could grant is wind, because it's the only elementalization he is capable of performing.
TL;DR: stop making things up.
And no. We've seen kakashi used the fire, lightning, water and earth. So it means he can used at least 4 elements.
---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------
The paper test tells you what element you are aligned to. But when you create chakra normally, that chakra is simply chakra, it has no affinity, it is not wind, its is not earth, it is pure chakra (energy).
If everyone's regular chakra had an element, it would look and act different, like elemental chakra does. But regular chakra doesn't, it all behaves the same way.
Last edited by Delbi; April 01, 2013 at 08:03 PM.
After going through the hell of knowing the background stories of Obito, Madara and Hashirama, I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of atrocity SO6P is going to be. If that awful day will ever come, I wish that Naruto would get himself baited out by a huge pile of ramen and ass (both genders), thus I won't need to submerge myself into a story which volume could be compared to a shallow puddle of cat piss.
The hunt for the Red October this won't be. NEVER AGAIN. No!
I know you're reading this, Kishimoto.
No more bullshit flashbacks.
It has to be noted that even among people with affinities, there are degrees of power. For example, Zabuza is a suiton user, but so are Kisame and Tobirama. Yet, their level of control over the element far eclipse Zabuza's. You could attribute this to practice, but not all things need practice, so things just come easier for some than others. A perfect example is Naruto and Sage Mode. He perfected it in short time, yet Jiraiya who used it for years never perfected it.
The notion that Naruto can out of the blue form chakra into any element is preposterous. Despite creating FRS, Naruto has little to no command in any other way over his own element, Futon, aside from Futon: Rasengan and putting wind chakra into trench knives.
And you don't get banned because you are critical, we're all critical of one another. My guess is you get banned because you are very pompous and you have an extreme attitude and insult people on a regular basis. But I'm not a mod so I don't know the exact reasons, nor do I care.