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Thread: Naruto 619 Discussion

  1. #121
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gats View Post
    It is hard to blame because Tobirama didn't know the future and it was nearly after hard times when there were endless wars between clans, we're not in our current western society's context. And even if he didn't have faith in the Uchiha, he didn't intend to humiliate them on purpose. He never denied their humanity, he saw them as too dangerous, I'd even say that, given the context, he has been kinda softer than expected. I've never said he was right, considering the consequences he was obviously wrong, but AGAIN, it's too easy to judge afterwards. So considering the context of his era and what he knew at the time, he made a fine choice or a very understandable one if you prefer.
    Except that the whole point and promise of "Konoha" was to end those wars by bringing the two most powerful of those clans together. As part of this coming together, the Uchiha even accepted and trusted a Senju as Hokage.

    The thing is we don't even have to judge him and his followers by our standards, merely their own. How do his, Danzou's, and Hiruzen's actions and approaches measure up to the Will of Fire? Or is there a hidden clause in the description of the"Will of Fire" that says "this applies only if you accept and never challenge the primacy of the Senju?"

    Anyway, how many have already called his greatest jutsu accomplishment an abomination? Again, not our standards, but theirs.

    Third, and this goes to the massacre/genocide, which Tobirama justifies here and even blames the Uchiha for. Why would the truth of what happened be so destructive to the cause of Konoha that Itachi was able to use the threat of disclosure to keep Danzou in line?

    Again, their standards, not ours.

    Look, I believe that we're building toward a denouement of Tobirama and those who followed him philosophically. I would like to see Hiruzen undergo at least a bit of redemption when the time comes. Frankly, Madara's and Tobi's evil follows and is a a reaction to Tobirama's evil. I believe/predict the manga is where it is storywise to defeat this evil first.
    Last edited by Garvan; February 05, 2013 at 07:20 AM. Reason: Typo

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  3. #122
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dattebayo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Hmmmmm just thinking.... Previous Hokages join the fight (plus perhaps current) Hashirama Mokuton + Nartuto Mokuton boosting chakra would be an interesting combo

    Hashirama : "Tobirama!! water my f*cking plants you idiot!"
    Naruto : "No need Mokupops!"
    Tobirama : "Always wanting me to help you with your crops!"

  4. #123
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Garvan View Post
    Except that the whole point and promise of "Konoha" was to end those wars by bringing the two most powerful of those clans together. As part of this coming together, the Uchiha even accepted and trusted a Senju as Hokage.

    The thing is we don't even have to judge him and his followers by our standards, merely their own. How do his, Danzou's, and Hiruzen's actions and approaches measure up to the Will of Fire? Or is their a hidden clause in the description of the"Will of Fire" that says "this applies only if you accept and never challenge the primacy of the Senju?"

    Anyway, how many have already called his greatest jutsu accomplishment an abomination? Again, not our standards, but theirs.

    Third, and this goes to the massacre/genocide, which Tobirama justifies here and even blames the Uchiha for. Why would the truth of what happened be so destructive to the cause of Konoha that Itachi was able to use the threat of disclosure to keep Danzou in line?

    Again, their standards, not ours.

    Look, I believe that we're building toward a denouement of Tobirama and those who followed him philosophically. I would like to see Hiruzen undergo at least a bit of redemption when the time comes. Frankly, Madara's and Tobi's evil follows and is a a reaction to Tobirama's evil. I believe/predict the manga is where it is storywise to defeat this evil first.
    It's true that the promise was to end the long Senju-Uchiha battle, and it ended for real.

    Will of Fire doesn't favor Senju or Uchiha, or any other special clan. It favors the Fire Country, therefore, Konoha's good above anything else. All mentioned names did what they believe it was the best for Konoha. And since Hiruzen and Danzou have no ties to the Senju by origin, it's needless to say they could have no biased opinion on the matter.

    I have stated this earlier on, but I can do it here again. That abomination could have played a great part in Konoha's success. Besides, it was more of a research and it was Tobirama who labeled it as Kinjutsu and he probably never taught anything about this technique to anyone else.

    Well, let's be fair. Uchiha were to be blamed. They were running the Police Office, but they weren't satisfied with it and started an uprise. They weren't the only one in the village who had no political decision rights, if that was their reasoning. Besides, Itachi threatened to reveal the secrets of the Root to the world, not the massacre itself, I believe. I don't think the rest of the world would empathize with the Uchiha.

  5. #124
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Oh come on let's ge serious here, who cares if he's the originator of those cells ? Madara has still got the Rinnegan, Mokuton will never reach the possibilities that the Rinnegan give to its user
    Hashirama on his own would put up a good fight, but would lose to current rinnegan madara. However if all the previous hokage fought madara, madara would almost certainly lose.

  6. #125
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    And I'm not buying this "Tobirama got them together to keep them under his watch" thing. That's the worst strategy. If your goal is to prevent any action that could concern government's authority, you want the ones you suspect divided, not grouped as a whole.

  7. #126
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    cool chapter! totally satisfied by the first 2 chapters of volume 65. we discovered a lot of things,and a lot of others are gonna be shown as well!

  8. #127
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    I somehow get the feeling not only the Edo tensei'd hokages will join the fight against Madara, but the current -kages will join as well. The fight wouldn't be complete with the old generation praising the new (who mostly just talks big).

    Edit:
    The whole "love gives us power" and "Uchiha love > Senju love" was soo stupid.

  9. #128
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zasz's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    I must say that Naruto is slowly returning to epic levels.
    Hashirama really is an idiot, but that's why I like his character, and LOL at the fact that it's his fault if Tsunade started gambling. XD
    All in all this has been an excellent chapter and Sasuke's questions are pretty much those that we predicted.
    I quite liked also the background of the Uchiha Mangekyou Sharingan, well, we already knew that, but oh well....
    Now I'm looking forward to seeing Hashirama's and Minato's answers and I'm starting to think that the Hokage will be going where the others are; I can see already Naruto's reaction.

  10. #129
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Awesome how Minato was introduced to the others. Btw, hashirama looks like an idiot,though in battle he is a god! it was cool to see how even outsiders, such as suigetsu from the mist, are aware of him being the strongest of ever.

  11. #130
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted toussaintac's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Ha. So Hashirama is a goof ball and he's non-combative. Nice. Interesting since he's looked at as the strongest dude in those days. Tobirama is the polar opposite. He's hardcore and matter-of-fact. They are exact opposites. I can see why Tobirama initially came up with ET now. Hashirama was the one that taught Tsunade to gamble. Wowzers. What a guy. Seems we got a lot of stuff in one chapter.

    The sharingan is awakened when emotions surface in an Uchiha and special chakra is created and gives birth to the sharingan. Pretyy cool. That's pretty consistent with how you get MS. Killing your closest friend just makes those emotions rise faster than if they were kiled by someone else, I guess. It's similar to how Goku was able to get Gohan to go Super Saiyan by thinking about all his friends and family being killed. This was a fun chapter.

    Also, it seems Orochimaru doesn't care about konoha after all. Will be interesting to see what he does when this is over. Almost certain he won't attack Sasuke. He'll probably help Sasuke up until the time Sasuke is completely worn out and beat up or something along those lines.
    Last edited by toussaintac; February 05, 2013 at 08:02 AM.
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  12. #131
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    It explains a lot, but so childish. It's just like the jokes people do about uchiha's logic.

    And what about sasuke's sharingan. Is that his original MS? Shouldn't it have changed??
    Mangekyou sharingan tobi is a spiral of errors that keeps growing indefinitely.

  13. #132
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member enmymiguel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Wow soo hashirama is a clown. Lol

    The way they show him in the past. I though he was like itachi or minato character. But he just more goofy then naruto.
    I must create a real village, until i demonstrate what a real kage is. I cant Die!

  14. #133
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by enmymiguel View Post
    Wow soo hashirama is a clown. Lol

    The way they show him in the past. I though he was like itachi or minato character. But he just more goofy then naruto.
    Thats what makes him so epic. A few pages ago someone explained perfectly why Hashirama would act this way. I could see him turning serious in an instant just like how Minato can be cold in a second. A guy of his status IMO should be a goofball otherwise he would probably go insane. Look at Madara, he is not at all serious and is quite the comedian. Tbh I like theyre generation better than the current (atleast from what ive seen of Hashirama and Madaras personalities)

    Im going to need a lot of Kleenex for when Madara and Hashirama interact.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  15. #134
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Fazzzy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    Who think that Hokages will go to the battlefield ?
    Sorry for grammatical errors,my english is not that good...

  16. #135
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Necron's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 619 Discussion / 620 Predictions

    I just realized something. Even though I never understood how Itachi got his uber Susanno'o weapons and even though I didn't like the fact that he had Izanami up his sleeve, it does make sense now. Itachi was probably the most loving person in the Uchiha clan, he loved his brother and his parents and the whole village aswell. So once he killed his best friend Shusui, was forced to abbandod his Brother, kill his clan and leave the village, so much was taken from him that eyes must have gotten a power overload. The only difference between him and Sasuke (up til now) is that he wasn't consumend by hatred but wanted to end it.

    And by the way, I find it pretty hilarious how people are getting mad at Hashirama for having such a lively and light hearted nature. It was a very welcome surprise to see, that not every charakter in the manga at the moment is serious or emo about the world. This is probably the first guy I see laughing wholeheartedly aside from Naruto for about 200 chapters.
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