Fairy Tail 318 Discussion/ 319 Predictions

[Quenser]

SO,he did defeated many times off panel?-.- im not sure if this is true...

Even if it is true,thats not mean that he reached the ultimate level and that he is capable to beat every enemy that he is facing.Defeats are defeats and he would never stop to taste it...Even Makarov and Gildtartz lost many times at their best!

All we know about Gildartz losing to someone when he was at his strongest is that he lost to Acnologia during one of his travels and managed to barely escape death. As for Makarov, he lost to Hades - his former master, who taughts him , knew all his tricks and had superior knowledge about origins of magic. also, there was this one time when his magical enegry was destabilized by a dirty trick
( during Phantom Lord Arc ), but I don't think that counts as a fight per se.

Natsu admitted losing to Gildartz - he knows he can't beat him and it seems he realized that there are many people stronger than him, but he doesn't stop beause of that. It's just his nature - he's hot-headed and likes to test his strength by engaging in battles with strong opponents. When there's a need to be serious, he is pushing himself to the limit and while doing so, he gets to know more about his own power.

It's hard to define " Ultimate Level" ( as you called it) in FT . Is it the same level of magic power Acnologia , or Dragons in general, have? Can we put people on par with Zeref in the " Ultimate" category? Every time a seemingly undefeatable wizard with insane output of magical power shows up, he gets the " Strongest " label. But it's only a matter of time when someone who can surpass him will appear.

[SerpentTailedAngel]

SO,he did defeated many times off panel?-.- im not sure if this is true...

Natsu loses in the Tower of Heaven arc against the owl dude. He loses so badly he gets eaten, and needs to be rescued by Gray. He and everyone else also get beaten down by Oracion Six at the beginning of their arc, and Lyon manages to trap Natsu in a giant ball of ice during the earlier half of the Galuna arc. He was also only passed on to the next stage of the S-Class test because Gildartz didn't make beating him the criteria for passing. This was all on panel.

And in any case, how close he is to the 'ultimate level' has less to do with whether or not he loses and more to do with how close to story is to ending.

[MonkeyLuffy]

Guys...When i say "you can't get stronger if you dont taste the defeat." i dont mean that defeat is a power up...The defeat makes you realize how weak you are,and how far you are to reach the level you want to reach...And how you reach this level?Not with "magic" power ups,but with training(yeah it sounds very clishe,but it is mentioned so many times,because it is the most logical way to get stronger).

STA,this is not what i mean about defeat...Natsu in these examples lost,but in the end he win with some power ups(some people saying that they are asspull with friendship power,I will not go in the process to say whether i agree and why).He need to do what i said,and what Gildtarz said about fear,and knowing your weaknesses...It seems Natsu forgot it in some minutes,and he fought the one of the strongest magicians in the same day...-.- Overall,what i miss in FT,is the logic in basic features of a shounen manga,like power ups and how they work!

[redhairSH]

Natsu loses in the Tower of Heaven arc against the owl dude. He loses so badly he gets eaten, and needs to be rescued by Gray. He and everyone else also get beaten down by Oracion Six at the beginning of their arc, and Lyon manages to trap Natsu in a giant ball of ice during the earlier half of the Galuna arc. He was also only passed on to the next stage of the S-Class test because Gildartz didn't make beating him the criteria for passing. This was all on panel.

And in any case, how close he is to the 'ultimate level' has less to do with whether or not he loses and more to do with how close to story is to ending.

Natsu lost because he didn't expect to have the owl try and eat him, they didn't get to finish the fight before owl boy decided to swallow him.
Oracion Six surprised the light team, they took out their two most experienced and arguably strongest(both are strong, ichiya is just so wierd its hard to remember) mages before they launched their surprise attack
Natsu got trapped, but never got beaten on Galuna
Gildartz and the others were supposed to only test the candidates, not go all out, he even said that after natsu's exploding flame blade, he would usually have passed at that point, gildartz just wanted to teach natsu a little something extra, plus gildartz was obviously above everyone in the guild, with the possible exception of makaraov, at that point anyways

Natsu has never lost a fight on or off panel, when he has been able to go completely all out, his lightning flame dragon or dragon force or secret dragon techs have always won, erza stated that all out he could surpass her, and makarov stated that all out he could(possibly) take out laxus, which means that before the timeskip he was close to being the number 3 mage in the strongest guild in the kingdom, now that he has gotten stronger and gained lightning dragon slayer magic, he is so much more badass, gildartz is probably still above him, but i'd say that if natsu went all out against him now, he would do much better before gildartz took him down

[exacta]

Natsu's been defeated lots of times that we've never seen. Why do you think he's so scared of Erza? Apparently Laxus beat him a couple of times too. Also, Natsu did admit defeat against Gildarts.

All of this is true, but the problem is, all of those are Fairy Tail mages. It might as well not count since they're on Natsu's side and not supposed to create a conflict for Natsu and Fairy Tail to overcome. What this manga needs is an enemy that is capable of actually defeating Fairy Tail during the first encounter.

Any other example is either a comical fight, or a temporary defeat where Natsu emerges victorious in the same day that the defeat actually happens(Oracion Seis), obviously without any training or development.

[Rarhyx]

What this manga needs is an enemy that is capable of actually defeating Fairy Tail during the first encounter.

Acnologia doesn't count?
If it weren't for Mavis they would be all dead.

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

a bit off-topic but is anyone of you that kwaderno guy from
http://naruto-chrome.blogspot.de/201...319-natsu.html
?

he just & copy paste's posts from this forum (yes even the typos)

[tobirama]

what FT really needs is a worthy long term antagonist whom cant lose to nakama power maybe a guild with similar principles as fairy tail but evil i.e believing in love/friendship etc but wanting to well watever

[Leonsagara]

All of this is true, but the problem is, all of those are Fairy Tail mages. It might as well not count since they're on Natsu's side and not supposed to create a conflict for Natsu and Fairy Tail to overcome. What this manga needs is an enemy that is capable of actually defeating Fairy Tail during the first encounter.

Any other example is either a comical fight, or a temporary defeat where Natsu emerges victorious in the same day that the defeat actually happens(Oracion Seis), obviously without any training or development.

Except Natsu does see Erza as someone he wants to surpass. Witness the training doll that Lucy sees in his house. Natsu doesn't need more determination to get stronger, he's got plenty already.

[MonkeyLuffy]

Acnologia doesn't count?
If it weren't for Mavis they would be all dead.

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

a bit off-topic but is anyone of you that kwaderno guy from
http://naruto-chrome.blogspot.de/201...319-natsu.html
?

he just & copy paste's posts from this forum (yes even the typos)

WTF,i swear to my mother,WTF,i didn't... :@
wtf WTF wtf WTF!!!

Well,i see.I have a fan there!

[Rarhyx]

WTF,i swear to my mother,WTF,i didn't... :@
wtf WTF wtf WTF!!!

Well,i see.I have a fan there!

you aren't the only whos posts were copied. in "his" naruto section it's the same. just copy & paste from mangahelpers

[exacta]

I read them. But you were complaining about the logic of Natsu eating other elements, and then justifying it was okay for Gajeel because Natsu did it.

Okay this really is a waste of time. All I said is Gajeel eating it is easier to stomach. This is because

1) He needs a power up and never does anything, Natsu is the main character but Gajeel is also supposed to be his rival.
2) This scenario is more believable, because God Flames and the Lighting were hyped up to being something that Natsu should NOT be able to eat. There pretty much hasn't even been a single comment about eating shadows.
3) What seems more like bullshit to you? Natsu defeating Hades and Zancrow, or Gajeel beating Rogue, who he ALREADY beat the shit out of?

This was easier to stomach as in easier to read without raging.

My standards are low. I don't need logic to enjoy this manga anymore. The complete lack of it has indeed become standard. I just need to see characters like Gajeel, Laxus and Mirajane do more.