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Thread: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

  1. #196
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member God Eye Galatea's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    But God Eye i have a question i hope you can help......In the chapter where Dae is talking about the 3 revived ones(Chapter 120) he says something along the lines of " they are completely different beings who merely borrowed the Pre death appearance" i was hopeing you could find a RAW or Chinese Scan and tell me what it exactly said(as from what the translation i got i took it as the 3 beings that were brought forth were NOT Cassandra Roxanne Hysteria but new beings that simply looked like them?) - hope u can help
    The translation is correct. I took a look at the other scans, Dae stated that it was really impossible to resurrect someone who is already dead once, those three are merely different kind of thing, that before awakening borrowed their pre-death forms.

    I interpret it as they are indeed Cassandra, Roxanne, and Hysteria, but as they are resurrected they are no longer a Claymore warrior nor an awaken being yet, they are a different kind of being that are bound to awaken no matter what.
    After all, their dead bodies were indeed used in bringing them back. Those three have their own memoires, used their own techniques, and have their personality, so I don't think they are "completely" different beings that only looked like them. They are them but as a different kind of being that is bound to awaken no matter what in time.


    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Roxanne is the only one of the "revived" ones that is inconsistent(we never learned of her death, we were never told why she could remember everything and we were told about her ability to "hide herself" yet we never seen anything of it when she was an awakened..all she did was shoot those blades...and as Yoki synchronization and the ability to hide herself were her original abilitys she should have them as an awakened.....so the fact that we are told she can COMPLETELY hide her yoki(this is unprecedented....even Teresa said she could not hide her yoki to the point were the others would not notice it, and a young Teresa sensed the former n2s yoki even tho she has suppressed it for years) means i think its safe to say that she is hiding so that no one can sense her.
    Remember though, Roxanne's masking yoki presence ability is only limited to 1 person when she was a Claymore. Also, Priscilla's natural ability is complete yoki suppression to the point without any detection.



    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    I have another possible theory in how Roxanne could have lived .........What if she put her "human" parts into one of those Blades she shot out right at the end and was just "remote controlling" her "body" using yoki sync....and she waited for cassandra and the "strange warriors" to leave and then she could just walk into the Org.....and maybe thats why the New generation warriors rush to the holy city...to inform Miria that they had to flea the Org due to the AO still being there.
    It's possible, but there's better be a good reason why Roxanne is not drawn to Priscilla like Cassandra is, Roxanne after all still has Priscilla's yoki inside her.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaidedshard View Post
    roxane was probably my favorite character that yagi created. however possible that roxane being still alive may be. i dont see her as being a part of cassandra. clare recieving roxanes evil blade and beutiful blade sword skills. this would round out clares fighting style. however, i dont see it happening. i was hoping clare would have learned them while roxane was still in human form. but it never did happen. so i dont see that as part of the whole cassandra/priss reality. priss would have consumed both roxane and consandra. reason i say this is. when the destroyer took in priss. priss was fighting back and was half out of the destroyer by the time they got it to the city. point is with that kinda power locked in one body with 3 personas competing for owner ship. priss would win out pretty fast. which is why they could not find cassandras persona. so the roxane theory would not work. but its good food for thought.
    Remember Destroyer doesn't have its own will or sense of self, it only drives on its instinct, as Clare was able to "control" the Destroyer more or less temporarily. Thus, I don't think it would take extraordinary willpower from Priscilla to battle it, and it was a deadlock until Riful-Doll damaged the Destroyer enough for Priscilla to win out that internal battle.
    If Cassandra's will or even Roxanne's will are still lingering within, it's not going to be easy for Priscilla to completely consume them, as strong as Priscilla is, she is not known to possess a strong will (extreme hatred, yes, but a strong will, no, well except the time she did not eat for 7 years, but that is another matter).
    As I stated I do wonder if Cynthia, Yuma, and Tabitha alone are enough to find and bring Cassandra's self back.
    Last edited by God Eye Galatea; March 06, 2013 at 03:04 PM.

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  3. #197
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by God Eye Galatea View Post
    The whole hatred and power thing makes sense to me actually, as I have offered my view already. I believe the hatred for yoma, to more power, have to do with the self-perservation instinct of the yoma part within the warrior themselves. Hatred for the yoma gives the warriors the drive to kill yoma, in turns the yoma part within the warrior senses it and increases power for self-perservation and to try to gain control. Simply put it, the stronger the hatred for yoma, the stronger the drive to kill it, and in turns the stronger the instinct of the yoma part within to increase more power to gain control (awakening is thus the point where the yoma part succeeded in gaining control).
    I think I grasp what you are saying. However, after getting used to them most Claymores don't seem to hate yoma so much as accept their existence as something that needs to be removed. They become part of their reality.

    The same goes for their yoma side. I don't think there is one Claymore who ever embraced her/his yoma side, but neither do they (except probably in some cases) seem to dwell on how much they hate that part inside. They learn to live with it. Develop some coping mechanism.

    Doesn't mean they don't have issues, but they are functional [human] beings nevertheless. I think if all of them walked around with that much hatred we would see some signs. Unless the hatred is more of an unconscious thing?

    I can buy the idea of the yoma inside being driven by self-preservation though, or wanting to assert control. But that being caused sorely by hatred leaves me somewhat unimpressed. As I mentioned, most Claymores manage somehow to learn to live with that side.
    Shiro 2

  4. #198
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Easily the most "alarming" thing that's developed recently was Prisc's actual god-power. Remember only a couple months ago we were dumb enough to actually weigh Clare's new techniques that she gained, in relation to how, maybe, she could Half-Awaken (or w/e) and use those mutations to fight Prisc ? All a pipe dream now. Now, given only what's in front of us, Clare's only option is to literally awaken, or fight Prisc in a "dream state" or otherwise isolated mental realm- that would be a huge cop-out and lame, so I'm still waiting for my girl to awaken and give many fans what they've been waiting for for several years now. We have 2 ridiculous godzillas on the battlefield now; I don't see much of a reason to hold back on a 3rd godzilla.

  5. #199
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions


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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by God Eye Galatea View Post
    The translation is correct. I took a look at the other scans, Dae stated that it was really impossible to resurrect someone who is already dead once, those three are merely different kind of thing, that before awakening borrowed their pre-death forms.

    I interpret it as they are indeed Cassandra, Roxanne, and Hysteria, but as they are resurrected they are no longer a Claymore warrior nor an awaken being yet, they are a different kind of being that are bound to awaken no matter what.
    After all, their dead bodies were indeed used in bringing them back. Those three have their own memoires, used their own techniques, and have their personality, so I don't think they are "completely" different beings that only looked like them. They are them but as a different kind of being that is bound to awaken no matter what in time.




    Remember though, Roxanne's masking yoki presence ability is only limited to 1 person when she was a Claymore. Also, Priscilla's natural ability is complete yoki suppression to the point without any detection.





    It's possible, but there's better be a good reason why Roxanne is not drawn to Priscilla like Cassandra is, Roxanne after all still has Priscilla's yoki inside her.




    Remember Destroyer doesn't have its own will or sense of self, it only drives on its instinct, as Clare was able to "control" the Destroyer more or less temporarily. Thus, I don't think it would take extraordinary willpower from Priscilla to battle it, and it was a deadlock until Riful-Doll damaged the Destroyer enough for Priscilla to win out that internal battle.
    If Cassandra's will or even Roxanne's will are still lingering within, it's not going to be easy for Priscilla to completely consume them, as strong as Priscilla is, she is not known to possess a strong will (extreme hatred, yes, but a strong will, no, well except the time she did not eat for 7 years, but that is another matter).
    As I stated I do wonder if Cynthia, Yuma, and Tabitha alone are enough to find and bring Cassandra's self back.
    and i counter with this to the will-less destroyers will. the destroyer had clares will power at the time of consumption of priss. needless to say if clares will/hate for priss was not enough at the time to contain priss then there is no way cassandra nor roxane could possibly stay in that body with priss in it at the same time. i think you just want roxane back too much. i know i wish she would just spring up again too. but i just dont see it happening.

    ---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fluorideconspiracy View Post
    Easily the most "alarming" thing that's developed recently was Prisc's actual god-power. Remember only a couple months ago we were dumb enough to actually weigh Clare's new techniques that she gained, in relation to how, maybe, she could Half-Awaken (or w/e) and use those mutations to fight Prisc ? All a pipe dream now. Now, given only what's in front of us, Clare's only option is to literally awaken, or fight Prisc in a "dream state" or otherwise isolated mental realm- that would be a huge cop-out and lame, so I'm still waiting for my girl to awaken and give many fans what they've been waiting for for several years now. We have 2 ridiculous godzillas on the battlefield now; I don't see much of a reason to hold back on a 3rd godzilla.
    i think you are missing out on a couple things. plot holes more or less. that can let clare compete. not saying she will win but shes got back up^^ the terresa plot hole is one. the luciena plot hole is another possible one. we dont know either of their personal skills or abilitys. and clare should have a part of both of them with in herself. so yagi can skill up clare in many ways. since clare has raf's skills now. you can only assume she has her sisters skills locked within her as well as terresa's. the quicksword and the wind cutter are now in total fruition. meaning she cant skill up in that form any longer. she also mastered her yoki shrinking skills along with knowing rafs yoki web like skill this gives her a huge yoki/radar to use when fighting. so she should be able to at least dodge most of whats coming to her.

  8. #201
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    One of the biggest flaws of Claymore is Miria's character. She's a retard, makes stupid decisions but somehow, against logic, her plans always work. If Priscilla wanted to she could have gone to Cassandra and no one would be able to stop her (except Clare maybe if she could tap into Teresa's power in time). So the way I see it is that Priscilla knew that she has Cassandra already under her control so she didn't even bother to go there. That at least makes her a little bit less stupid.

    @kaidedshard
    About your 7th plothole, it's possible that Dae had something to do with it. His detour was never revealed, maybe it's a red herring but then maybe it's not and Yagi will go back to that.
    You forgot that the plan that Miria established was before they freed Clare and Priscilla.
    Obviously, they knew that Cassandra was going to free Priscilla anyways based on their knowledge (and is pretty much confirmed now), so the best solution would be to stop Cassandra.
    However, they already saw Priscilla coming out of the cocoon, so when she did, they obviously were smart enough to think this;
    Fight Priscilla= Death
    Priscilla + Cassandra= Good game

    In the order of correct logic, they would then attack Cassandra and stop her from merging instead of running or taking on some opponent that would essentially result in suicide.

    But I do agree it that the plan sort of became stupid when Priscilla was released from her cocoon, yet what else could they do?
    Keep in mind the Seven Ghosts are trying to get the best possible solution out of this, and that is keeping Priscilla from becoming even more powerful.
    Unfortunately, they did not predict that their plan was faulty since the start, since Cassandra was already a segment of Priscilla's mind.

    And do you really think Clare will be able to tap into Teresa's power?
    Why is it that she has not already tapped into such a hidden power previously?
    I can think of multiple situations in which Clare desperately could have used that help, yet did not find it.
    What makes this situation so different, or will make it so unique that she finally obtains this "arbitrary" power?

    Finally, it's agreeable: Miria's an idiot.
    But I still appreciate it, since she technically is so far from what we have seen, has been the deuteragonist.
    Though it's quite arguable that Clare or someone else has shifted the leadership role she once conducted, leaving her behind with Yagi's crappy plot digressions.

  9. #202
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    I don't believe that I'm missing out on anything tbh. It's not that your reasons for potential abilities that Clare can gain, these are logically sound. The point is that to finish this thing out, she will have to awaken- If we're talking theoretical access to these things. Either way it's going to happen.

  10. #203
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    My vote's still going to Clare turning into Teresa when she awakens.

    Nostalgic memories

  11. #204
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by fluorideconspiracy View Post
    I don't believe that I'm missing out on anything tbh. It's not that your reasons for potential abilities that Clare can gain, these are logically sound. The point is that to finish this thing out, she will have to awaken- If we're talking theoretical access to these things. Either way it's going to happen.

    ed: Here's what I'm prepared to offer as a good ending:

    For those who agree that the power level of the strongest beings in the game right now have warranted an appropriate response in lethality, then it make all the sense in the world for several (and I mean any random ghost: Tabitha could freak out and do it- Deneve, Helen, Miata.)

    This kind of craziness for literally last for a year of episodes at least. Part of me welcomes it too.

    (sorry i quoted myself wasn't paying attention)

  12. #205
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    My vote's still going to Clare turning into Teresa when she awakens.

    Nostalgic memories
    it will never happen. clare is pretty much a chimera. if you think about it she is part raf, terresa,luciena,irene, yoma yoma yoma yoma. she cant just say well i want to be terresa today. however she may be able to inflict a psycological blow to priss by her yoma smell. but i think that also ran out the poop shoot with her last battle against her. if anything saves the day. it will be priss remembering she does not want to be a yoma. then letting people kill her. very anti climatic way to end her reality. but that leaves prisc to take up the role of the next big one. yagi has to make one disappear at least.

  13. #206
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by God Eye Galatea View Post
    The translation is correct. I took a look at the other scans, Dae stated that it was really impossible to resurrect someone who is already dead once, those three are merely different kind of thing, that before awakening borrowed their pre-death forms.

    I interpret it as they are indeed Cassandra, Roxanne, and Hysteria, but as they are resurrected they are no longer a Claymore warrior nor an awaken being yet, they are a different kind of being that are bound to awaken no matter what.
    After all, their dead bodies were indeed used in bringing them back. Those three have their own memoires, used their own techniques, and have their personality, so I don't think they are "completely" different beings that only looked like them. They are them but as a different kind of being that is bound to awaken no matter what in time.





    Remember though, Roxanne's masking yoki presence ability is only limited to 1 person when she was a Claymore. Also, Priscilla's natural ability is complete yoki suppression to the point without any detection.





    It's possible, but there's better be a good reason why Roxanne is not drawn to Priscilla like Cassandra is, Roxanne after all still has Priscilla's yoki inside her.




    Remember Destroyer doesn't have its own will or sense of self, it only drives on its instinct, as Clare was able to "control" the Destroyer more or less temporarily. Thus, I don't think it would take extraordinary willpower from Priscilla to battle it, and it was a deadlock until Riful-Doll damaged the Destroyer enough for Priscilla to win out that internal battle.
    If Cassandra's will or even Roxanne's will are still lingering within, it's not going to be easy for Priscilla to completely consume them, as strong as Priscilla is, she is not known to possess a strong will (extreme hatred, yes, but a strong will, no, well except the time she did not eat for 7 years, but that is another matter).
    As I stated I do wonder if Cynthia, Yuma, and Tabitha alone are enough to find and bring Cassandra's self back.
    Thanks that makes much more sense now(i never thought of it like that) so by "different beings" he ment they were not "claymores" anymore they were a new type of being that was destined to awaken.

    Tyvm!!!


    And if upon awakening Roxannes power should have increased so i think its safe to say she could hide it from more then 1 person now(tho theres no proof)
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

  14. #207
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    I just finished reading the english scanlation, and I have to say....I like the chapter a whole lot more now.

    Specifically the bit on hatred - maybe it's because I've also had time to think on it, but my impression of the idea is alot more positive then it used to be, perhaps because this chapter also delves into the Priscilla's battle with Isley and her overflowing power. Naturally, nothing actually changed from the chapter itself then simply being able to read it in english, but as a whole....I enjoyed it more then I did before.

    I still think, more then before actually, that Dae is simply speaking his mind rather than we are required to accept his ideas a la 'yagi mouthpiece'....regardless, unlike other such moments, usually with Dr.Deneve like the jean Wedge theory, I found myself liking this idea more than those others. On an intuitive level, I guess, it made some sense to me, even though are still bound to analyze his words like crazy for the remainder of the month to check for consistency....as well we should.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

  15. #208
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member faintsmile1992's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    With regards to the bit about hatred the part of this post about 'meanness' might be of interest. Clare is mean when she receives no affection yet she entered remission when Raki turned up. Teresa too when Clare enters her life. Although there are plot holes associated with the idea that youki and awakening are a representation of meanness (as described below), its what Yagi is saying.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3323071

  16. #209
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    In case you haven't noticed Gernot has made his translation public. You should thank him since he's the most important person for a scanlation team (without a translator everyone else is useless).

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  18. #210
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    Re: Claymore 136 Discussions /137 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    You forgot that the plan that Miria established was before they freed Clare and Priscilla.
    Obviously, they knew that Cassandra was going to free Priscilla anyways based on their knowledge (and is pretty much confirmed now), so the best solution would be to stop Cassandra.
    However, they already saw Priscilla coming out of the cocoon, so when she did, they obviously were smart enough to think this;
    Fight Priscilla= Death
    Priscilla + Cassandra= Good game

    In the order of correct logic, they would then attack Cassandra and stop her from merging instead of running or taking on some opponent that would essentially result in suicide.

    But I do agree it that the plan sort of became stupid when Priscilla was released from her cocoon, yet what else could they do?
    Keep in mind the Seven Ghosts are trying to get the best possible solution out of this, and that is keeping Priscilla from becoming even more powerful.
    Unfortunately, they did not predict that their plan was faulty since the start, since Cassandra was already a segment of Priscilla's mind.

    And do you really think Clare will be able to tap into Teresa's power?
    Why is it that she has not already tapped into such a hidden power previously?
    I can think of multiple situations in which Clare desperately could have used that help, yet did not find it.
    What makes this situation so different, or will make it so unique that she finally obtains this "arbitrary" power?

    Finally, it's agreeable: Miria's an idiot.
    But I still appreciate it, since she technically is so far from what we have seen, has been the deuteragonist.
    Though it's quite arguable that Clare or someone else has shifted the leadership role she once conducted, leaving her behind with Yagi's crappy plot digressions.
    to be honest i think clare has been tapping into terresas power the entire time. for example, learning to shrink her yoki to the smallest point. that was her first real skill she developed. i believe that was one of the first things terresa learned to do as well. i dont think she as an individual realises it yet though. which is why when she battle raf while inside the destroyer raf made mention that she would find that which she must know. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/claym...7/c092/24.html this leaves a genie in a bottle waiting to be released. i think rafs skills are only a crack in the dam to what her body really knows.

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