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Thread: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    The thread about Sasuke's future power-up got me thinking... of course its evident that Sasuke needs something to oppose Narutos Full Kurama Morph, but apart of that, does he even need a power-up to compete with Naruto?

    Lets say Naruto can do anything he's shown except transforming into that Chakra-Kurama and Rapid-Fire Bijuudama Nukes... are they still that far apart? I'd actually say no.

    Condition Summary:
    • Naruto: No Full Kurama Morph, everything else goes. Including that Rikudou Sennin Cloak Transformation.
    • Sasuke: Current version (EMS, no Curse Seal), no restrictions.

    Fight takes place at Sannin Clash location.
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    lol I've been waiting for this for a long time. I think EMS Sasuke and Naruto limited to KCM v1 are near equals but v2 is just too much, but I will go more in depth later.

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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Naruto should, even without the full-on Kurama transformation, be able to completely destroy Sasuke. Naruto took on an army of Edos even before he attained the Tailed Beast Mode (Sage Cloak), something you've allowed within the scenario. I simply see no chance for Sasuke to compete. Naruto speed surpasses that necessary to avoid Amaterasu, genjutsu is obviously going to be pretty useless. Any other offensive capabilities Sasuke has can either be tanked if Naruto chooses, or jut avoided entirely. Sasuke's greatest defence, Susanoo, is also not going to be impregnable against Naruto's overwhelming attack. By almost every measure, Naruto is clearly superior to Sasuke. This shouldn't even be close. A single Naruto clone would be able to stand toe-to-toe with Sasuke.

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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Naruto can still fire a Bijuudama without going Full Kyuubi, so I'd say for this alone he gets the win.
    Without it, its actually much, much closer, expecially since Naruto's shunshin isn't exploited as much. Also he needs to be careful for the time-limit, so imo he would just use Chakra Mode until its time to get down to business.

    EMS Sasuke is basically MS Sasuke without the blindness and the Amaterasu jewel, I'll wait for him to show in a serious fight by himself to really judge if he can compete with Naruto.
    As it stands, imo, Naruto is superior at the moment

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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Hell even so Naruto should have no problem taking this. Insane speed and insane offensive power.

  6. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Well, what can Naruto do against full-armored Susanoo coated in Amaterasu? He's basically restricted to throwing Rasen-Shurikens at it, which Sasuke can potentially fend off with his own Enton Projectiles from the Amaterasu Jewel.

    Sure... Naruto has the close-range Mini-Bijuudama, but to me it doesn't appear drastically more powerful then Rasengan, considering Madara redirected the blast back at Naruto and the latter didn't receive much damage.

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c601/18.html

    Speed? Madara and Obito keep up with Naruto just fine, so why shouldn't Sasuke be capable of the same?

    To me it looks like as long as they are in humanoid form their power-levels aren't that far apart.
    Last edited by LnDRash; February 07, 2013 at 07:28 AM.
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    @LnDRash

    Quote Quote:
    Well, what can Naruto do against full-armored Susanoo coated in Amaterasu? He's basically restricted to throwing Rasen-Shurikens at it, which Sasuke can potentially fend off with his own Enton Projectiles from the Amaterasu Jewel.
    FRS or any SM rasengan(those are big enough so Naruto does not get direct exposure). Hitting him from multiple angles (clones...). Imagine Susano eating 4 FRS from 4 angles at the same time... Sasuke is dust mode at this point. Also Sasuke can't counter as Naruto is faster then Sasuke can move a finger.

    Those little projectiles have 0 feats that would show they can block a FRS... Even Kurama was going Oo at "what is this power"...

    Then of course Naruto can charge in close and FRS from close proximity. Nothing Sasuke can do to counter aside from hoping Susano can take it.

    Then Naruto can summon Ma/Pa and keep them at distance to get ready the frog son (1 shooting Sasuke).

    He can also extend his arms to hit Susano and then stop said chakra (deatach the effected area).

    Naruto can run around in circles to the point Sasuke drops from chakra exhaustion as he has 2 chaoices:

    1-Keep it up and go OOM (out of mana).
    2-Put it down and die.


    Quote Quote:
    Sure... Naruto has the close-range Mini-Bijuudama, but to me it doesn't appear drastically more powerful then Rasengan, considering Madara redirected the blast back at Naruto and the latter didn't receive much damage.

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c601/18.html
    That was a clone in chakra mode lvl 2 and it whent "poof". Aka it died. Hard to judge but going from the explosion... Its HUGE.


    Quote Quote:
    Speed? Madara and Obito keep up with Naruto just fine, so why shouldn't Sasuke be capable of the same?
    Depends what you feel like using... Plot holes? Then perhaps Madara is THAT fast but it makes no sense... Obito was abusing his intangibility... The moment he could not use that he ate a full face of Rasengan.

    Naruto in CM (chakra mode) lvl 1 was faster then FULL SPEED RAIKAGE and that made SASUKE into a STATUE. Like COMPLETLY. Now CM lvl 2 the one redirecting bijudama's with speed alone and Kakashi not even knowing what happened (even if he has sharingan on)... Yeah Sasuke can't keep up... LIKE AT ALL as long as Naruto keeps using his full speed.

    Quote Quote:
    To me it looks like as long as they are in humanoid form their power-levels aren't that far apart.
    Not even if Naruto has 12 other clones on diferent battlefields and Sasuke is fighting just one of those clones... Naruto going with some 20 RM (chakra mode) clones + SM clones is going to own Sasuke completly... Sasuke is in great need of a power boost and i am sure he is going to get something.

    This is like 20 curent Kages (actualy ABOVE curent Kages) vs Sasuke alone... He get's murdered.
    Last edited by xXan; February 07, 2013 at 07:45 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Those little projectiles have 0 feats that would show they can block a FRS...
    FRS is Futon and Amaterasu is said to be the strongest Katon. Wind is weak against fire, so I'd say a direct feat isn't necessary to make the claim that those projectiles should be able to at very least detonate a Rasenshuriken prematurely.

    Quote Quote:
    That was a clone in chakra mode lvl 2 and it whent "poof". Aka it died. Hard to judge but going from the explosion... Its HUGE.
    The clone got repelled like it was hit by Shinra Tensei and it took some time before it *poofed*. If that blast was really that destructive the clone should have been obliterated immediately.

    Quote Quote:
    Depends what you feel like using... Plot holes?
    Actually, yes, you could say that.

    In this case I'm more interested to hear how people think this fight would go down in the actual manga then in a bloodlusted arena scenario. I'm mainly just pondering if Sasuke needs anything else then Perfect-Susanoo (to keep up with Kurama-Mode) to be a worthy match for current Naruto.

    Quote Quote:
    Then Naruto can summon Ma/Pa and keep them at distance to get ready the frog son (1 shooting Sasuke).
    Problem is why isn't he calling them to one-shot Madara and Obito? The frogs are very weak and vulnerable on their own, so as long as Naruto doesn't show the ability to fuse the frogs to his shoulders, they would become more or less victims to environmental damage.
    Last edited by LnDRash; February 07, 2013 at 08:16 AM.

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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    @LnDRash

    Quote Quote:
    FRS is Futon and Amaterasu is said to be the strongest Katon. Wind is weak against fire, so I'd say a direct feat isn't necessary to make the claim that those projectiles should be able to at very least detonate a Rasenshuriken prematurely.
    The strongest katon that can't burn trough karin's back and a samurai armour... Yeah not focused and its that good. Now Naruto with his FRS is not trowing some wind at Sasuke... He is pushing on a HUGE mass of chakra drilling into Sasuke (like Kurama his mind). Take note its already expanded one...

    Quote Quote:
    The clone got repelled like it was hit by Shinra Tensei and it took some time before it *poofed*. If that blast was really that destructive the clone should have been obliterated immediately.
    Chakra shield... + look here:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/611/5

    Got hit by Juubi itself and he did not instantly go POOF.

    Quote Quote:
    Actually, yes, you could say that.

    In this case I'm more interested to hear how people think this fight would go down in the actual manga then in a bloodlusted arena scenario. I'm mainly just pondering if Sasuke needs anything else then Perfect-Susanoo (to keep up with Kurama-Mode) to be a worthy match for current Naruto.
    Oh in that case you should have used a diferent area of the forum... Well in this case Naruto is not going to do anything that is going to kill Sasuke, spend 90% of the time talking to Sasuke as Sasuke is trowing punches, Amaterasu and other attacks at his face...

  10. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Well, what can Naruto do against full-armored Susanoo coated in Amaterasu? He's basically restricted to throwing Rasen-Shurikens at it, which Sasuke can potentially fend off with his own Enton Projectiles from the Amaterasu Jewel.

    Sure... Naruto has the close-range Mini-Bijuudama, but to me it doesn't appear drastically more powerful then Rasengan, considering Madara redirected the blast back at Naruto and the latter didn't receive much damage.

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c601/18.html

    Speed? Madara and Obito keep up with Naruto just fine, so why shouldn't Sasuke be capable of the same?

    To me it looks like as long as they are in humanoid form their power-levels aren't that far apart.
    He can still use the real/full Biju dama and that is way more than enough to destroy it.

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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    In this case I'm more interested to hear how people think this fight would go down in the actual manga then in a bloodlusted arena scenario. I'm mainly just pondering if Sasuke needs anything else then Perfect-Susanoo (to keep up with Kurama-Mode) to be a worthy match for current Naruto.
    He needs absolutely Obito and Madara reaction speed.
    Susano'o is just a depowered Bijuu cloak, but considering his Amaterasu weapon he should be able to draw with Chakra Mode Naruto well enough, and with full Susano'o he can match Bijuu Mode until he fires a Bijuudama or goes full Bijuu.

    The problem with Sasuke is that he has a set limit of chakra, while Naruto, unless he goes in Bijuu mode, has ( almost ) infinite chakra and stamina.
    Sasuke can't overpower him, tricking him is likely useless considering Naruto can sense, he can't outsped him and outlast him always was out of the question.

    Imo he needs a way to suppress Bijuu chakra to win, kinda like Hashirama's Wood Dragon

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    I'm gonna give Naruto an EXTREMELY generous... 7 wins out of 10, by way of simply superior power. It sure as hell ain't because of speed, because everytime we see Naruto he's busy NOT speedblitzing Sharingan wielders. Obito has shown no superior perceptive power over Sasuke and the only perceptive powers Madara have shown above Sasuke's is seeing through clones (which has nothing to do with the opponent's speed).

    See, Sasuke isn't fast enough to keep up with Naruto when he uses Shunshin (which is fine, because no ninja can maintain shunshin speed indefinately), but his Enton can.

    And no, I don't mean Amaterasu. I mean the Enton that outran Raikage's max speed shunshin. Not only did Sasuke not use eyesight to guide the Enton, but it came from the Amaterasu he already fired, meaning even when he fires Amaterasu, misses the opponent, and is set up to be countered... he can still set you aflame with a projectile faster than Raikage can move.

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/12 Amaterasu fired...
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/13 Misses...
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/14 Enton from the Amaterasu sprouts before shunshin V2 Raikage can strike his blindspot.

    "But wait!" says random so-and-so. "Naruto's faster than Raikage, who dodged Amaterasu! Surely he can dodge his Enton aswell!"

    Well, here's the thing: Sasuke just proved he can set anything around him aflame, as fast as Raikage can move, in MID ATTACK, without fucking looking in the direction of whatever he wants to burn (I don't know why the hell I haven't been resorting to this in these arena threads). The hell else do I have to prove? Naruto can dodge one Amaterasu. He can't dodge multiple surprise-attack Enton sprouted anywhere Sasuke wants them to go, without ANY sign that they're going to appear.
    Last edited by ninjabot; February 07, 2013 at 09:21 PM.

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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    See, Sasuke isn't fast enough to keep up with Naruto when he uses Shunshin (which is fine, because no ninja can maintain shunshin speed indefinately), but his Enton can.

    And no, I don't mean Amaterasu. I mean the Enton that outran Raikage's max speed shunshin. Not only did Sasuke not use eyesight to guide the Enton, but it came from the Amaterasu he already fired, meaning even when he fires Amaterasu, misses the opponent, and is set up to be countered... he can still set you aflame with a projectile faster than Raikage can move.

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/12 Amaterasu fired...
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/13 Misses...
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/463/14 Enton from the Amaterasu sprouts before shunshin V2 Raikage can strike his blindspot.

    "But wait!" says random so-and-so. "Naruto's faster than Raikage, who dodged Amaterasu! Surely he can dodge his Enton aswell!"

    Well, here's the thing: Sasuke just proved he can set anything around him aflame, as fast as Raikage can move, in MID ATTACK, without fucking looking in the direction of whatever he wants to burn (I don't know why the hell I haven't been resorting to this in these arena threads). The hell else do I have to prove? Naruto can dodge one Amaterasu. He can't dodge multiple surprise-attack Enton sprouted anywhere Sasuke wants them to go, without ANY sign that they're going to appear.
    Probably because it doesn't make any sense. At all. I remember a few months ago you were arguing with somebody about the same thing. I think your conclusion was that either enton moves faster than raikage or Sasuke can make enton appear anywhere without looking. I didn't chime in then because i was only skimming through the discussion but i call BS. I think is was Uchiha_Blood that made the argument but i think he said something like....you know what i have no idea lol. I will just let him or somebody else debate it and i will drop in. I personally believe that Sasuke can manifest it on his person without having an existing amaterasu flame present as oppose to your idea.

    What i will argue about is the speed though. I once said that Sasuke would get blitzed by Naruto. You said no, and then proceeded to give me several examples of what a blitz is, Hiei was one of them. So i conceded. Now it's time for you to do the same thing. Raikage moved so fast that Sasuke's BODY could not react. Sure his eyes followed(though its debatable because he might have reacted to the sound but thats another argument), but if it wasn't for Susanoo he would have be done for. Susuanoo is instant, so basically the moment Sasuke thinks "oh shit, where did Naruto go?" or "Damn he is fast. Im not gonna make it." he can activate it and protect himself. WITHOUT Susanoo sasuke would have got his head ripped off by raikage. He might have BARELY(and im being generous) been able to dodge one of his punches but thats about it. Naruto in KCMv1 is faster than raikage and KCMv2 is even faster than that.

    Its the same thing with Obito. Obito can TRACT Naruto with his Sharingan but he can not physically react to him. If it wasn't for his instant intangibility he would have gotten his faced punched in....kinda like what happened when Naruto's clone rasengan'd him in the face. Tobi is NOT able to physically compete with raikage or naruto speed.

    The only reason Madara blocked Naruto with his fan was because Naruto had jumped in the air(meaning he could no longer propel himself forward) and was yelling something stupid at the top of his lungs. He was also moving in a straight line and was relatively tired in "naruto" standards. That was far from Naruto's full speed and even if it was then its ok. BECAUSE ITS MADARA!!! You can NOT compare Madara's feats with Sasuke just because they both have EMS or because Sasuke has been compared to him every now and then. Madara showed that he could react to raikage's speed several times, one of them was when he physically blocked a kick of his IIRC without the help of Susanoo. Madara has more experience than Sasuke and he himself is faster than Sasuke. Also now we know that the more "emotional" a Sharingan user gets the more powerful their eyes. He is decades older than Sasuke and his eyes were given time to keep getting stronger and stronger still. You yourself said that Sasuke's predictive abilities improved over the time skip. You said Sasuke's performances against Naruto in part 1 and Killer bee in part 2 were proof of that. So why can't the same be said for EMS? Just because he has it now doesn't mean he is on Madara's level. He needs to train with it more or get angrier to pull out more of its power.

    Without Susanoo Sasuke would get his head ripped of by Naruto and that is a fact. Until Sasuke gets his power up from either getting angrier than Madara or from finally using "love" he doesn't have the same perception skills as Madara. Susanoo is his only defense and thats not even enough anymore considering Bijuu dama's, FRS barrages, and wave after wave of Sage mode giant rasengans.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaStar
    Probably because it doesn't make any sense. At all.
    You... don't now how Enton works. Right?

    Quote Quote:
    I remember a few months ago you were arguing with somebody about the same thing. I think your conclusion was that either enton moves faster than raikage or Sasuke can make enton appear anywhere without looking. I didn't chime in then because i was only skimming through the discussion but i call BS. I think is was Uchiha_Blood that made the argument but i think he said something like....you know what i have no idea lol. I will just let him or somebody else debate it and i will drop in. I personally believe that Sasuke can manifest it on his person without having an existing amaterasu flame present as oppose to your idea.

    Oh, I remember the argument explicitly. He claimed (which is far more BS than what I claimed) that the Enton isn't from Amaterasu... that it came from the Susanoo. That his Amaterasu IT SELF comes from Susanoo, and that all he did was sprout the flames out of his Susanoo.

    This is false. Enton is control of Amaterasu's flames. There was literaly only one Amaterasu on the battlefield (the one that missed Raikage and hit the samurai). This means that the ONLY WAY Enton could be manifested is by siphoning flames from the burning samurai. It's legit. Perfect logic, because it follows every law of Enton that's been explained: controlling the black flames of Amaterasu.

    I dare you, him, anyone here, to prove otherwise.

    /guantletthrown

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Sasuke vs. Naruto (No Kurama Transformation)

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    You... don't now how Enton works. Right?
    Neither of us knows how it fully works. What your saying is just guess work. That fight happened years ago in the manga and you just made that arguement up a few months ago in defense of Sasuke getting blitzed by Naruto or Raikage. Its not like it was specifically said in the manga or anything. Amaterasu is said to ignite anything that the user looks at and Enton is just control of those flames. We don't know if he does it will his eyes or with his mind. I don't believe he was looking at anything. We don't know if it travels in a straight line or if it can move like gaara's sand. We don't know if it has to travel or if it just "appears". I can't pull a scan or anything to disprove your theory. All i can say is that i don't think thats how kishi meant for it to be taken and hopefully it will be fully explained later on.



    Quote Quote:
    Oh, I remember the argument explicitly. He claimed (which is far more BS than what I claimed) that the Enton isn't from Amaterasu... that it came from the Susanoo. That his Amaterasu IT SELF comes from Susanoo, and that all he did was sprout the flames out of his Susanoo.

    This is false. Enton is control of Amaterasu's flames. There was literaly only one Amaterasu on the battlefield (the one that missed Raikage and hit the samurai). This means that the ONLY WAY Enton could be manifested is by siphoning flames from the burning samurai. It's legit. Perfect logic, because it follows every law of Enton that's been explained: controlling the black flames of Amaterasu.

    I dare you, him, anyone here, to prove otherwise.

    /guantletthrown
    *notices you didn't reply to anything concerning the speed argument*
    Last edited by NinjaStar; February 07, 2013 at 11:13 PM.

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