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Thread: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

  1. #811
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    He,like the zetsus,should know where his seals are. Tobi knew and teleported himself where people were,does this make Obito a sensor too? To be a sensor you have to do something bigger than just knowing where your seals are.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bloomerwedgies's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Thanks, Viz:

    Spoiler: phrasing show



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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thabor View Post
    People keep saying he forgot, but I doubt if that is actually the case. We've only got two examples of EMS, and there is nothing to say they can't still be in their normal MS mode. And in fact given the recent explanation of how Sharingan works it makes sense for Kishi to use the full range. Since it is supposed to be a sideeffect of the chakra generated by negative feelings then it can act as a mood gauge for Sasuke. The bigger shifts mean stronger negative feelings. So flashes of MS show he is getting pissed, and a full EMS shouldn't show up unless Sasuke really commits to the path of hatred. In fact if Sasuke enitrely lost his hatred he should lose his Sharingan.

    I think that Hashirama will end up pushing Sasuke further over the edge. It would just be too anticlimactic for someone other than Naruto to redeem him.
    problem is that EMS is physiological change and it already happened you can't unhappened it ... the vein popped it's done ... you can't unppoed it - especially if we know how it works
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  5. #814
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    He,like the zetsus,should know where his seals are. Tobi knew and teleported himself where people were,does this make Obito a sensor too? To be a sensor you have to do something bigger than just knowing where your seals are.
    I'm not taking that out from you. I agree Tobi is a great example and i also agree it doesn't mean you are an impressive sensor type. But my point is you can't be an ordinary dude to perform these tricks, they should have a special something.
    Mangekyou sharingan tobi is a spiral of errors that keeps growing indefinitely.

  6. #815
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Thabor's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    problem is that EMS is physiological change and it already happened you can't unhappened it ... the vein popped it's done ... you can't unppoed it - especially if we know how it works
    If that were true they wouldn't be able to revert to normal eyes or a regular sharingan either, which we know for a fact they can.
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

  7. #816
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    problem is that EMS is physiological change and it already happened you can't unhappened it ... the vein popped it's done ... you can't unppoed it - especially if we know how it works
    The problem actually is that the eyes Sasuke has are Itachi's, not his own, as such if he would be able to regress from EMS to MS ( which wouldn't make any sense ) it would have Itachi's shape, not Sasuke's

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  9. #817
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    I mean with the tremendous chakra poll that tobi/madara and naruto and kurama are letting out, anyone that has ninja skills could senses all that chakra while minato being a sensor type isn't crazy or imposible, actually that makes more senses since his space time jutsu is amazing and minato vanished just 0.0001 before he get hit either awepon or a human.
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  10. #818
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Didn't they use the Bijuu power, though? And Tobi sucked the Yonbi back into the Mazou after the rod was removed. It looked as if he got the Bijuu out, into those Edo Tensei bodies.
    They did, but chakra rod wouldn't prevent that. Haven't you noticed how every time Naruto removed the chakra rod, the Tensei went back to normal and became unconscious? I definitely think that has somethin to do with it - they weren't really jinchuuriki or really had their body changed other than getting chakra rod inserted and getting Tobi's chakra through them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    For all we know that finger jutsu used vibrations to sense people ( kinda unbelievable since he sensed unmoving clones, but whatevs ), this is even more of a hint, since non-sensors and even sensors sensed only Naruto.
    As Uriel said it could probably be wrong, I guess we'll see
    Wut? Makes no sense. Minato is definitely a sensor, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to use his fingers to sense somehow.

    I'm throwing Minato a bone here. Take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    well,minato surely isn't a sensor. otherwise he wouldn't need that finger. About the unmoving clones,I think he just needed to sense a vibration due to their hearts and to their breathes. In the first step of the chunin exam, Dosu did the same,more or less. Hence Minato isn't a sensor,dunno for what concerns Tobirama,though.
    Needing that finger doesn't mean he's not a sensor. Each sensor could have a different way to sense.

    I don't remember Dosu sensing anyone though....

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    Ah that makes sense if its true. But remember when he pulled the bijuu out of the jins the souls of the jins went with it. So that makes me think he really did put the bijuu in the jin ETs. Also the chakra rods from what I understood were for control not really chakra transmittance. It gave Tobi a means to control the bijuu. And I am 100% certain its been stated multiple times that you need live bodies for ET.
    It did? I don't remember that, I just remember the Tensei not doing anything after the rods were pulled.

    But the control happens through chakra transmittance. Tobi was using his own chakra to control the Tensei and the bijuu.

    Not sure where that's been stated. Oh, for Edo Tensei? Yeah, you do need a live body for Edo Tensei.

  11. #819
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity llamapie's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    My personal opinion is all ninjas can sense chakra to an extent...its just that the sensor ninjas are specialized and more adept in that.

    ---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 PM ----------



    Interesting point there. My hypothesis is one can't modify his ET body significantly. Its probably too brittle for that. So the jinchurikis could host bizus in their ET bodies cause their body already had that capacity when they were alive...on the other hand madara's body did not. so he needs to use rinne tensei. Basically what you said in the boldened part, i agree to that.
    Still leaves the question of how he could use dead bodies, when its been stated you need live ones for ET. (Unless this changed). And that would have to thwart the presumption that since the body is already "posessed" you can't put a bijuu in it. Same reason Naruto couldn't fuse with the frogs I imagine.

    ---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It did? I don't remember that, I just remember the Tensei not doing anything after the rods were pulled.

    But the control happens through chakra transmittance. Tobi was using his own chakra to control the Tensei and the bijuu.

    Not sure where that's been stated. Oh, for Edo Tensei? Yeah, you do need a live body for Edo Tensei.
    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoni..._Reincarnation

    Now assuming that is accurate take note of the part where it states you need a living body. And I remember in the Haruzen vs. Oro fight that the 3rd mentioned he had to use living sacrifices. "You would sacrifice your own underlings!?" Something like that.

    Now the only thing I can think of is that Tobi also used the Pain technique (which utilizes dead bodies) and he somehow got them to work with ET. Possibly after reanimating the bodies with the technique then using them for ET to put their souls back and make them compatible once again with the bijuu. That is the only explanation I can think of here, whether it is explained ever is up to Kishi. Otherwise as it stands what we have confirmed for how the ET works makes it a plot hole.
    Last edited by llamapie; February 18, 2013 at 06:39 PM.
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  12. #820
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Hrathgrath's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    I'm fairly sure this has already been mentioned but I don't want to fish for it. Did anyone else notice that Sasuke's eyes in the last chapter were not his mixed eyes but his own MS? And on that note, someone has mentioned that if that were the case that it should be Itachi's MS, not his. Which I disagree based on what Tobirama said about it being a special type of chakra that the brain produces, which says to me, why does it matter at all that he has itachi's eyes unless they have been "marinated" in Itachi's MS chakra and thus are now... "special"?
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  13. #821
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    I'm not so sure...

    Tobirama claims that the Sharingan is obtained when their eyes mirror the despair in the Uchiha's heart. My guess is that because they take the eyes of their siblings their despair is increased tenfold and, since it's their siblings' eyes that cause that despair, it's mirrored in their own eyes as testament. But as they go on and their hearts change, potentially the brother's eyes wouldn't appear unless the user is still vailed in hatred.

    Or... Itachi's eyes were faulty because of his illness and Sasuke's got a busted pair, lmao.

  14. #822
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I'm not so sure...

    Tobirama claims that the Sharingan is obtained when their eyes mirror the despair in the Uchiha's heart. My guess is that because they take the eyes of their siblings their despair is increased tenfold and, since it's their siblings' eyes that cause that despair, it's mirrored in their own eyes as testament. But as they go on and their hearts change, potentially the brother's eyes wouldn't appear unless the user is still vailed in hatred.

    Or... Itachi's eyes were faulty because of his illness and Sasuke's got a busted pair, lmao.
    No, Tobirama states: "When an Uchiha individual writhes in agony over the loss of a great love or disappointment in himself... a unique chakra gets released inside his or her brain and reacts with the optic nerves, and changes appear in that person's eyes. This is the phenomenon called the Sharingan... the eyes that reflect the heart." (Official translation from English WSJ)

    Basically, the evolution of the sharingan is driven by emotional pain. The three tomoe develop first, one after another. After experiencing profound loss, such as the death of a close friend, sibling, or rival, the sharingan evolves into a mangekyou sharingan, unlocking greater abilities.

    However, the mangekyou sharingan has a flaw, which is that using its techniques causes the eyes to rapidly deteriorate, and the user will eventually go blind.

    The purpose of killing ones brother and stealing their sharingan is simply to prevent that deterioration, creating an "eternal" mangekyou sharingan.

    One might guess that the reason they cease deterioration after being implanted in another Uchiha has to do with the unique chakra their brain feeds into the optic nerves to produce changes in the eye. It's unlikely to ever be fully explained, though.
    Last edited by Suzaku; February 18, 2013 at 08:15 PM.

  15. #823
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoni..._Reincarnation

    Now assuming that is accurate take note of the part where it states you need a living body. And I remember in the Haruzen vs. Oro fight that the 3rd mentioned he had to use living sacrifices. "You would sacrifice your own underlings!?" Something like that.

    Now the only thing I can think of is that Tobi also used the Pain technique (which utilizes dead bodies) and he somehow got them to work with ET. Possibly after reanimating the bodies with the technique then using them for ET to put their souls back and make them compatible once again with the bijuu. That is the only explanation I can think of here, whether it is explained ever is up to Kishi. Otherwise as it stands what we have confirmed for how the ET works makes it a plot hole.
    As we saw with Kabuto and Tobi, live sacrifices are required for Edo Tensei.

    I think he did used the pain technique, which hasn't been said to require dead bodies, to control the Edo Tensei jinchuuriki and supply them with the power of bijuu. I'm not sure if anything else was required - maybe Tobi could have made any Edo Tensei a jinchuuriki but used the last ones before the bijuu were put into Gedo Mazo because of how compatible in power they were.

    But yeah, it is kind of weird. The rods should have been pushed away or something, or Tobi's chakra should have been dispelled or negated.

  16. #824
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Thabor's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    The problem actually is that the eyes Sasuke has are Itachi's, not his own, as such if he would be able to regress from EMS to MS ( which wouldn't make any sense ) it would have Itachi's shape, not Sasuke's
    Until we're shown Sasuke's eyes in a jar somewhere we don't know if it is even a normal transplant. Its been implied in many ways that the brothers eyes are complementary, and they they could have been merged somehow. And its perfectly clear from both Sasuke's and Madara that their own pattern is still there since it is an integral piece of their EMS pattern. If Madara can revert from Rinngegan back to Sharingan why is it so difficult to believe they can still use the intermediate MS stage?
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

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  18. #825
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted toussaintac's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    As we saw with Kabuto and Tobi, live sacrifices are required for Edo Tensei.

    I think he did used the pain technique, which hasn't been said to require dead bodies, to control the Edo Tensei jinchuuriki and supply them with the power of bijuu. I'm not sure if anything else was required - maybe Tobi could have made any Edo Tensei a jinchuuriki but used the last ones before the bijuu were put into Gedo Mazo because of how compatible in power they were.

    But yeah, it is kind of weird. The rods should have been pushed away or something, or Tobi's chakra should have been dispelled or negated.
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