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Thread: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner 31TeV's Avatar
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    How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    After the Whitebeard Pirates and their allies took out the Marine ships that were spying on them, the World Government got in a panic because they had no idea when the pirates would arrive at Marineford. They weren't even sure that Impel Down was safe while Ace was there.

    But how could the Marines not know when Whitebeard and co. were going to arrive? I'm assuming they went under the Red Line, right past / through Fishman Island. And there were 40+ ships. I know Fishman Island was Whitebeard's territory, and that most fishmen hated the World Government, but how hard would it be to either have one undercover agent or one resident of the island report to the government when Whitebeard went through Fishman Island?

    These are the only explanations I can think of:
    1. WG didn't/couldn't have an agent on FI for whatever reason.
    2. WG agent on FI got taken out by WB and co. before being able to report to WG.
    3. WG agent betrayed WG and didn't report to WG.
    4. WB and co. used some other secret passage to get from the New World to Paradise.
    5. WB and co. went through the Calm Belt to get from the New World to Paradise.
    6. WB and co. went beyond Raftel, to the end of the Grand Line / New World to get to Paradise.
    7. WB and co. walked across the Red Line carrying 40+ ships without anyone noticing to get to Paradise.
    8. WB and co. got Absalom to turn all their ships invisible.
    9. WB and co. got Shiki to fly all their ships over the Red Line.
    10. Oda fucked up.

    I don't know about you, but I think pretty much all of them except 10, and at a push 4 and 5, sound very unlikely. Does anybody else have another plausible explanation?

    I apologise if this has already been discussed but I couldn't find a thread on this after a quick search.

    EDIT:
    11. No one on FI noticed 40+ ships sail past.
    Last edited by 31TeV; February 06, 2013 at 04:24 AM. Reason: added explanation 11

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    It was mentioned in the manga: The Whitebeard Pirates destroyed all Marine scouts in the New World. Sengoku was more or less panicked as he just learned about either Hancock giving into protecting Marineford. (ch. 523) That was less than a week before the battle started iirc.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    1. WG didn't/couldn't have an agent on FI for whatever reason.
    There were not WG agents on the Fishman Island - as explained later on FMI and the WG are in a state of uneasy peace without the Marines having a local base there.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    2. WG agent on FI got taken out by WB and co. before being able to report to WG.
    The only WG/Marine agent in the WB Pirates we know of was Chameleone - but he's not canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    3. WG agent betrayed WG and didn't report to WG.
    There were no WG agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    4. WB and co. used some other secret passage to get from the New World to Paradise.
    They travelled through their territory: The Fishman Island!

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    5. WB and co. went through the Calm Belt to get from the New World to Paradise.
    That's not necessary as they would have to travel around the whole world from the New World to the West or South Blue, then over the Reverse Mountain and WHOLE Paradise.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    6. WB and co. went beyond Raftel, to the end of the Grand Line / New World to get to Paradise.
    Same problem: There's the Red Line between BOTH sides of Paradise and New World.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    7. WB and co. walked across the Red Line carrying 40+ ships without anyone noticing to get to Paradise.
    Seriously? Even Pappag said the Strawhats would then have to leave the Thousand Sunny back in Paradise if they did that...

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    8. WB and co. got Absalom to turn all their ships invisible.
    Absalom has nothing to do with the Whitebeard Pirates.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    9. WB and co. got Shiki to fly all their ships over the Red Line.
    Even if we consider that Strong World would be canon: Shiki's appearance is MUCH too early.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    10. Oda fucked up.
    No he didn't. It's you who didn't read carefully enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    11. No one on FI noticed 40+ ships sail past.
    As a matter of fact, Shyarly predicted Whitebeard's death at the moment their ships were on FMI. Also mentioned in the manga.
    Last edited by hoeru; February 06, 2013 at 03:29 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member UnknownMugiwara's Avatar
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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    If the battle agianst Shiki is canon, wouldn't it have been after Thriller Bark and before the seperation at SA? :-)

    Either way Hoeru pretty much explained it all pretty well
    Brook wanted: DEAD OR ALIVE!
    Yohohohohohohoho! Marine Joke!

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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    The marines had his execution date and time planned out. They had it announced in a newspaper.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    Chances are that the Marine thought that Whitebeard pirates would have arrived well before the execution, like in Impel Down or as soon as Ace was taken to the execution stand. They probably didn't expect Whitebeard to arrive later as he and the crew did.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner 31TeV's Avatar
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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    I wasn't very serious about 7, 8 and 9 at all. They are ridiculous, but I just thought I'd throw those in there for fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    It was mentioned in the manga: The Whitebeard Pirates destroyed all Marine scouts in the New World. Sengoku was more or less panicked as he just learned about either Hancock giving into protecting Marineford. (ch. 523) That was less than a week before the battle started iirc.


    There were not WG agents on the Fishman Island - as explained later on FMI and the WG are in a state of uneasy peace without the Marines having a local base there.

    Yeah, I get that the WG and FI were uneasy with each other, but I still find it hard to believe that the WG couldn't sneak one person onto FI who could report to the WG when WB and co. arrived. Or that out of all the thousands of residents of FI, not one person reported to the WG. I know fishmen usually hate humans and especially the WG, but it's not as simple as every single one of them being that way.

    Thanks for the replies, guys.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    Of course, the Marines anticipated that Whitebeard would come and when... That's why they prepared for battle and came up with a strategy to bring Whitebeard down. They said when Ace should be executed, and where. They wanted to make it public, and Whitebeard was known for going after the ones who go for his family (Chapter 233, BUGGY says so!).

    They didn't need any intel to know that Whitebeard would come and when he was to arrive as the Marines created the time frame for the Pirates to act. The only thing they didn't predict was the submerged Moby Dick ships...

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    Yeah, I get that the WG and FI were uneasy with each other, but I still find it hard to believe that the WG couldn't sneak one person onto FI who could report to the WG when WB and co. arrived. Or that out of all the thousands of residents of FI, not one person reported to the WG. I know fishmen usually hate humans and especially the WG, but it's not as simple as every single one of them being that way.
    Jinbe was the only fishman being affiliated with the World Government, and he was a pirate "serving" as shichibukai, while being affiliated with Whitebeard, too. All the other merfolk weren't willing to help the humans who had been RACISTS towards the merfolk for centuries. Please read what Robin told Nami about the past back on Sabaody Archipelago just around when Camy was kidnapped.

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    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    Quote Originally Posted by 31TeV View Post
    Yeah, I get that the WG and FI were uneasy with each other, but I still find it hard to believe that the WG couldn't sneak one person onto FI who could report to the WG when WB and co. arrived. Or that out of all the thousands of residents of FI, not one person reported to the WG. I know fishmen usually hate humans and especially the WG, but it's not as simple as every single one of them being that way.

    Thanks for the replies, guys.
    How would the residents of FI know the exact time and date Whitebeard planned on invading. An invading army would never share information that critical with citizens. Even the rank and file troops wouldn't be told until it was almost time to march.

    The ability to decide the time and place of battle is critical to an invading army. The defender has the advantage of fighting on familiar terrain, with shorter supply lines. Even if they are aware invasion is coming, it is essential the exact time and date is kept a secret. Before D-Day, the allies ran a covert, counterintelligence operation called Bodyguard, feeding Axis spies false information about the impending invasion. Unsure of where and when the allies would land, the Nazi's could not concentrate forces, paving the way for Allied victory at Normandy. It would have been horribly unrealistic if the Marines had been able to determine the exact time and date Whitebeard planned on invading. Knowing where he planned to invade, and an approximate date was truer to real life. If you are still unconvinced, read about the Battle of Hastings, one of the most important battles in world history. Victory hinged on Harold, the Anglo-Saxon King, knowing where the Normans planned to invade, but not when. William the Conqueror crossed the channel later than Harold expected. Harold had already withdrawn his troops, allowing William an easier landing, forcing Anglo-Saxon troops to march across the country to meet the Normans. No, the Marines knowing when Whitebeard planned to attack would have been less realistic, not more realistic.

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    Re: How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    How the hell did the Marines not know when Whitebeard would arrive at Marineford?

    -All the Marines looking for Whitbeard's Crew didn't have the chance to report their location. Because they were killed.

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